Hi, I am a new 2009 Monster 1100s owner. My bike's Ohlins suspension was set up by a Ducati shop for a rider of my weight and is somewhat harsher than my 2006 CBR liter bike. The forks are set approximately 1/2 inch up from the top of the top clamp. Tires are Michelin pilot road 4 GT with lots of rubber. Pressure is 31 front and rear. The bike only has 3000 miles and the steering head bearings are as they should be.
At close to top speed there was a moment of front end wiggle. Holding the bars loosely it lasted only a second or so. All other rides have been stable over rough road, metal grates, railroad tracks, and throttle out of corners without a twitch. All instances with the front wheel off the pavement have been very stable.
I have researched the forums extensively, and have seen mixed reports on the use steering stabilizers. I like the steering performance of the bike, so I hesitate to mess with stabilizers, but
safety for myself and this beautiful bike prompts me to make a decision. My question is to my fellow 2009 Monster 1100s owners, or anyone who has knowledge of this year bike. Have you heard of any instances of serious events resulting from lack of stabilizer/dampener on this year 1100s model? Thank you for your comments!
My experience is as an ex club racer adjusting professionally modified suspension already in the ballpark due to the expertise of suspension specialists. I don't have FHE of the M1100DS, but can say that steering dampers are sometimes fitted as a panacea for suspension issues. That issue has come up here before. In your case it appears you are happy with your suspension and that you have only experienced a "wiggle" when really pushing it. A wiggle rather than a tankslapper is pretty good for a sharp steering bike. My GSXR750 track bike wiggles every lap and it has professionally set up suspension and a steering damper. It doesn't tank slap even when cresting a track straight's bump at 100mph, but gives a communicative wiggle.
You may experiment with ride heights under expert guidance otherwise a quality steering damper could give you reassurance/insurance since it appears you ride pretty hard.
Others with expertise in the area will chime in .
Oh, and welcome!
Thank you for the info. and the welcome! Will a damper make this bike less quick turning and therefore less fun to ride? I like how it reacts to body input. My CBR with the damper required more effort in the twisties.
Possibly, but I set my dampers at the minimum possible . You may find that with a little more fine tuning of the suspension that you don't need one. After consulting here I would talk again to your suspension guy. He may adjust the ride height at one end for example. A wiggle wouldn't worry me but tank slapper a are no fun.
The stability on bikes reduces as the front wheel gets light, and can be reduced even further by road surface issues.
The higher the speed, the less weight on the front.
Confirm that all of your motor mounts, subframe attach bolts, swingarm pivot pin pinch bolt, etc. are properly tight, and are *actually* pinching together the parts they're supposed to.
I've seen a motor mount bolt that was broken clean in two, but each broken piece was held in place by the frame/motor loads.
Wheel bearings front and rear, check those as well.
Hmm... just a thought:
If the front feels 'harsh' I'm wondering if the dealer gave you too much preload to get closer to standard sag numbers. 'Experts' have done this on bikes with progressive springs - resulting in harsh suspension and other negative suspension effects - including nervous behaviour on top of the suspension range.
Good thing that this theory is easy to check by yourself [thumbsup]
Quote from: Speeddog on September 30, 2018, 11:25:32 PM
The stability on bikes reduces as the front wheel gets light, and can be reduced even further by road surface issues.
The higher the speed, the less weight on the front.
Confirm that all of your motor mounts, subframe attach bolts, swingarm pivot pin pinch bolt, etc. are properly tight, and are *actually* pinching together the parts they're supposed to.
I've seen a motor mount bolt that was broken clean in two, but each broken piece was held in place by the frame/motor loads.
Wheel bearings front and rear, check those as well.
I spent time checking the aforementioned items, and all are good. The front shocks have a little clank in one spot when compressed, kind of strange, but probably normal and I don't think it would cause the issue.
Quote from: stopintime on October 01, 2018, 01:24:17 AM
Hmm... just a thought:
If the front feels 'harsh' I'm wondering if the dealer gave you too much preload to get closer to standard sag numbers. 'Experts' have done this on bikes with progressive springs - resulting in harsh suspension and other negative suspension effects - including nervous behaviour on top of the suspension range.
Good thing that this theory is easy to check by yourself [thumbsup]
"
"Good thing that this theory is easy to check by yourself" This is beyond my level of competence! I guess I will need to try and find a suspension expert to help me with preload, compression, sag, and ride height.
[thumbsup]
It might help if you elaborated a little upon your description of the problem.
You have wound the bike up to somewhere near its top speed, and for a moment the handlebars wiggle.
"Holding the bars loosely it lasted only a second or so."
It is not transparently obvious that a solution is required.
Quote from: Moronic on October 02, 2018, 09:05:53 PM
It might help if you elaborated a little upon your description of the problem.
You have wound the bike up to somewhere near its top speed, and for a moment the handlebars wiggle.
"Holding the bars loosely it lasted only a second or so."
It is not transparently obvious that a solution is required.
"It is not transparently obvious that a solution is required." This is exactly the the information I wanted to get from the experts. If this is a normal occurrence to have a little bar shake when pushing the envelope, then I am fine with it. I just want the experts opinion if the bike is safe as it is. I never had an instance like this with my CBR, so I am on the learning curve here. I don't know what more information I can give except a smooth level road surface. If there is any further information i can give about the bike setup, I will try to get that for you.
Quote from: Monster09 on October 02, 2018, 08:15:04 PM
"
"Good thing that this theory is easy to check by yourself" This is beyond my level of competence! I guess I will need to try and find a suspension expert to help me with preload, compression, sag, and ride height.
It's not [thumbsup] Turn the preload adjusters (check the manual) out/counter clockwise a large number of turns. You could start by turning them all the way out (to where they stop) to calculate where they were set by the dealer. Getting them back is easy as you now know where they were. Once you have turned them all the way out, you'll no longer think it's difficult.
Check out this tutorial;
http://www.gostar-racing.com/club/motorcycle_suspension_set-up.htm
I found this page back when the world was young, the inter web new and a Honda NC30 lived in my garage. I've used it to set up all sorts of bikes and found it pretty consistent. If I can do it, anyone with a screwdriver, adjustable spanner and C-spanner can do it: if it doesn't work for you it's cost you nothing. Good luck, take your time and become familiar with your local constant-radius corners. Oh, and a good steering damper won't slow the steering, it'll stop it getting too fast. If it slows it, it's set too firm. If you need it set too firm you've got other issues.
Quote from: GeorgeA on October 03, 2018, 04:47:39 AM
Check out this tutorial;
http://www.gostar-racing.com/club/motorcycle_suspension_set-up.htm
I found this page back when the world was young, the inter web new and a Honda NC30 lived in my garage. I've used it to set up all sorts of bikes and found it pretty consistent. If I can do it, anyone with a screwdriver, adjustable spanner and C-spanner can do it: if it doesn't work for you it's cost you nothing. Good luck, take your time and become familiar with your local constant-radius corners. Oh, and a good steering damper won't slow the steering, it'll stop it getting too fast. If it slows it, it's set too firm. If you need it set too firm you've got other issues.
Wow, this is great. Lots of information. Thank you for the link! I have some reading and adjustments to make.
Quote from: Monster09 on October 02, 2018, 11:02:32 PM
If this is a normal occurrence to have a little bar shake when pushing the envelope, then I am fine with it. I just want the experts opinion if the bike is safe as it is. I never had an instance like this with my CBR, so I am on the learning curve here. I don't know what more information I can give except a smooth level road surface. If there is any further information i can give about the bike setup, I will try to get that for you.
Am I right in thinking that the CBR has a full fairing, and handlebars that offer less leverage on the steering? Plus a headlight mounted in the fairing rather than on the fork tubes, and mirrors mounted on the fairing rather than on the handlebars.
The rider on the Monster is hung out in the breeze. It is hard to avoid small inputs to the steering when hanging on, even loosely, at high speed. Turbulence around the mirrors would tend to amplify these. And the headlamp acts like a pendulum hung off the front.
Hypersports bikes are built for very high speeds; Monsters not so much.
Because the tyre stabilised the wobble quickly when left to itself, it sounds to me like all is good.
But I've ridden only a short distance on that particular model, and not at very high speed.
I am a little bit bothered by your description of the fork action as "harsher" than the Honda fork. The Ohlins fork may well supply a bit more feedback than the Honda fork but "harsher" makes me wonder whether the legs still have the proper Ohlins fluid in them or whether that has been swapped for something stickier.
However, you say the front end has been stable in all other conditions, and that suggests the fork fluid is good.
Quote from: Moronic on October 04, 2018, 05:52:46 AM
Am I right in thinking that the CBR has a full fairing, and handlebars that offer less leverage on the steering? Plus a headlight mounted in the fairing rather than on the fork tubes, and mirrors mounted on the fairing rather than on the handlebars.
The rider on the Monster is hung out in the breeze. It is hard to avoid small inputs to the steering when hanging on, even loosely, at high speed. Turbulence around the mirrors would tend to amplify these. And the headlamp acts like a pendulum hung off the front.
Hypersports bikes are built for very high speeds; Monsters not so much.
Because the tyre stabilised the wobble quickly when left to itself, it sounds to me like all is good.
But I've ridden only a short distance on that particular model, and not at very high speed.
I am a little bit bothered by your description of the fork action as "harsher" than the Honda fork. The Ohlins fork may well supply a bit more feedback than the Honda fork but "harsher" makes me wonder whether the legs still have the proper Ohlins fluid in them or whether that has been swapped for something stickier.
However, you say the front end has been stable in all other conditions, and that suggests the fork fluid is good.
What I was thinking.
Quote from: Moronic on October 04, 2018, 05:52:46 AM
Am I right in thinking that the CBR has a full fairing, and handlebars that offer less leverage on the steering? Plus a headlight mounted in the fairing rather than on the fork tubes, and mirrors mounted on the fairing rather than on the handlebars.
The rider on the Monster is hung out in the breeze. It is hard to avoid small inputs to the steering when hanging on, even loosely, at high speed. Turbulence around the mirrors would tend to amplify these. And the headlamp acts like a pendulum hung off the front.
Hypersports bikes are built for very high speeds; Monsters not so much.
Because the tyre stabilised the wobble quickly when left to itself, it sounds to me like all is good.
But I've ridden only a short distance on that particular model, and not at very high speed.
I am a little bit bothered by your description of the fork action as "harsher" than the Honda fork. The Ohlins fork may well supply a bit more feedback than the Honda fork but "harsher" makes me wonder whether the legs still have the proper Ohlins fluid in them or whether that has been swapped for something stickier.
However, you say the front end has been stable in all other conditions, and that suggests the fork fluid is good.
This totally makes sense. After thinking about your explanation, I thought of an additional factor. The CBR has a much larger windscreen. I am sure the function of aerodynamics on the windscreen loads the front end keeping the front wheel planted. The conclusion I have come to then, the bike was not designed to do what I asked of it. To think I can ride it like the CBR is false thinking on my part. This is such a simple explanation of the issue it is a little embarrassing on my part. I am still going to check the suspension settings more carefully, but considering the stable nature of the bike at speeds it was designed for, I think I will not need a steering damper. Thank you for your help
Glad to be of assistance. Let us know how things go after you have some more miles up.
Your assessment of the two bikes sounds about right to me, and you may well be on to something with respect to the windscreen.
But I would offer a subtly different emphasis.
Different bikes are optimised for different conditions. It is not so much that the Monster was not designed to do what you asked of it, IMO. More that it was not designed primarily to do what you asked of it. It was not designed with high-speed riding as a big priority. (Compare with, say, the Panigale.)
You can still ride at high speeds but you won't get as much help from the bike.
Do look into the suspension and set-up. Ducatis tend to be quite sensitive to small changes - a good thing if you like tuning your bike.
The fork fluid may well be overdue for replacement (again, I would recommend paying for the Ohlins fluid as that is what the fork was set up for). I don't know how well the stock Ohlins shock works on your model, but there could be gains available here also from valve or spring adjustments.
In case it helps, my older-style Monster (with tuned suspension) feels perfectly stable at speeds up to the performance limit of your 1100 and beyond. But I'm not coming straight from a hypersports - I have low expectations. ;)
Edit: one other thing you might think about checking some time is the wheel balance. If this is a little bit out, it will show up more at high speeds.
Do you know what weight Ohlins oil to use. The manual that comes with the bike says Shell 7.5. I assume that means 7.5 weight. Ohlins oil comes in 5 and 10 weight.
Maybe you can suggest where to to find a shop manual for the bike. Thanks again for the help.
Quote from: Monster09 on October 03, 2018, 10:49:31 AM
Wow, this is great. Lots of information. Thank you for the link! I have some reading and adjustments to make.
Here to help :)
Quote from: Monster09 on October 05, 2018, 07:39:35 PM
Do you know what weight Ohlins oil to use. The manual that comes with the bike says Shell 7.5. I assume that means 7.5 weight. Ohlins oil comes in 5 and 10 weight.
Maybe you can suggest where to to find a shop manual for the bike. Thanks again for the help.
Almost certain you want the five-weight: Part 1309-01.
Likely Ohlins USA could confirm.
Can't help with a shop manual for the bike, but Ohlins offers downloadable manuals for a bunch of its forks here: https://www.ohlins.com/support/manuals/motorcycle/owners-manuals/
These are for its aftermarket forks. They don't offer anything specifically referencing OEM forks. I picked a few and they all recommended "1309-01 only".
Quote from: Moronic on October 06, 2018, 11:50:39 PM
Almost certain you want the five-weight: Part 1309-01.
Likely Ohlins USA could confirm.
Can't help with a shop manual for the bike, but Ohlins offers downloadable manuals for a bunch of its forks here: https://www.ohlins.com/support/manuals/motorcycle/owners-manuals/
These are for its aftermarket forks. They don't offer anything specifically referencing OEM forks. I picked a few and they all recommended "1309-01 only".
The rain has set in here in the US Northwest and threatens to last. It may be a while before I can get back on with the results. Thanks again!