2002, Monster S4.
Had been running fine, engine wise for quite a while as in years.
Did some electrical work, added a new horn and new wiring for improving headlight performance. This was done thru a kit from Easter Beaver. I AM NOT SAYING THE KIT DID THIS. I disconnected battery fully every time I was doing work.
Back to current issue. As shown in the video running first gear at 7k rpm and then start sputtering and finally dies off. I can keep her on by giving some gas and then she comes back. Same thing with 2nd gear but at times it stays alive.
The main switch (30A) fuse did give up about two years ago. I replaced it and looked at it when I was doing the electrical work recently. one end looked burned but the fuse was still good. Just and FYI.
Thanks.
Video link below, forgot how to embed
https://youtu.be/PMxGtRT3un0
If you stay under 7k are there still issues or is it as bad? Anyway, I'm thinking either fuel contamination or a clogged fuel filter. While in there check the hoses.
at first it was only at 7k rpm but now it was happening at a larger range
I hope and think fuel lines and filter are culprits. My Gas cap/lock mechanism looks horribly corroded.
I have already replaced the cap with a used one but think it is time to do it right. Maybe even try and fix my non working low fuel light.
Open gas cap
Put hand over opening
Turn key on
If your hand gets sprayed with gas, there are problems inside the tank.
If not, look inside and see if the plumbing inside is leaking while the pump runs.
Electrically, looks good, no stuff loose and cleaned the fuse box, replaced fuses, and then re-replaced the old ones LOL
Why?
Because I was paranoid and the new ones looked like there were the same (except for color) ; were rated for different Amps. thus different colors
Looked again today and saw it was mostly my in my head the above.
Back to the tank:
The fuel filter looks corroded/stained from the outside of the filter; it was dangling inside the tank and I positioned it back onto the holder.
A breather hose was broken; I cut it and reattached. Now the engine runs but dies within 5 seconds. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND.
Will keep looking at the tank and see what else might be wrong with the tank, figure next step is draining tank.
The breather hose is one of the two that hooks up to the top of the gas cap. Doubt it was this that was making the sputtering.
(http:///%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EWhy?%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EBecause%20I%20was%20paranoid%20and%20the%20new%20ones%20looked%20like%20there%20were%20the%20same%20(except%20for%20color)%20and%20were%20obviously%20rated%20for%20different%20Amps.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3ELooked%20again%20today%20and%20saw%20it%20was%20mostly%20my%20in%20my%20head%20the%20above.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EBack%20to%20the%20tank:%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EThe%20fuel%20filter%20looks%20corroded/stained%20from%20the%20outside%20of%20the%20filter;%20it%20was%20dangling%20inside%20the%20tank%20and%20I%20positioned%20it%20back%20onto%20the%20holder.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EA%20breather%20hose%20was%20broken;%20I%20cut%20it%20and%20reattached.%20Now%20the%20engine%20runs%20but%20dies%20within%205%20seconds.%20I%20DO%20NOT%20UNDERSTAND.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EWill%20keep%20looking%20at%20the%20tank%20and%20see%20what%20else%20might%20be%20wrong%20with%20the%20tank,%20figure%20next%20step%20is%20draining%20tank.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EThe%20breather%20hose%20is%20one%20of%20the%20two%20that%20hooks%20up%20to%20the%20top%20of%20the%20gas%20cap.%20Doubt%20it%20was%20this%20that%20was%20making%20the%20sputtering.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%5Bimg%5DElectrically,%20looks%20good,%20no%20stuff%20loose%20and%20cleaned%20the%20fuse%20box,%20replaced%20fuses,%20and%20then%20replaced%20the%20old%20ones%20LOL%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EWhy?%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EBecause%20I%20was%20paranoid%20and%20the%20new%20ones%20looked%20like%20there%20were%20the%20same%20(except%20for%20color)%20and%20were%20obviously%20rated%20for%20different%20Amps.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3ELooked%20again%20today%20and%20saw%20it%20was%20mostly%20my%20in%20my%20head%20the%20above.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EBack%20to%20the%20tank:%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EThe%20fuel%20filter%20looks%20corroded/stained%20from%20the%20outside%20of%20the%20filter;%20it%20was%20dangling%20inside%20the%20tank%20and%20I%20positioned%20it%20back%20onto%20the%20holder.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EA%20breather%20hose%20was%20broken;%20I%20cut%20it%20and%20reattached.%20Now%20the%20engine%20runs%20but%20dies%20within%205%20seconds.%20I%20DO%20NOT%20UNDERSTAND.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EWill%20keep%20looking%20at%20the%20tank%20and%20see%20what%20else%20might%20be%20wrong%20with%20the%20tank,%20figure%20next%20step%20is%20draining%20tank.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3EThe%20breather%20hose%20is%20one%20of%20the%20two%20that%20hooks%20up%20to%20the%20top%20of%20the%20gas%20cap.%20Doubt%20it%20was%20this%20that%20was%20making%20the%20sputtering.%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%5Bimg%5Dhttps://i.imgur.com/oQ5KRJE.jpg)
When was the last time the filter was replaced?
Rusty filter points to two areas:
Filter is old.
Filter has seen water. Bikes do not run on water.
See my first reply, and also Speedog's
dang,
Filter replaced about 5 years ago.
I have ridden in rain but not recently, not within 1 year and have done 4 tank fills in last month before acting up.
But the water makes sense or at least very hi humidity which also makes sense and then condensing in tank.
Did the hand spray test, no spray.
Did you look inside while the pump's running to see if there's anything unusual ?
Sorry for the thread jack: I have an intermittent flat spot/bog on my 01' S4 at 6-7k. Mostly under hard acceleration. Considering checking and changing the fuel filter. Did a little searching and can't find basics on this process. I'm guessing I have to take the tank off the bike and remove the innards to get to the filter. Am I correct?
I will post pics with which line is which (breather hoses ( one is overflow (breather #2) and other is a breather hose that partly seals when the fuel cap is closed(breather #1)))
Also the M(FEED) and the R(RETURN) (M is the furthest back in S4 02, I checked it by blowing on the outlet of fuel filter and seeing which spicket blew air)
my (what I am calling overflow ) is very very clogged.
I see how the tank not breather might not allow for fuel pump to suck as it would then create negative pressure IF the tank were to be sealed.
Also the clogged was probably caused by the corroded/degraded fuel cap and the corrosion going into the OVERFLOW Feed.
I will do pictures with labels but below is some pics to get a gist.
I would love to remove my low fuel sensor and attempt at fix it but seems partly stuck. Also the tank was more dirty inside than I would like..
within imgur I have a description of each spicket/nozzle.
First pic:
8 o-clock (overflow breather 2, 5 o'clock with rubber top overflow breather 1
(https://i.imgur.com/d1fIi3p.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EY1Z6l0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/m2bdOMV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xXoU4Tr.jpg)
So here is pics labeled.
I do not see how that clogged breather is the immediate cause of my sputtering, if is, can you guys help me understand?
Still loosing the grudge in the line but filling line with fuel and little by little stabbing it with a cable tie.
(https://i.imgur.com/JyKQJwB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vQqM5OD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BMFzlku.jpg)
Quote from: GregP on May 24, 2020, 06:24:59 AM
Sorry for the thread jack: I have an intermittent flat spot/bog on my 01' S4 at 6-7k. Mostly under hard acceleration. Considering checking and changing the fuel filter. Did a little searching and can't find basics on this process. I'm guessing I have to take the tank off the bike and remove the innards to get to the filter. Am I correct?
Naw, just remove the fuel cap and the cap base, see pic below.
No need to remove the tank nor drain it.
(https://i.imgur.com/NSbMsp6.jpg)
Clogged breather will cause fuel starvation since a vacuum will result as fuel leaves the tank, but air cannot enter. Bet that filter is clogged too.
Quote from: howie on May 24, 2020, 03:54:55 PM
Clogged breather will cause fuel starvation since a vacuum will result as fuel leaves the tank, but air cannot enter. Bet that filter is clogged too.
makes sense but I tried starting the bike and running it with the fuel cap open and still died. Unless I also do not understand how the breather #1 works which seems to be semi "closed " when the fuel cap is closed. When the fuel cap is closed there is a black tab, with a little pee hole, that cover the "black tube" on breather #1. Meaning when the cap is open breather #1 does not perform its function properly.
Yeah... lol... that filter had some much in it but I was able to blow thru it both ways/sides.
Fuel pump is 18 yo, can you check how much pressure it's generating?
The tube that is plugged with rust is the cap area drain. It got that way from a crimped rubber hose under the tank which caused water to sit inside the tube and rust. It won't cause sputtering.
What it will do is to allow rain water into the tank if the bike sits in the rain and the cap area fills with water. It can be cleared with a piece of wire. It's very time consuming, usually requires some phosphoric acid, and ingenuity. Tank should be removed so you can work from both ends.
Be careful not to break the wire off in the tube. Then you're screwed.
Have you changed the filter yet? A filter that will pass low pressure fluid often will not flow enough at high pressure.
Quote from: ducpainter on May 25, 2020, 04:04:44 AM
The tube that is plugged with rust is the cap area drain. It got that way from a crimped rubber hose under the tank which caused water to sit inside the tube and rust. It won't cause sputtering.
What it will do is to allow rain water into the tank if the bike sits in the rain and the cap area fills with water. It can be cleared with a piece of wire. It's very time consuming, usually requires some phosphoric acid, and ingenuity. Tank should be removed so you can work from both ends.
Be careful not to break the wire off in the tube. Then you're screwed.
Have you changed the filter yet? A filter that will pass low pressure fluid often will not flow enough at high pressure.
sweet!! makes sense.
have not ordered filter and other parts yet.
Water sitting on top makes sense, thanks.
The fuel sensor, is it pulled from the bottom? Will try and fix or maybe/maybe order the new one [thumbsdown] $200 some odd dollars
Fuel sensor comes out the bottom. There is no repairable part in them to the best of my knowledge. It's electronic, not a float.
NAPA sells a filter that works great...NAPA 3032. Buy a length of fuel hose at the same time...H209. Do not use any substitute. The ethanol will eat them.
You can get H315 to replace the rotted vent hoses. It is the 1/4" equivalent. You might need clamps as the Ducati tubes are ~5mm.
cracked the casing of the low fuel sensor, I was being super slow and smooth. IT WAS STUCK, been at it for over 4 hours, breaks in between unclogging the breather line..
Not sure I can fix and take the chance of it braking when re installing the low fuel sensor, I can tell from the inside that the crack goes up to where the power wires exit..
Been also cleaning the tank, flushing with fuel and then getting the little dirt out; the walls are partly white and get powdery when touched.
(https://i.imgur.com/6nGc61p.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xSeXazr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Z0VmK0T.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1v60DGa.jpg)
For now, use a kit to clean and seal the inside of the tank
Continue to unclog the breather line ( will try carb cleaner to spray in side)
Will play with the low fuel sensor but will very likely order a new one; looks like when the low fuel light when out it was b/c it was cracked bu the pump wires were still good enough for the pump.
Pretty sure it was not me who cracked the fuel sensor [clap]
(https://i.imgur.com/2vXup6T.jpg)
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=75429.0
Quote from: Speeddog on May 28, 2020, 05:50:21 PM
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=75429.0
jaja thanks
deja vu
I 'll be getting a new fuel sender. I'll keep an eye out as to what causes the swelling.
Maybe once a year do a sender inspection.
Probably the water/fuel mixture... ;)
First one went 18 years. You may not own the bike by 2036... I don't know that I would bother routine inspections.
Quote from: Duck-Stew on May 30, 2020, 01:27:30 AM
First one went 18 years. You may not own the bike by 2036... I don't know that I would bother routine inspections.
If I still own her in 2036, I will know I am a masochist jeje
the clogged breather hose is about 20 inches long. From the bottom I have "freed" about 6 inches and from the top about 4 inches.
Still working on it.
besides using a wire to bang on the grout I have used following chemicals.
-1/2 water 1/2 white vinigar
-BP rust blaster
-VapoRust
Flush the line with also fuel to get little debris that is "liberated".
edit( the longer breather has about 2 inches left of crud [17 inch lenght], the shorter overflow is FREE and measures 16 inches)
Try some phosphoric acid.
A WIN!!!
unclogged it is!!
will do tank quick fuel clean and before going with the tank inside re coating will make sure issue is resolved!!!
phosphoric did not get to, little by little I kept flushing with previous solvents.
[thumbsup]
I forget if this is the cap area drain, or the vent for the cap.
Either way, if you run drain hoses under the tank make sure they don't kink because it will clog again, and possibly perforate from the rust causing a fuel leak,
If not running a charcoal canister, I just remove the little rubber piece under the cap as it no longer serves any purpose, and if damaged can block the cap vent.
Dont understand how the charcoal stuff works or for what it is for.
BUT
SHE runs!! well turns on and engine runs well and my low fuel level works!!!
15 minutes run
new inside tank hoses
new fuel level gauge
new fuel filter.
Breather/drain unclogged
I have not driven her yet b/c I have no foot pegs as i am resolving a rear set issue :(
lessons learned
:sputtering not the results of the breather/drain lines; ducpainter mentioned this.
:should have replaced the filter as one of the first steps of my trouble shooting
Next steps
: coat the tanks before corrosion gets me again.
or maybe set her up to just ride for 15 minutes and make sure the sputtering really is over
Thanks again guys.!!!!
It must have been the fuel filter, feel so dum yet happy [clap]
From the looks of the insides of the tank your new filter would have had a short life. If you are referring to the charcoal canister its job is to absorb gasoline fumes to later be burned in your engine. Nice idea, and required by California emissions law. In reality they are problematic on bikes and, unlike cars, party vented to atmosphere anyway.
Hi guys.
Hope you all are well and not terribly affected by COVID.
I was hoping my next thread / pic was the moto on the road but..
Read thru 4-3 threads about POR and some KBS; most seemed pre 2015.
I am using KBS kit; i have done 2 of the 3 steps (KLEAN and RUST BLAST) to the T ( KBS does not believe their instructions can be followed to the T [wine] )
KBS said (from pics i am about to show you)
Observations:
It looks like the RustBlast step was allowed to dry before being rinsed. The white zinc phosphate looks heavy.
Suggestions:
Go ahead and do Step #1 and Step #2 again. Do in the lowest humidity you have.
Do not let the RustBlast dry. Keep the surface wet on all side for at least 30 minutes per side. Then rinse immediately with water. Then dry immediately using forced air from a shop vac of something similar.
Not sure if I should just leave the tank as is and use them; I am affraid I will create more problems if the sealer does not seal properly.
The humidity in my shop/room is lest then 60%; I know it is south florida and humidity outside is 80% plus but I ran my a/c and such to keep it as low as possible, the lowest I can get is 57%.
For 45 minutes I shook each tank; had a timer and am super sore. The tank weight and 2 liters of stuff inside and shaking it is like a mini cross fit session.
I have the left over RUST BLAST but no KLEANER. If I order it, it will take a couple days.
Think these are my options from preferably to least; what you guys think.
From the other threads, it looks like some of you would go with options B.
A- re use the RUST BLAST (KBS said I can) and then per instructions use the KBS sealer.
B-Leave tank as is (which is clean [thumbsup] ) and leave the sealing adventure for some other time.
C- RE order the KBS KLEAN and do step A (KBS said no nead to do the KLEAN step again )
D- your suggestion if other than above.
(https://i.imgur.com/iytykXY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SKQZgcZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/aVVUNnh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8SEspXs.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dQ2K4fJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VMJkiKs.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Rti8D2x.jpg)
2nd attempt.
waiting on KBS reply to see if this is a better job.
Also, I got 6 bbs stuck in the tank. they are 1/8 of an inch LOL [bang]
Maybe they are small enough that the sealant can just seal them jejeje [popcorn]
Think I will use 8 to 12 ounces of the sealant for each tank.
Think i got a better results bc I did not spend 1 hour looking for my GF hair dryer this time.
I used a my heat gun this time [coffee]
Next time I will use bigger agitators and not 1/8 inch bbs
(https://i.imgur.com/Hre28Tp.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/m3LEOwl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZR0LmdA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wyp7GNF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wc9Clm8.jpg)
Finally!!!
30 miles riding and all is good!!!
Thanks for all the help.
Happy Holiday and new merry year.
(http://[img]https://i.imgur.com/DhV2rJh.jpg)[/img]
(http://[img]https://i.imgur.com/eCRXILR.jpg)[/img]
https://imgur.com/DhV2rJh (https://imgur.com/DhV2rJh)
https://imgur.com/eCRXILR (https://imgur.com/eCRXILR)
I will admit I did freak out bc I had some moisture in my oil BullsEye jajajaj [bang] but after light riding and warming her up, bulls eye looks new .
[thumbsup] Bike's lookin good!