Ducati Monster Forum

Earlier last winter I started dreaming of a newer, more powerful Monster. I was looking for a more current Duc model with a bit more power and maybe some tech upgrades to replace the 2001 900s. I was looking at a few models: S4R/S, 1100S and the 1100Evo. Nothing so new as to be out of my price range but new enough.  I found a 2012 1100Evo that was priced right and in really good shape.  I had it dropped off at one of the local Duc mechanic's shop that knows me and my limited wrenching skills....  [roll]  Our agreement was that I could work on it while under "adult supervision" and make some modifications, all while getting to know my new ride.  Anthony would give me direction and help me out as needed.
I had been in touch with koko64 about his experience with different Monsters and the 1100Evo specifically. He had given me a few places to source for the airbox modification [ https://www.ducati-kaemna.de/monster-796-1100-pure-tec-race-kit.html] as well as a mid-pipe/exhaust valve replacement from QD exhaust. I put a few other parts on my wish list but really tried to dial back my OCD behavior that manifested itself with my 2001 M900s project.  Trying to keep it simple this time.   I opted for a Spark C.F. high mount exhaust in addition to the Competition Werkes tail tidy /turn signal/brake lights kit and CRG bar end mounted mirrors. Obligatory fork/frame sliders, tank grips, tank protector as well as a lithium battery.  A Power Command V was also installed in anticipation of later tuning.
I found enough time to make the drive to the shop 1 or 2 days a week for 4 or 5 hours at a time.  I was very appreciative of the opportunity to work on it at Anthony's shop, using his tools, getting the benefit of his experience and upping my understanding of how my bike works and gets serviced. Just taking the tank off to access the battery was an eye-opener.
In the course of getting into the project we figured out the bike had received a full desmo service @ 15K miles but had only 400 miles put on it since the 2019 service.  Good to know.   We still went through the bike but without a valve/belt service. 
I got to watch the forks being serviced too. The 26mm valves were VERY close the Ohlins design that had been considered as a replacement for OEM, so those seemed okay. The shim stacks just looked to be in need of an adjustment to move the oil a bit more freely.
Everything was gone through, looked at, adjusted if needed, flushed and refilled, etc.
 I finally got to take it out for a spin when bringing it to the tuner, Doug Lofgren.  It was highway all the way there but the
He quickly realized the Siemens ECU would allow limited access to the AFR tuning range. Doug and koko64 had some back and forth on how the lower rpm map might be accessed or maybe try a work-around.  In the end Doug tried running the bike with a different [fatter?] set of 18mm O2 sensors but wasn't happy with the overall results. The other areas of the map were out of balance. He tuned it for 3 hours on his dyno and gave it back to me, saying here's the chart, go have fun. 
So far, I have nothing to complain about. It's just a tad rough at lower rpm is all I've been able to notice so far.  It spins up like crazy to redline in 1st and 2nd and pulls like a mother effer.
I'll hang onto the current Michelin Power Pilot tires for the season but will likely get back to Pirelli next season. The suspension feels just great so far but will see if I feel the same as miles are put on it.  I'm still getting familiar with the ABS and traction control settings.
The exhaust is running without the db killers and sends grown men running, crying out to their mommies when the throttle gets opened up. Well, not really but it does sound wicked.
Seriously it SHOULD be named the 1100Evil the way it sounds and rides. Pretty nasty for the last 2 valve model Monster. 
Anyway, somebody stop me next time my mind starts to wander......  ;D

I won't be the one stopping you  [Dolph]

An apex model of the line for sure.

Having ridden a few MTS1100's with the 1100DS motor, the motor comparison between the Marelli ECU DS and Evo is like the difference between a Subaru Liberty and WRX STI. Someone has also suggested the earlier DS 1100 Monster motor with the quick thinking Seimens Conti ECU is like the WRX while the Evo is the STI.

The lighter internals, higher compression and hotter cams of the Evo give a nasty engine character. With stock EPA mapping they can run a bit ragged at lower rpm/throttle openings. Flywheel weight can be useful at times (or an impediment at others [evil]).

Enjoy your 1100EVO  [Dolph]

The second best of the last of the 2 valve Monsters  ;)

Fightin' words right there. [laugh]

;D

Noob question of the week:

What makes the Evo different from the plain vanilla 2v air-cooled Monsters of the same era... like my '13 796 ABS?

... in the 1100cc capacity: Dual spark vs single spark EVO.  Siemens ECU vs Marelli ECU (IIRC) on EVO?  EVO has the newer style "rams horns" exhaust routing  [puke] [laugh].  Traditional dry clutch on M1100  8), wet clutch on EVO.  Different footrest hangers - EVO much nicer than the chicken wings on 696/796/non-EVO 1100...  Different fork suppliers...  Showa for M1100, Ohlins for M1100S.   Marzocchi?? for EVO??  

And some engine internal differences that I'll let Koko64 bore you with....

He Man once posted a pic of 1100DS and 1100Evo motors with the outer engine cases removed. The Evos flywheel, timing and primary gears were machined down and drilled for lightness. The Evo has a lighter alternator and I read that it has a lighter crankshaft, but not seen a comparison. The cams, ports and combustion chamber were changed on the Evo. Evo cams have more duration and lift but they aren't hot like ST2 or 900ie cams. Evo has more compression in the 11:1+ range. The Evo forks are Marzocchi. M1100DS and Evo have the quick thinking Seimens Conti ECU compared to the MTS Marelli. The manual says Siemens EFI but the ECUs have a Continental label on them. Subsidiary?
I can't say what common components are shared with the 796 motors. The Evo cams have more lift and duration, but the greater engine capacity supports that. Externally the bikes do look very similar.
The Evo motor is a last hurrah before Euro 4 or 5 killed tuned big bore air cooled motors. I note that the detuned 1100 Scrambler has a factory claimed hp similar to my old modified M900's rwhp. 
Imo, the M1100 and Evos stock exhaust look only so so, but both look great with Termis.

I kind of wondered.  I initially thought it was water cooling, but I was completely wrong on that.  I know the easy way to tell is the exhaust... which I'm not a big fan of.

FWIW, my 796 has the Continental (Siemens) ECU, the ABS may have required that.  They also cheaped out with my front forks... they were supposed to be adjustable, it even says so in the manual, but they are most definitely NOT adjustable.

I'm happy as a pig in slop that I have a 2v air-cooled Monster... although I won't lie, I envy you guys with the 1100's...   [thumbsup]

I do love the brutality of the 1100 motor. There's a sense of old school performance like a tuned old V8.
Yet people who ride my Evo comment on how smooth it is (it's carefully tuned), but now and then it surprises me with wheel spin and wheelies. I have the traction control on the minimum setting which allows controlled spin before the system catches it. On setting #1, the bike can spin up a little while upright or transitioning through a roundabout in the dry, its good fun with some protection.

Wait?  What?    T r a c t i o n   control? 

No no no  ???

 [laugh]
Traction control and ABS can be turned off. I keep the TC on the minimum and ride like its not there. I do like ABS due to the deteriorating state of our roads here. The loss of grip under braking on damaged tarmac is more of an issue than wet roads. Returning from riding in Italy in 2019 highlighted how bad Melbourne drivers are and emergency braking on crap roads in a wine region....

Took the GLW on the Evo for the first time today. I was sure she would be uncomfortable or be thrown off. How wrong was I. She was much more comfortable than on the 750 with its custom seat and lowered pillion pegs. None of the usual hip, knee and sciatic pain. Outrageous. I haven't even fitted the lower pegs yet. I was looking to sell one of my bikes and was sure the Evo would go, but it stays. [shot]

My comment was about the DTC - which I would have bet hundreds on, doesn't exist. Now I know.

Ah, yes I get it. The Ducati Safety Pack.

Although it's a old-school 2 valve engine, as koko64 has said, Ducati put some extra effort into making it lighter [by 50 lbs., claimed dry weight, over my 900] for a great power-to-weight ratio.  The Ducati Safety Pack is nice so far. I've turned off the traction control for now as I'm still getting comfortable with the bike. ABS is a bonus for sure.  Single sided swing arm adds to the more modern look/feel of the bike too. For a 2012 bike it has a lot going for it in addition to [in spite of?] that sweeeeeet old 2 valve engine.  All things considered, I think it's a pretty fair value for all that's offered.

I haven't had it out on any longer trips yet so my seat/footpeg comfort level has yet to be determined, but FFS, can't they just put an extra $50 into the seats and make them comfortable?!  Pretty much every bike I've had needed an upgrade for the "tush".

This.

Ducati "touring" seat for M1100/M796/M696 and EVO - if you can still find one is worth every penny.  Ducati p/n 96766909B.

The GLW finds the stock Evo pillion seat and pillion peg position comfortable compared to the Sargent seat and lowered pegs on my M750. I was not expecting that. I find the riders seat fine but may add an Airhawk pad due to our rapidly deteriorating roads. My bum is comfortable but my spine, kidneys and ribs take a lot of shocks from the crap road surface. There have been reports of cars and bikes suffering damaged rims around here.

I found a cheap ($39) Evo seat on eBay, it had torn vinyl, so perfect. Will give it to my upholsterer guy to build a touring/pillion comfort seat. No more cowl removal.

 [thumbsup] [beer]

No lie there.  The angle on the seat, let alone it's shape, is all wrong.  It's horrible.  Best I can get is about a 5 hours in the saddle and I'm done.  Granted, the rider position geometry has something to do with it, too... and the fact that I'm 6'2"...

Yes, the seat angle seems a bit too steep forward for my taste as I find myself "humping my tank" and need to readjust my position. The Sargent seat I found [nearly new and $75!] for the 900 works about as good as I've ever found. Nice storage tube underneath too.  Corbin seats have offered me no better than OEM comfort...... and I have spent a lot [$] on 2 of them for different bikes as well as time in the saddle. Why-O-why if after the first disappointment with Corbin did I try it again!?  [bang]

Ducati touring seat? Thanks ungehauer.  I'll keep a lookout for one.  I still haven't spent more than an hour on the bike at any one time yet but I suspect the seat might present a problem.

I'm hopeful that the footrests will be okay and will not require rearsets: my knees have not complained yet.

koko64: glad to hear that it seems you'll be keeping the 1100!  [clap]   If I found a good local seat upholstery shop that could be trusted to do a quality job I'd give the seat over to them but I've tried 2 places with the OEM 900 seat and neither result was worth a damn.

Yeah keeping the Evo atm but I see a modified 1100 Scrambler at some stage as I age, but not yet. ;D At least the Scrambler has the battery under the seat and the tank is an actual petrol tank held on with a few bolts. [bang]
The Evo is much more comfortable than the first gen Monsters (at my age). The Evo feels roomy to me but then I'm 5'8" with short legs. On a bad back day I get hump back and feel the need for more hip tilt from the seat, so I want more seat angle. It's such a personal thing.
The GLW finds the stock seat of the Evo great and yesterday we rode for two hours with no issue in the cold. It's been hitting 0 C deg overnight with very crisp days which would normally deter Mrs Koko but she enjoys the aggressive  engine performance (she has a turbo car). We can do a couple of hours of back roads in the afternoon without aches and pains. My pillion in a million reports that the pillion seat to peg relationship is better than the first gen Monster. Mind you 20-30 years ago we found sports bikes comfy.
The bike handles better with the stock seat verses the low seat I tried. The stock seat puts more rider weight over the front wheel so I went back to it. The difference in handling and front tyre feedback was substantial ime.

That's the exact phrase I use.  "Smashing the plumbing" is another... as the shape of the factory seat seems to funnel you right down in there.

I agree on the Corbin seats... they were all the rage in the '80's and '90's for aftermarket seats, but I 'test sat' a few of them on different bikes and I didn't like the feel of them, so never sprang for one (for my CBR1000F.)

I would agree, Sargent made a much more comfortable seat than Corbin imo.

I'm practising riding the Evo slow. It takes quite an adjustment to cruise around on it that way. 1/4 throttle at 40, 50 and 60 mph using 3rd, 4th and 5th gears, just riding the torque, keeping the noise down and using good throttle control. I would say the PC O2 Optimiser helps smooth things out in that throttle/rev range. So different from the canyon riding..

Well... you're no fun.

 [Dolph]

It's no mean feat! [laugh]

Lowering footpegs makes wonders for comfort.
Just sayin ( had my first pension payment 3 weeks ago…).  :D

I hear you brother. ;D

There is a parts swap for my bike... retrofitting 1100 footpegs to the 696/796.  It gets rid of the 'chicken wings' and actually moves the pegs slightly down and forward (if memory serves.)  I have the parts in the garage, setting in a box.  Maybe I'll rethink giving it a try... 

One of the less important changes I've noticed is how much easier it is for me to lift the rear wheel with the single sided swing arm vs. the box style swing arm on the 2001. Maybe it's the type of rear lift I purchased for the 900 [Viper] that makes it a little trickier to lift the rear without someone to steady the bike? I can do it but it usually makes me a bit nervous, visualizing the bike tipping over..... :'(   With the 1100 it's just a breeze with no one else around.

koko, I'll consider the PC O2 optimizer once I get more saddle time in and see how the bike feels. It's great to have an option for the lower RPMs if needed.  I THINK Doug did a pretty solid tune to the engine in spite of the limited ECU mapping access.   

Any hard facts, tests, links to verify this?!?

Yeah, just a quicker processing computer to the previous . I can't find the article, but it's stuff IT folk understand. Riding both backs it up imo. Just incremental progress. The Marelli works fine on the MTS. I really like a well tuned MTS motor. If you're tall and fit the Spanish facelift kit they're nearly perfect.

"Spanish facelift kit" ?

Link?

https://dragontt.com/producto/front-fairing-multistrada-bi-light/

Look up DragonTT . Big improvement.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dragontt+multistrada&oq=dragontt+multistrada&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.10520j0j4&client=tablet-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

There's a kit using the stock "depressed Cyclops " headlight and another with twin headlights.

You mean swapping M1100 EVO footpeg hangers to replace the original chicken wings?  I say this coz - just to be clear - M696/M796 and M1100 all share the same fugly OEM chicken wings.   

Be aware that if you do that mod.... you'll have no way to carry a pillion without also providing some other mods to facilitate mounting passenger footpegs.  Replacing the stock M696/796/1100 rear subframe with EVO subframe is one way....   If you search around this place RAUX found some underseat passenger peg hangers for his 696 which would also did the trick (but all the chatter about that stuff was a decade ago, so I forget who the manufacturer was).

Yes... my bad.  It's been a few years since I rounded up the parts.  It also requires a minor relocation of the rear brake reservoir.  It does, indeed, take away the passenger pegs... but I'm not worried about that.

I work w digital sound consoles so l know of latency.
We’re talking latency around 10 milliseconds or less.
Noticeable on a MC?

Just like computers, storage, and memory, I'll bet automotive processors have benefited from newer tech.  As more and more functions are handled by the ECU, like ABS and other functions, I'm sure there was a need for faster processors.

I only know how to turn the things on. ;D
Iirc I have read that the Conti ECU supports extra sensors managing engine response and part throttle acceleration. Makes the throttle very crisp (and some say harder to ride).

 Just finished a job on a M1000S. The weight difference is very noticeable compared to the Evo. Sometimes one needs a reminder as to just how light they are.

Really interesting.

http://www.proservice.se/monster%20project.html

Okay THAT is pretty interesting.

I just had the chance to spend 7 hours in the saddle today.  GREAT bike [waaay too fun] , f-ing terrible seat.  It has got to go.

It's amazing how seats and ergos are such a personal thing. I really like the seat.

Yes....it does seem amazing.  My butt still hurt hours after getting off the bike. A number of times I found myself either standing on the foot pegs while rolling or slightly lifting myself off the bike at stops. The lunch and petrol breaks were welcomed.  The roads, scenery and scents of the rolling green farm fields almost made me forget about my arse.  I put about 280 miles or so on the bike. The Mississippi River Valley/Lake Pepin area between Minnesota and Wisconsin is just outstanding. A good mix of tight twisty roads, long sweeping curves, a few long straightaways. I found some sweet new roads too.

There's a Ducati Performance Comfort Seat for sale on DMF that sounds like a fair buy @ $200+ shipping but I have no idea if it'll fit my 1100 Evil ~ [evil]:

https://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=79367.0#:~:text=https%3A//imgur.com/a/7xWrKTo

I looked around the internet and the best price for the Sargent seat would run about $500 w/shipping.

Looks like an earlier gen seat. What does the dealer have for 696, 796,1100, Evo? I'm thinking DP comfort seat 96766909B.
Cost less than a Sargent?

Thanks for the heads-up on fitment.  I'll check with a dealer and see what they have. 

So does the same seat will work for a 696, 796, 1100 and Evo models? [#96766909B]

The DP book  for 2011 says 696, 796, 1100/S. I know the 696 seat fits an Evo.

Cool. Thank you as always.  I sent an email to 1 dealer in Nebraska to see what they might have. I'm going to reach out another on the east coast.

You might try AMS in Dallas... they have a lot of stuff.

Done.  Thanks Charlie98.  No word from Ducati of Omaha.

I e-mailed you a link to a DP comfort seat for sale.

Thank you koko64!!!.  I've reached out but he has a sale pending.  Ducati of Omaha and AMS in Dallas both had nothing to offer.

I found a Sargent seat that will fit. It's in good nick and at a fair price.  My concern is that it's the lower seat height model: lower height = less padding = less comfort?   My 900 has a standard height Sargent and is just grand.

Anyone have a lower height Sargent experience?

The Sargent Low Seat uses 1 inch less padding.     :-\

I wondered about the 'low' seats... it's not like there's a whole lot of fluff built into it in the first place... and you ain't moving those frame members.

I think I snagged the Ducati Performance Comfort seat off of Facebook.  It should be here by the 16th. [thanks koko!   [clap]]   I have a Dynojet Optimizer on order as well, from Italy.  Hopefully the installation will help with the lower RPM roughness, back-firing and maybe a be a bit quicker out of the gate.

I found an open-box Givi small-size tank bag and mounting rings for a fair price and, wow, is it nice to get at least a bit of storage on the bike.

I was SO tired of carrying my opera glasses and harmonica collection around in my pockets.

...fwiw:  The Duc Performance seat is  ......... better than OEM but not by a ton. It's not "all day comfort" to my thinking but I'll take it. I don't think it's as comfortable as a Sargent but to each his/her own.
I received the 02 Optimizer, installed it and, meh, didn't really notice much difference. 
I picked up some bar risers that gave me a bit more upright position that took the pressure off of my hands, from leaning over, on longer rides. I like it a bunch.
After squeezing 4 nice long rides in this fall, I just put the bikes away for the winter today.  I think I managed to put just short of 2300 miles between the 3 bikes this season, 1700 on the Evil.  It's the most riding I've done in years. I REALLY enjoyed it this season.
I managed to F-ING DROP my Honda 1100 Aero as I was putting it away.  [roll]   [clap]  Stupid old man move did it to me but nothing major. $30 plus and hour or so of work will get it right again.
Overall I LOVE this 1100 Evil.  I'm glad for my wondering mind ..... mostly.

Pity the O2 Optimiser didn't make more difference. It really fixed the rough low rpm running on my bike and gave both smoothness and greater response. The difference was marked. However, saying an Evo1100 is smooth is a relative term. A customer with a stocker remarks how smooth and responsive my bike is in the closed loop range. If you want to sell it I can ask him if he wants to buy it from you.

koko64 ~ Thanks for the offer but, after all the hassle of getting one I think I'll just leave it on. It's the 2nd or 3rd LEAST expensive mod that's been done to the bike and it's not hurting anything either. I just expected to feel something more in the low RPM.  The bike does have some really nice roll-on grunt over 60 MPH. It makes me grin.

Cheers!

There were US and Euro spec ECUs and I wonder if there were US and Euro spec O2 Optimisers to suit.
It may not be the case, just conjecture on my part. My reasoning is that a US version may trick a little more as the US maps have been leaner. It may not make a difference and maybe only one Optimizer exists. It has crossed my mind.

I was talking with Doug Lofgren a few weeks ago and he mentioned that some proprietary software for the 1100 Evil ECU might be coming his way. If so, he would have access to all the mapping and would be able to do a serious tune on the bike.
My fingers are crossed it comes his way.  I told him I'd start putting some $ aside for him.

That would be a great outcome. You can be sure he'll get the best possible hp result and driveability with the mods on your bike.