Ducati Monster Forum

Evil steve posted this piece of advice, "when you stop learning, stop riding" on another thread about "best riding tips" and it got me thinking.  Do you learn something new every time you go out riding? 

Give an example of some of the skills or techniques you have picked up recently or improved upon during your last ride.   [coffee]

Misti

Well 'every time' might be a bit much... But the idea's sound. 

I've been working on being more systematic and smooth on my turn entries this year, and body position as it relates to that as well.  Basically trying to put into practice what I've studied in Lee Parks book, into practice. 

This is an on going process, so I can't really say I've picked it up yet.. and at every stage I'll still have room for improvement.  But hey that's learning a little each time.

Last night I discovered I could do a U-turn even tighter than I had previously thought...was trying to avoid going both up and down a major elevation change due to roadwork (all my usual routes are currently ripped to shreds), but I really wanted to get to that gas station.

Even MotoGP guys are constantly trying to improve their riding.  Every improvement you make to your riding increases your chances of surviving on the street - better reactions, tigher turns, faster stops, etc.  Why wouldn't you want to improve?  "Good enough to get by" mentality is generally about the worst way to approach a problem.

As long as I'm riding for pleasure rather than racing or something, I don't believe that there is an infinite amount of things to learn.

My goal when riding, besides enjoying the ride, is to have no close calls and to make no obvious mistakes.  I haven't had any close calls for years now and mistakes are quite rare, and usually rather minor.  I've reached the point where I can pick good lines and set a good speed for every corner that I take.  I can handle just about any road condition that I encounter, including all kinds of gravel, animals in the road, unpredictable traffic, and so on.

It's rare anymore that I learn something new, but I'm still working on perfecting my riding.  I still read and reread riding books.  I went through A Twist Of The Wrist II less than six months ago.  Most of the things in there I already know how to do.  Other things, like from the chapter that suggested pushing on the outside peg and inside bar to get more leverage did nothing to improve my riding.  I tried it for about 30 miles of tight twisties and rejected it as something that isn't going to improve my riding in any way.  I can already get the bike tipped into a corner as fast as I need to.

I find no need whatsoever to get any faster.  I don't believe I can go much faster on the street and still be safe, and I have no interest in track riding.

During the coming year, I'll be rereading Proficient Motorcycling, More Proficient Motorcycling, and Total Control.  I might even buy one or two other books on the subject as well.

But I still claim that after more than three decades of riding, I'm not regularly learning new things anymore.  Maybe it's time to get a new bike...

Have to chime in with Scott here.   To me it's more a time and place thing though.   I have lots left to learn, and I'll be taking more classes to do that.

But not every ride.

Unless you count learning as things like learning how to ignore the asshole who cut you off to continue to enjoy your ride, or learning where that road goes that you never turned off onto before, or learning how the sandwichs are at the dive you allways drive past but never stopped into, or learning that the patch of pavement on your favorite stretch of road got worse over last winter and hasn't been patched well, etc. etc.

Most of us are not trying to be proffesionals, just profficient at a hobby.  Some rides are just for fun and done at a pace where the learning done is about environment and life, not about vehicle control.

But life lessons are everyday whether I ride or not so that's not motorcycle related by default.

So you could expand that to be a profound drunken statement of when you stop learning, stop living.

+1000,000,000

Actually, the profound statement would be that if you stop learning then you have also stopped living. 

I would agree with maybe not learning on every ride.  I guess my view is a bit clouded by how new to riding I am.  Maybe when I'm 60 I won't be learning anymore, either. 

The way I see it, learning is linked to concentration and awareness. If you don't learn something (to paraphrase a little) about your environment, the bike or yourself you've stopped paying attention. The environment in which you ride is constantly changing. Traffic flow changes through the year, time of day & weather changes. A corner that used to have a small dip in it now has a large dip that you really can't ride through at the same speed. These are the small things you might learn every week. One of the things I learnt and am still trying to put into solidify in my mind is that riding fast anywhere usually puts you behind slower traffic. The application of "The Pace" has a direct effect on how much I enjoy my ride. This is aside from all the techniques that I may know but not do as well as I could. Do I corner exactly the same way on both sides? Are there particular situations where I'm uncomfortable? if so, why? Can I learn to deal with it?

What Scott & Chris are saying is true, you don't learn big things every day but I'm constantly in the process of learning to do things better as well as discovering and assimilating new information.

I like the last line here, that maybe you don't learn huge things every day but you constantly learn to do things better and utilize new information.  I know that each time I am on the track I might find one new reference point or I might look a little further ahead or I might find a slightly better line than before and though they aren't huge things they do better my riding.  For me the biggest changes come with my visual skills, I pick up more reference points, or I widen my vision a bit or I don't target fixate so much.  For everyone, the little things they might learn or pick up or work on might be different but I think it's good if you can improve a little bit each and every ride.

Misti

 :) Misti - I like this thread you started.   [thumbsup]

I just thought I would share some advice my Grandfather gave me when I started riding many years ago.  He used to race Indian motorcycles on a dirt track at the Cotton Bowl here in Dallas. His advice was simple and I often hear it when I find myself "zoning out" on a long ride and getting too autopilot comfortable.  He said, " As soon as you think you know everything there is to know about riding a motorcycle watch out!, because soon you will wind up on the pavement!"

This was his way of saying don't get too cocky & keep your head focused on every ride! The easiest way to do this is "keep learning" because you stay humble & concentrating !   [moto]

Good topic. I started riding again in 2001 after a decade hiatus and decided to take a much more proactive approach to my riding. I have read everything I can get my hands on about riding technique at least twice, some like Twist of the Wrist I and II get read every spring. I spend a lot of my energy on trying to be smooth and relaxed so I have time to concentrate on moving  my survival reactions to a speed outside of my normal pace so I can respond effectively to the unexpected. One example is I do brake drills on the street leading to my house on every ride, it came in handy a couple weeks ago when I came around a high speed sweeper to find 4 deer in the middle of the road. 

The last time I threw a leg over, it was the session after my ZOMGMYTHROTTLEISSTUCKOPEN crash.  I learned a huge lesson.  Riding really does make pain go away.  Wait, no, it does, but that wasn't the lesson.  It was a lesson in forcing myself to relax and just how to do that.  Aaron Stevenson was my instructor for that session and he would go sailing by me to give me the "screwdriver hands" reminder.  Forcing myself to get into that position helped me relax so much.  For some reason, when my face is in the right place, my body just follows, and doing screwdriver hands really helps all that happen.

Developing a much better feel for using the throttle to balance the bike when leaned over and to stand the bike up coming out of turns - it's no longer an on/off switch  8)

Today I was working on throttle control, specifically staying on the gas and keeping the weight 40/60 on the front and rear tires while cornering.  Also trying to be conscious of when I am coming off the gas, on the gas, and accelerating, to perfect my throttle control.  Inspired by the Twist of the Wrist II book and trying to adopt Keith Code's rules, really looking forward to becoming smother, faster, and more safe.

Each to their own of course, if Code works for you that's great but I've never really clicked with the way he explains stuff. I found Ienatsch & Hough to be much easier to understand and more in line with my experience. Again, each to their own, glad you're enjoying yourself. :)

I did hear a lot of people bashing Keith Code but I checked out his books for myself and I was very impressed with his work.  Specifically his concepts, like the $10 bill of limited attention you have to spend and how the same things cost you less as you improve your skills, and the Survival Reactions approach in the second book.  He gets very specific in his examples, though I do find myself having to reread some passages to fully understand it at times but that could very well be just me.  I've read the Ienatsch and Lee Parks books as well, also found them to be outstanding, but there is still a lot of ground left to cover:  they don't tell you what to do when you find yourself in a slide with the rear wheel, your first instinct (survival reaction) may be to come off the gas and/or try to hold the line, but those are counter-productive reactions which ironically may lead you to a high-side crash.  Instead you should stay on the gas and steer in the direction of the slide, good to know!  I am only about half way through Twist of the Wrist II but he speaks of things others do not talk about and so I am really glad I have this material in my personal library, as well as Ienatsch and other works, and I know this Keith Code stuff is really going to help me improve my riding.

Glad to hear that you decided to check things out for yourself and make a decision based on your own experiences with the book.  Too often, not just with riding or books about riding, people hear negative things that others have said and make their decisions based on that.  I try to live with the philosophy that I listen to what people have to say, take into consideration their thoughts and opinions and then try it for myself.  There is always going to be someone out there that has something negative to say about something else.  Glad you like the Twist book and are finding important things in it, and in the other ones you chose to read.

This is why I like to go to different forums and talk to different people, ask different questions......there is always something to learn  [coffee]

Thanks!

Misti

having a library books is fantastic!

just think, if you learn one thing and it saves you from going down the whole library has paid for itself many times over!

I got as many as I could and like to peruse them occasionally after a ride to see what I was doing and what I could focus on next time, they are great for rereading as my skill set improves (slowly).

Every time i go out riding i make sure i apply things that i get from Total Control book,that's like my bible;-) it helps me get focused on my riding and not get too over my head.I'm nowhere near an expert rider,and i learn things every time i go out.