I saw this on another bike forum and thought I would share. 16 with a 2008 R1 RIP :-[
http://cbs2.com/local/Fatal.Motorcycle.Stunts.2.781082.html (http://cbs2.com/local/Fatal.Motorcycle.Stunts.2.781082.html)
16-Year-Old Dies From Motorcycle Stunts At School
RIVERSIDE A 16-year-old Riverside boy doing stunts in a high school parking lot crashed his new 2008 Yamaha R1 motorcycle into a classroom building, and died a short time later, Riverside police said Sunday.
Coroner's officials identified the teen as Austin Lee Allen, 16, of Riverside.
Riverside police Sgt. Dan Reeves said the motorcycle rider was initially believed to be a student at Martin Luther King Jr. High School, where the crash was reported at 7:22 p.m. Saturday.
Witnesses said Allen was riding the Yamaha alone in a parking lot at the
school, in the 9300 block of Wood Road in the south Riverside area of Woodcrest, according to police and coroner's accounts of the crash.
Allen was doing a variety of high-speed stunts when he lost control of the Yamaha and crashed into the classroom, Reeves said. Allen was wearing a helmet, but he was pronounced dead at 8:18 p.m. at Riverside Community Hospital, Reeves said.
----
This is not only tragic, but wtf? a 1000cc superbike? For someone who's still a child by law?
EDIT: link should work now
Who is the make the beast with two backsEN GOOSE who sold that bike to him!
For make the beast with two backs sake, what a waste.
:-\
Hmm..tried the link but said "bad request"??
16 y/o and an R1?! How the h*ll can teens afford to pay for insurance on those bikes?!
Most likely one of the 'rents bought it for him. I know a guy down here in Hawaii that just did a similar thing for his 17 year old. Silly when you sit down and think about it. The parents are going through a divorce and the father tries to win favor with his son by shelling out the bucks for a hyper-bike. Father needs to be taken out and beaten if you ask me...
I'm not for government control at all...... but superbikes for kids is just f'n stupid.
There should be some stipulation on qualification on CC's like there is here in Japan and a progressive bike licensing process that is nationally accepted.
:'(
what a waste... :(
There ain't nothing tragic about this story.
Truly sad. :'( May he RIP and whomever sold him the bike and or bought him the bike be to blame. Karma, It's bad and good.
Parents should be flogged.
Quote from: 695LAM on July 29, 2008, 05:39:06 AM
Truly sad. :'( May he RIP and whomever sold him the bike and or bought him the bike be to blame. Karma, It's bad and good.
Seriously?
The kid is the one who made the choice to get on the bike and do "high speed stunts" in a parking lot. The person who sold / bought the bike for him didn't hold a gun to his head and tell him to go ride the bike like an asshat?
No.
The other people, while probably didn't make the smartest choice in selling him / buying him that bike aren't to blame.
The kid made the choice to do it. And he paid the price.
16 years is old enough to have some personal responsability and accountability for your actions.
Quote from: wbeck257 on July 29, 2008, 05:48:25 AM
Seriously?
The kid is the one who made the choice to get on the bike and do "high speed stunts" in a parking lot. The person who sold / bought the bike for him didn't hold a gun to his head and tell him to go ride the bike like an asshat?
No.
The other people, while probably didn't make the smartest choice in selling him / buying him that bike aren't to blame.
The kid made the choice to do it. And he paid the price.
16 years is old enough to have some personal responsability and accountability for your actions.
Dude, do you have any recollection of being 16? A 16 yr olds judgement is PRECISELY the reason they shouldn't be sold an R1. FFS I was racing everything that had wheels at 16. At 16 you are learning judgement through trial and error. That means accidents and wrecks, I was lucky to live through it, mainly because my parents knew not to let me get anything that fast, cause I was gonna go as fast as whatever vechicle I was on would go. What about the personal responsiblity of the parent who
should know better? I'm not one of those sue the parents for their kds actions kinda guys but this was clearly poor judgement. By the parents, 16yr olds with raging hormones have limited amounts of judgement available in the best of times.
Who are we to question the kid's skills? He had probably been watching Jason Britton for years!!! [roll]
I agree - flog the parent who bought the bike.
Quote from: wbeck257 on July 29, 2008, 05:48:25 AM
Seriously?
The kid is the one who made the choice to get on the bike and do "high speed stunts" in a parking lot. The person who sold / bought the bike for him didn't hold a gun to his head and tell him to go ride the bike like an asshat?
No.
The other people, while probably didn't make the smartest choice in selling him / buying him that bike aren't to blame.
The kid made the choice to do it. And he paid the price.
16 years is old enough to have some personal responsability and accountability for your actions.
On the same note, a four year old has free will and a desire for self preservation, but you don't hand them a hunting knife. Really, a sixteen year old shouldn't have that serious of a bike, without supervision. Your kid is some Stoner or whatever, well, then get them one. Don't put plates on it, and take them to a track. Kids do dumb things when left to their own devices.
my friend said he was getting an r6 we he was 14. I didnt believe him untill he showed up on it. He layed it down right down from my house about a month later. Then got another one and eventually totaled it. THEN HIS PARENTS GOT HIM A 2007 R1. What the make the beast with two backs. Oh well
This is why we need a UK like motorcycle license system.
I'm Mr Poopy Pants..... hear me roar.
Not everybody can be saved.
I survived lawn darts
I survived pools without fences
I survived 5 gallon buckets without warning lables printed on them.
I survived a couple car accidents
I survived a couple bike accidents
I survived BB gun fights
I survived sling shot wars
I survived no seatbelts in my moms station wagon.
I've been lucky. Sometimes people arent so lucky.
Most of us who ride.... are a lil hard headed and have a difficult time being told "no". We take risks. The kid took a risk and his luck ran out. Unless the salesman held a gun to his head and told him he had to buy it, it aint his fault. Same goes for the kids parents.
Is it a waste of life...maybe. I'm sure his family thinks so. But.... maybe the kid was a thief. Maybe the kid did drugs. The spectrum of "what if" needs to include the bad with the good.
I would like to think, that for every person who is harmed riding a bike in such a way that it causes people to point and say... "murdercycle".... there are a thousand who are having fun and who represent the sport in a positive light.
I sick of the nannystate.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 08:15:42 AM
I sick of the nannystate.
[thumbsup] + 11'ty billion.
Why do people have to legislate intelligence into us?
One less idiot in the world.
No remorse coming from me.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 08:15:42 AM
Is it a waste of life...maybe. I'm sure his family thinks so. But.... maybe the kid was a thief. Maybe the kid did drugs. The spectrum of "what if" needs to include the bad with the good.
Even if the "what if" is bad, that doesn't make this any less a waste of life. Kids do stupid things. It's part of growing up. Absolutely it's a waste of life. What a ridiculous thing to say. Everyone who dies young is a waste of life. Many of the decent people I knew in high school are complete drains on society now and many of the losers have stepped up and done good. Whether he was wasting his life on drugs or as a teenage thief doesn't make this any less a waste of life.
On a more upbeat note, did anyone else notice that the motorcycle photo next to the article was an Harley-Davidson springer softtail? I would LOVE to see someone do a stoppie on that.
Kids are dumb. That's why they need parents.
But sometimes parents are dumb too. That's why we need laws to protect the kids and the general public.
That's why there is a legal age for drinking, driving, gun ownership. If we left it up just to the parents there would be alot more drunk kids driving around shooting at shit. If I was given given an R1 at 16 I would not be alive today. Thank jebus I had smart parents.
Call it the nanny state. Call it whatever you want. Graduated licensing for motorcycles (and cars for that matter) is a good idea imo. :-\
Quote from: erik822 on July 29, 2008, 08:47:41 AM
Even if the "what if" is bad, that doesn't make this any less a waste of life. Kids do stupid things. It's part of growing up. Absolutely it's a waste of life. What a ridiculous thing to say. Everyone who dies young is a waste of life. Many of the decent people I knew in high school are complete drains on society now and many of the losers have stepped up and done good. Whether he was wasting his life on drugs or as a teenage thief doesn't make this any less a waste of life.
On a more upbeat note, did anyone else notice that the motorcycle photo next to the article was an Harley-Davidson springer softtail? I would LOVE to see someone do a stoppie on that.
so..... if a kid, hopped up on drugs driving a stolen car kills your mom...... I'd say it's more of a waste having mom gone (assuming your mom is a good human ;) )
a few months ago..... four kids.... ages 13 - 15, beat an 84 year old man to death..... just cuz.
you wanna babysit one of them and wait a few years to see "if" they turn it around? I dont. I want them gone.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 09:02:05 AM
so..... if a kid, hopped up on drugs driving a stolen car kills your mom...... I'd say it's more of a waste having mom gone (assuming your mom is a good human ;) )
a few months ago..... four kids.... ages 13 - 15, beat an 84 year old man to death..... just cuz.
you wanna babysit one of them and wait a few years to see "if" they turn it around? I dont. I want them gone.
Weren't you nothing but trouble when you were younger? ???
Quote from: someguy on July 29, 2008, 09:09:51 AM
Weren't you nothing but trouble when you were younger? ???
I was a huge pain in the ass..... but I never beat anybody to death.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 09:13:27 AM
I was a huge pain in the ass..... *snip*
Why dis past tense? ;)
Its all outta love, I promise. :-*
I had my share of mishaps as a kid, but not anything like this at 16. no license, no bike, no one stupid enough to buy me an R1, and parents that made sure I wasn't doing anything too stupid. I feel more for the loss of a good bike than I do this kid. Kid didn't think, parents didn't think, oh well this is what could and did happen. Shame but no tragedy.
H&D stoppie's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa7Z-iI1t-Q
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 09:13:27 AM
I was a huge pain in the ass..... but I never beat anybody to death.
Nope...but I'm guessing more'n a few people tried to help you "turn it around", no?
Quote from: SKOM on July 29, 2008, 08:59:57 AM
Kids are dumb. That's why they need parents.
But sometimes parents are dumb too. That's why we need laws to protect the kids and the general public.
That's why there is a legal age for drinking, driving, gun ownership. If we left it up just to the parents there would be alot more drunk kids driving around shooting at shit. If I was given given an R1 at 16 I would not be alive today. Thank jebus I had smart parents.
Call it the nanny state. Call it whatever you want. Graduated licensing for motorcycles (and cars for that matter) is a good idea imo. :-\
being a good parent is all relative. Britneys mom thinks she's a good parent.
and even if you are a good parent, its not a given that your kids are going to turn out good.
I'm all for proper licensing, and more hoops to jump through. But we as humans will make the beast with two backs all that training up, by...
demanding cars have cup holders
having bluetooth helmets
putting tvs in cars
relying on gps to do your thinking for you
installing stereos that make people deaf
mods that decrease handling
etc etc
Quote from: JBubble on July 29, 2008, 09:15:04 AM
Why dis past tense? ;)
cuz I'm a actually a mega pain now ;)
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 09:02:05 AM
so..... if a kid, hopped up on drugs driving a stolen car kills your mom...... I'd say it's more of a waste having mom gone (assuming your mom is a good human ;) )
a few months ago..... four kids.... ages 13 - 15, beat an 84 year old man to death..... just cuz.
you wanna babysit one of them and wait a few years to see "if" they turn it around? I dont. I want them gone.
I don't think the two are even near comparable. This kid at least had the decency to practice this in an empty lot. Had a helmet on. The kid does not sound like a bad apple, #1. #2 his death was the only death involved. Talking about a doped up kid that kills ones mom is neither hear nor there.
Some one put a gun in a 16 year old kids hand and said have at it. Some kids are responsible enough for that, others, not quite. You don't give a four year old a knife and you don't give a 16 year old a vehicle capable of killing him for making a minor mistake.
Quote from: someguy on July 29, 2008, 09:19:26 AM
Nope...but I'm guessing more'n a few people tried to help you "turn it around", no?
yup.... mom beat me with a...
bible
hotwheel tracks
wooden spoons
ping pong paddles.
all of which..... would now get my mom locked up from CPS for doing more harm to me than good ;)
Quote from: fwtcc on July 29, 2008, 09:36:26 AM
Some one put a gun in a 16 year old kids hand and said have at it. Some kids are responsible enough for that, others, not quite. You don't give a four year old a knife and you don't give a 16 year old a vehicle capable of killing him for making a minor mistake.
"minor mistake" covers a large area. I could make a minor mistake while driving and still die and in a car I'm more likely to take someone else out with me since it's bigger and has more mass that will cause more destruction if I lose control. If he's making "minor mistakes" then perhaps he shouldn't be doing things where the minor mistake could kill him. Perhaps it would be a better idea for him to learn to ride his bike "properly" before trying "high speed stunts" so there won't be any/ as many "minor mistakes."
What gets me is the PC wording of everything in the media. All motorists "lose control" whether they did or not. You can't really know. I guess technically if he crashed into a building to kill himself then he probably wasn't in control but he make the beast with two backsed up plain and simple. Still, he was probably doing exactly what he meant to do and it just didn't turn out the way he thought it would.
Quote from: fwtcc on July 29, 2008, 09:36:26 AM
I don't think the two are even near comparable. This kid at least had the decency to practice this in an empty lot. Had a helmet on. The kid does not sound like a bad apple, #1. #2 his death was the only death involved. Talking about a doped up kid that kills ones mom is neither hear nor there.
Some one put a gun in a 16 year old kids hand and said have at it. Some kids are responsible enough for that, others, not quite. You don't give a four year old a knife and you don't give a 16 year old a vehicle capable of killing him for making a minor mistake.
Yes it's great he had the sense to do this with a helmet on (state law requirement) and in a parking lot. but he was trying "high-speed stunts" in a lot thats approximately 250' x 250' (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=martin+luther+king+jr+school,+riverside,+la&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=51.443116,113.203125&ie=UTF8&ll=33.88391,-117.333072&spn=0.003322,0.006909&t=h&z=17).
There is nothing wrong with providing a motorcycle or most dangerous things to a 16yo, so long as you believe the kid is responsible enough to listen to you AND you are there at all times to parent your kid and be the voice of reason. If this is a bad idea and no one did it we probably would not have MC racers of the caliber we do today.
Quote from: Pakhan on July 29, 2008, 09:48:26 AM
Yes it's great he had the sense to do this with a helmet on (state law requirement) and in a parking lot. but he was trying "high-speed stunts" in a lot thats approximately 250' x 250' (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=martin+luther+king+jr+school,+riverside,+la&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=51.443116,113.203125&ie=UTF8&ll=33.88391,-117.333072&spn=0.003322,0.006909&t=h&z=17).
I was wondering when someone would take the time to look up the size of the parking lot. Also, yeah, helmet only? I know a lotta people on the board support dressing for the crash and while I know it's your choice, you gotta expect that you're gonna crash while practicing stunts and should dress appropriately. Even a 15 mph laydown can leave a nasty rash.
Quote from: fwtcc on July 29, 2008, 09:36:26 AM
I don't think the two are even near comparable. This kid at least had the decency to practice this in an empty lot. Had a helmet on. The kid does not sound like a bad apple, #1. #2 his death was the only death involved. Talking about a doped up kid that kills ones mom is neither hear nor there.
Some one put a gun in a 16 year old kids hand and said have at it. Some kids are responsible enough for that, others, not quite. You don't give a four year old a knife and you don't give a 16 year old a vehicle capable of killing him for making a minor mistake.
you are missing the point.
A: neither you nor I knew the kid.
B: if anybody is going to ASSUME..... you have to open up the entire spectrum of "what if".
If I were to pass away while riding...there will be three camps. Those who say, "it's a waste", those who say, "it's about time", and those who are saddened that a fellow rider went down doing what he loved, and thats it. It's the same for all of us who ride. A persons value to huminity is all relative.
thats all I'm say'n
A local rider died a few moths back. I never met the kid. I cried when I read about how what had happened. I went to his clubs website, and advised them how to help put the drunk how ran him over, behind bars.... his group of friends tore into me for doing so. They are the local stunters, and all I did was....
express my sadness in his and thier loss, and, suggest that they remove all the pics and videos of Jared , the kid who was killed, from their website, because the local media had been reporting links to it, and I thought it would be best that the drunks lawyer not have that to use, as to paint the victim as more the cause because of all the stunting stuff he was know for. Well..... if be'n a stunta is more important to them than seeing to it, that a drunk is put away...make the beast with two backs them.
If the kid thought do'n wheelies was more important than attending a MSF course...well, thats the path he decided to walk.
Im saddened that a fellow rider went down, but i'm not going to picket the dealership, or kick his parents in the balls because of it. I'm going to use it as a reminder to say sharp.
Quote from: Pakhan on July 29, 2008, 09:48:26 AM
Yes it's great he had the sense to do this with a helmet on (state law requirement) and in a parking lot. but he was trying "high-speed stunts" in a lot thats approximately 250' x 250' (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=martin+luther+king+jr+school,+riverside,+la&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=51.443116,113.203125&ie=UTF8&ll=33.88391,-117.333072&spn=0.003322,0.006909&t=h&z=17).
There is nothing wrong with providing a motorcycle or most dangerous things to a 16yo, so long as you believe the kid is responsible enough to listen to you AND you are there at all times to parent your kid and be the voice of reason. If this is a bad idea and no one did it we probably would not have MC racers of the caliber we do today.
I didn't say he was a
smart kid. Just doesn't seem like a bad apple.
I'm just saying parents shouldn't give a kid carte blanche with something dangerous. Motorcycles are dangerous. Fun, but dangerous and require amount of responsibility and self control most 16 year olds don't have. I am not saying it is all the parents fault, in a strict liability since, just that 16 is awfully young to turn a kid loose on something like that. He shouldn't have been being an idiot, his parents shouldn't have given him something like that bike.
Quote from: fwtcc on July 29, 2008, 10:54:32 AM
self control most 16 year olds don't have.
or..... most humans period.
Quote from: fwtcc on July 29, 2008, 10:54:32 AM
I'm just saying parents shouldn't give a kid carte blanche with something dangerous. Motorcycles are dangerous. Fun, but dangerous and require amount of responsibility and self control most 16 year olds don't have. I am not saying it is all the parents fault, in a strict liability since, just that 16 is awfully young to turn a kid loose on something like that. He shouldn't have been being an idiot, his parents shouldn't have given him something like that bike.
Agreed.
However, this is different from earlier where you implied the salesperson was responsible. [At least that's what it sounded like in your reply to wbeck...we may actually be in total agreement] ???
Responsibilty falls to two (well, maybe 3) people: 1) The kid for being a dumbass, 2) The parent(s) for buying said dumbass an R1 (or allowing him to buy it), and also not teaching him to not be such a dumbass.
No new laws needed...no reason to blame the salesperson.
Quote from: Triple J on July 29, 2008, 11:47:57 AM
Agreed.
However, this is different from earlier where you implied the salesperson was responsible. [At least that's what it sounded like in your reply to wbeck...we may actually be in total agreement] ???
Responsibilty falls to two (well, maybe 3) people: 1) The kid for being a dumbass, 2) The parent(s) for buying said dumbass an R1 (or allowing him to buy it), and also not teaching him to not be such a dumbass.
No new laws needed...no reason to blame the salesperson.
it falls on the kid, and the kid alone. (unless the kid was autistic)
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 11:54:47 AM
it falls on the kid, and the kid alone. (unless the kid was autistic)
Would you let your son have an R1?
Quote from: Triple J on July 29, 2008, 11:47:57 AM
Agreed.
However, this is different from earlier where you implied the salesperson was responsible. [At least that's what it sounded like in your reply to wbeck...we may actually be in total agreement] ???
Responsibilty falls to two (well, maybe 3) people: 1) The kid for being a dumbass, 2) The parent(s) for buying said dumbass an R1 (or allowing him to buy it), and also not teaching him to not be such a dumbass.
No new laws needed...no reason to blame the salesperson.
I strictly meant the parents. I am sure there was a weasely salesman saying the R1 was a perfect starter bike or that he would outgrow anything smaller in weeks, but that guy is just an asshole piece of shit in general.
An adult had to buy it for him, and an adult should have better sense.
BP, not saying your a bad parent or implying you would do such a thing, but if you think your child has enough sense to walk around with a gun, keep them the hell away from me.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 11:54:47 AM
it falls on the kid, and the kid alone. (unless the kid was autistic)
I disagree. The parents have some responsibility. Mind you, not
legal responsiblity, but they should
feel a little responsible.
Quote from: someguy on July 29, 2008, 11:55:58 AM
Would you let your son have an R1?
my son is 22 he can do what he wants.
would I buy him one when he was 16. If he had been around bikes for sometime and had Ben Spies skills, and I could afford it. yup
there are parents out there who wrap thier kids up sooooo tight, they cant breathe. those kids get out of the house, get a taste of freedom and abuse it.
kids need to fail, kids need to get hurt, kids need to live, kids need to learn how to manage risks.
a parent that wraps the kid up.... sometimes does just as much damage as one who gives a kid a loaded R1.
Quote from: Triple J on July 29, 2008, 12:01:12 PM
I disagree. The parents have some responsibility. Mind you, not legal responsiblity, but they should feel a little responsible.
well....yeah, if a parent didnt feel some of that...they would not be human.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 12:07:00 PM
would I buy him one when he was 16. If he had been around bikes for sometime and had Ben Spies skills, and I could afford it. yup
there are parents out there who wrap thier kids up sooooo tight, they cant breathe. those kids get out of the house, get a taste of freedom and abuse it.
kids need to fail, kids need to get hurt, kids need to live, kids need to learn how to manage risks.
a parent that wraps the kid up.... sometimes does just as much damage as one who gives a kid a loaded R1.
What if he was a newer rider, but you felt he was responsible? What if he could afford it (somehow)? Would you still let him?
After all, you said the fault is on the kid and the kid alone-would you really just let him?
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 12:07:00 PM
my son is 22 he can do what he wants.
would I buy him one when he was 16. If he had been around bikes for sometime and had Ben Spies skills, and I could afford it. yup
there are parents out there who wrap thier kids up sooooo tight, they cant breathe. those kids get out of the house, get a taste of freedom and abuse it.
kids need to fail, kids need to get hurt, kids need to live, kids need to learn how to manage risks.
a parent that wraps the kid up.... sometimes does just as much damage as one who gives a kid a loaded R1.
Either Kids are just too sheltered, or they haven't had any guidance since their birth. Sometimes you need to break an arm as a 14 year old to avoid a broken neck at 21.
Quote from: someguy on July 29, 2008, 12:08:41 PM
What if he was a newer rider, but you felt he was responsible? What if he could afford it (somehow)? Would you still let him?
After all, you said the fault is on the kid and the kid alone-would you really just let him?
Not as a newer rider..... but thats based on MY comfort level. I dont expect others to have to follow in my safe zone. My mom let me buy a moped when I was 16. Because that was within her comfort zone. In theory..... a truck crushing an R1 is the same as a truck crushing a Yamahopper.(and yes.... I know the kid was not crushed by a truck)
I gave my some a glider flight ride for his 13th birthday. Two days after... a pilot and his student here killed, same airfield.
Life has risks.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 12:15:42 PM
Not as a newer rider..... but thats based on MY comfort level. I dont expect others to have to follow in my safe zone. My mom let me buy a moped when I was 16. Because that was within her comfort zone. In theory..... a truck crushing an R1 is the same as a truck crushing a Yamahopper.(and yes.... I know the kid was not crushed by a truck)
I gave my some a glider flight ride for his 13th birthday. Two days after... a pilot and his student here killed, same airfield.
Life has risks.
i know that, but my point being if you would've stepped in and done something in the same situation, clearly you don't think the kid is the only one who should be deciding this sort of thing, no?
Quote from: someguy on July 29, 2008, 12:19:08 PM
i know that, but my point being if you would've stepped in and done something in the same situation, clearly you don't think the kid is the only one who should be deciding this sort of thing, no?
I know where you are going..... but..... how do you police all the parents of the world?
and who decides whats safe vs unsafe?
we can now eat tomatoes..... three weeks prior..... the tomatoes were going to kill you.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 12:07:00 PM
my son is 22 he can do what he wants.
would I buy him one when he was 16. If he had been around bikes for sometime and had Ben Spies skills, and I could afford it. yup
there are parents out there who wrap thier kids up sooooo tight, they cant breathe. those kids get out of the house, get a taste of freedom and abuse it.
kids need to fail, kids need to get hurt, kids need to live, kids need to learn how to manage risks.
a parent that wraps the kid up.... sometimes does just as much damage as one who gives a kid a loaded R1.
There's this color. It's called grey. It exist because everything isn't black and white. You are not coddling a kid by saying no to an R1. No to a 10 speed at 16 is coddling, but not an R1.
No one is saying arrest the parents, just that they're shitty parents.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 12:22:30 PM
I know where you are going..... but..... how do you police all the parents of the world?
and who decides whats safe vs unsafe?
we can now eat tomatoes..... three weeks prior..... the tomatoes were going to kill you.
Who said anything about policing them? I just think they're partially to blame, and not just the kid.
Kids are dumb as bricks. Whoever helped him get that bike, should've known better.
Quote from: fwtcc on July 29, 2008, 12:23:51 PM
There's this color. It's called grey. It exist because everything isn't black and white. You are not coddling a kid by saying no to an R1. No to a 10 speed at 16 is coddling, but not an R1.
No one is saying arrest the parents, just that they're shitty parents.
by your standards. ( and may others, myself included) but.....
it's all relative.
if I got the boys a minibike.... lm would have my balls. But.... they can go flip each other in Judo class.
My uncle bob, got mini bikes for his kids, and thought Judo was dangerous.
I'm just tired of people pointing the finger of blame at everybody other that themselves. And I'm tired of people who think that the way to fix the finger pointing, is by making the world a safer place according to thier standards.
The only truth in assumptions are they include ass.
We don't know the family or the boy. The kid died. For him it was a tragic mistake and for his family and friends a tragedy. The use of it as just a proof point in some belief system or Squid argument is twisted as opposed to most here using the tragedy to discuss lessons learned. [edited]
For all we know the parents were restrictive in how/when he used the bike and let him take it down to the school ,with it's small safe parking lot, to show it to his friends. Since we're going down memory lane you old farts ... showing a new ride to your friends and hearing them oohh and ahhh was a major factor at 16 and in HS. He decided to impress them (I'd wager there were some girls present as well) as well and it got out of hand.
For all we know the kid could have grown up on bikes (dirt and/or track) and been a proficient rider.
At least this kid didn't lose control of his souped up Civic and crash into a family, the kids at the finish line or any of a milliion other scenarios. Teens do wild things it's a part of growing up. Sometimes those things don't go well. Legislation won't change that anymore than Obama's passing a law on his Senate Committee to ban/keep terrorists from getting Nuclear Weapons has (easily the funniest commercial I've seen to date in this political season, LOL).
As far as the argument of age restrictions etc.
I believe the age at which you are legally responsible for yourself - meaning you are tried as an adult if you do wrong and you are able to be sent to kill for your country by your own decision or the govts - is the age you should be granted the privileges as well. These include the privilege to drive, vote, drink, ride, etc.
A stepped drivers license (as well as moto) with restrictions from 16 to 18 would be something I'd be for.
Quote from: someguy on July 29, 2008, 12:24:56 PM
Who said anything about policing them? I just think they're partially to blame, and not just the kid.
Kids are dumb as bricks. Whoever helped him get that bike, should've known better.
kids are dumb as bricks, because we as parents make them dumb. we teach the about "fair" when the world isnt.
we teach them that the word "no" really does not mean no, if they just push it a lil more. we teach them, that a person can get multiple do-overs with little or no consquences to thier actions.
so.... you sue the parents who made the kid dumb, then the grandparents who made the parents dumb?
the parents may be at fault..... but same as none of us knowing the kid.... none of us know the parents.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 12:38:54 PM
kids are dumb as bricks, because we as parents make them dumb. we teach the about "fair" when the world isnt.
we teach them that the word "no" really does not mean no, if they just push it a lil more. we teach them, that a person can get multiple do-overs with little or no consquences to thier actions.
so.... you sue the parents who made the kid dumb, then the grandparents who made the parents dumb?
the parents may be at fault..... but same as none of us knowing the kid.... none of us know the parents.
One of the first things I learned was that life is unfair.
Quote from: COWBOY on July 29, 2008, 12:34:11 PM
The apparent joy or laughter this brings some of you is troubling. The use of it as just a proof point in some belief system or argument is twisted.
who here is laughing at the death of a kid?
and just so ya know..... you just posted up your beliefs in the thread.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 12:45:33 PM
who here is laughing at the death of a kid?
and just so ya know..... you just posted up your beliefs in the thread.
Laughing was strong, I'll edit that.
Beliefs? I did? OMG. Was it the Obama line or the "I believe ... " statement that gave it away. LOL.
Quote from: COWBOY on July 29, 2008, 12:54:03 PM
Laughing was strong, I'll edit that.
Beliefs? I did? OMG. Was it the Obama line or the "I believe ... " statement that gave it away. LOL.
It was the souped up civic comment [laugh]
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 12:58:24 PM
It was the souped up civic comment [laugh]
I picked that example given the list of reckless behavior you provided from your youth, LOL. Slingshot fights... we played Slingshot tag when I was 12-13 since we only had a few slingshots - kind of like cops and robbers. We used to drag race in HS out in the country. Worst that ever happened was one dumbass not stopping and literally de-axeling his beater of a car as he plowed into a large squared curb ("i thought it would hop it." LOL) and a few damaged rows of corn.
To your prior belief comment - The difference is I didn't use the kid or his death as an example to bolster my arguments for either belief that 1. you can't legislate teens rebelliousness 2. privileges should be granted at the same time that responsibility is bestowed.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 12:38:54 PM
we teach the about "fair" when the world isnt.
we teach them that the word "no" really does not mean no, if they just push it a lil more. we teach them, that a person can get multiple do-overs with little or no consquences to thier actions.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 12:31:25 PM
I'm just tired of people pointing the finger of blame at everybody other that themselves. And I'm tired of people who think that the way to fix the finger pointing, is by making the world a safer place according to thier standards.
You nailed the point of this thread.
it's hard to talk about the larger issues when we're torn by the gut reaction to the event.
That's why we're still talking about it. With the information provided (assuming the reporters are 100% accurate [roll]) it's hard to determine the right or wrong of the situation. And, you're right - we say "what a waste" without saying the negative. We're trained to say it - and we don't even think about what we're saying.
"Yes we are all individuals"......
Why would the parents let him do this? I dont get it.
Recently on a 1098 board I frequent, a 16 year old was mentioning his desire to buy the 1098s. I just dont get the parents.... wtf
Quote from: ducducgooseme on July 29, 2008, 01:49:42 PM
Why would the parents let him do this? I dont get it.
Recently on a 1098 board I frequent, a 16 year old was mentioning his desire to buy the 1098s. I just dont get the parents.... wtf
and..... out there somewhere, there is a kid with one.
when I took the MSF class, it was filled with people who wanted Harleys. I was the only guy in the class, who had even ridden a bike before.First day out on the skid pad, quite a few of the people were drop'n the 250's. The next day, the instructor ask the people again...what kind of bike are you planning on getting.... none of them had changed thier mind. These were all adults. So.... you cant handle a lil 250 but you want some 600lb bike with waaaay more power?
Should they all be stopped at the dealership?
Quote from: truckinduc on July 29, 2008, 06:57:47 AM
my friend said he was getting an r6 we he was 14. I didnt believe him untill he showed up on it. He layed it down right down from my house about a month later. Then got another one and eventually totaled it. THEN HIS PARENTS GOT HIM A 2007 R1. What the make the beast with two backs. Oh well
It's kinda obvious to me that his parents are trying to kill him. The problem is that he keeps screwing it up by not getting killed.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 01:56:36 PM
and..... out there somewhere, there is a kid with one.
when I took the MSF class, it was filled with people who wanted Harleys. .... none of them had changed thier mind. These were all adults. So.... you cant handle a lil 250 but you want some 600lb bike with waaaay more power?
They ALL must have changed their minds. Harley doesn't make a 600 lb bike! ;D
Quote from: Triple J on July 29, 2008, 02:09:58 PM
They ALL must have changed their minds. Harley doesn't make a 600 lb bike! ;D
I'm sorry...11tyb lb bike [laugh]
It's too bad
a. the kid wasn't smarter
b. didn't think before doing something
c. he was given too much power too soon
d. his parents have to go through the grief of burying him
e. his friends have to bury a friend
f. his classmates have to bury a schoolmate
g. his relatives have to miss work to attend a funeral
h. none of his friends took his keys away
i. he didn't practice in a safer location
j. he didn't learn more about brakes and less about throttles
k. he didn't get his adrenaline fix some other way
Even if he was "asking for it" and doing something stupid, dying at 16 is a waste. Yes, life is all about luck. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. But I guess I don't care who they are, what they did or why they did it. It's a waste to die at 16.
Well, GD, I think just about all the bases are covered there. I considered making a joke about the janitor to really close things up, probably in bad taste, so I think you covered everything.
I agree.
So sad. For many reasons.
I'm no MotoGP pilot by any means, but I have been riding for almost 30 years and feel that I'm fairly competent. That said, I have no need for something like an R1, nor do I want one for the obvious reasons. Where the hell were this kid's parents? :-\
In Europe you need to be 15 to have a moped (50cc max, 50km/h - 30mph limit) and at 18 you can ride a 125cc bike limited to 15hp.. this can be delimited to 33hp if you pass the A bike test.. which also limits you to 33hp for 2 years and then you can ride anything you want.
HOW THE HELL CAN A 16 Y/O BE PERMITTED TO RIDE A 175HP ROCKET!!!
Even I don't have the balls to buy one! For Pete's sake, I don't want one on a race track either - falling hurts, being hurled over the high side by 175hp will kill you. Yeah, i'm sure most of us here could buy any bike (reasonably priced ones, no D16RRs) but we chose to buy interesting bikes that we are passionate about.
I just don't understand or better said don't want to understand how a 16 year old CHILD can legally posses a Yamaha R1!
Lynch these parents before it's too late and we lose a generation of our (your) young
Quote from: NuTTs on July 29, 2008, 07:03:37 PM
Lynch these parents before it's too late and we lose a generation of our (your) young
we wont run out. we can import them in from outside sources like Brad and Angie did.
Bill Hicks said it like this:
The anchor man came on the news and said, "Today a young man on acid jumped to his death from a 10th story window believing he could fly. What a tragedy." What a tragedy? What a dick! make the beast with two backs him. He's an idiot. If he thought he could fly why didn't he take off from the ground first? You don't see ducks lined up to catch elevators in order to fly south. They fly from the ground you moron, quit ruining it for everybody. He's a moron. He's dead. Good, we lost another moron make the beast with two backsin' celebrate! Wow, I just felt the world get lighter. [/Hicks]
So basically we got rid of some douchebag who would otherwise spend most of his waking hours dumping the trash out of his car at the Taco Bell Drive Thru. Good. make the beast with two backs him. Had he been riding safely in full gear and got creamed by a drunk semi driver, yeah, I'll pour a little of my 40oz on the block for him. But, considering the circumstances, make the beast with two backs him, make the beast with two backs his parents and make the beast with two backs everyone of his friends that did not ask him to be safer every goddamn day they saw him. make the beast with two backs every dude that went WOOOOOOO when he managed not to die doing some lame ass trick. make the beast with two backs every dim witted bimbo that let him cop a feel because, you know he's daring and manly and that type of shit is just sexy. make the beast with two backs everyone that talks out of two sides of their mouth don't-regulate-it-but-"they"-ought-to-do-"something". Pick a side or go back to watching Letterman. And make the beast with two backs this kid again right in his ear because this gives bikers a bad name. Which wouldn't be bad except that it attracts those wanna be badasses who can put their rebellion on credit. make the beast with two backs those guys for make the beast with two backsing it up for those who truly are badass, for those who ride because they truly love it and for those of us who just want to give a shot with having to pretend that being on two wheels makes your penis bigger. So yeah, make the beast with two backs this kid. I hope more irresponsible douchebags crash their stunt mobiles into buildings. More chlorine in the gene pool. YAY! More displacement! Heavier faster bikes! Make 'em cheaper and put no restrictions on ownership (because being able to pass a DMV test on a Vespa qualifies you to ride a 1000cc ass rocket the same way getting a license to drive a car makes you qualified to drive a tractor trailer). You want the personal freedom? Good with freedom comes responsiblity. What's that, you were irresponsible? And you suffered consequences as a result? Good! I just felt the world get lighter.
The End.
sac
/oh and make the beast with two backs those people with their "all people on two wheels are brothers" bullshit
//you don't mean it and I ain't buying it
///yeah, I've been drinking, so? ;D
YEAH!!!!! Sacs back [clap]
Quote from: bobspapa on July 29, 2008, 07:49:45 PM
YEAH!!!!! Sacs back [clap]
And I still love people! :-*
Quote from: SacDuc on July 29, 2008, 07:45:55 PM
Bill Hicks said it like this:
The anchor man came on the news and said, "Today a young man on acid jumped to his death from a 10th story window believing he could fly. What a tragedy." What a tragedy? What a dick! make the beast with two backs him. He's an idiot. If he thought he could fly why didn't he take off from the ground first? You don't see ducks lined up to catch elevators in order to fly south. They fly from the ground you moron, quit ruining it for everybody. He's a moron. He's dead. Good, we lost another moron make the beast with two backsin' celebrate! Wow, I just felt the world get lighter. [/Hicks]
So basically we got rid of some douchebag who would otherwise spend most of his waking hours dumping the trash out of his car at the Taco Bell Drive Thru. Good. make the beast with two backs him. Had he been riding safely in full gear and got creamed by a drunk semi driver, yeah, I'll pour a little of my 40oz on the block for him. But, considering the circumstances, make the beast with two backs him, make the beast with two backs his parents and make the beast with two backs everyone of his friends that did not ask him to be safer every goddamn day they saw him. make the beast with two backs every dude that went WOOOOOOO when he managed not to die doing some lame ass trick. make the beast with two backs every dim witted bimbo that let him cop a feel because, you know he's daring and manly and that type of shit is just sexy. make the beast with two backs everyone that talks out of two sides of their mouth don't-regulate-it-but-"they"-ought-to-do-"something". Pick a side or go back to watching Letterman. And make the beast with two backs this kid again right in his ear because this gives bikers a bad name. Which wouldn't be bad except that it attracts those wanna be badasses who can put their rebellion on credit. make the beast with two backs those guys for make the beast with two backsing it up for those who truly are badass, for those who ride because they truly love it and for those of us who just want to give a shot with having to pretend that being on two wheels makes your penis bigger. So yeah, make the beast with two backs this kid. I hope more irresponsible douchebags crash their stunt mobiles into buildings. More chlorine in the gene pool. YAY! More displacement! Heavier faster bikes! Make 'em cheaper and put no restrictions on ownership (because being able to pass a DMV test on a Vespa qualifies you to ride a 1000cc ass rocket the same way getting a license to drive a car makes you qualified to drive a tractor trailer). You want the personal freedom? Good with freedom comes responsiblity. What's that, you were irresponsible? And you suffered consequences as a result? Good! I just felt the world get lighter.
The End.
sac
/
[clap]
There are how many Billion people in this world?
And you folks wanna rant about one mouth breathing, inbred, lead paint eating family of assholes because they bought, or let their kid buy something that could kill him? And it killed him?
It's called evolution.
The smart ones get to procreate.
The dumb ones die out.
IMO, quit peeing in the gene pool.
Quote from: SacDuc on July 29, 2008, 07:45:55 PM
Bill Hicks said it like this:
The anchor man came on the news and said, "Today a young man on acid jumped to his death from a 10th story window believing he could fly. What a tragedy." What a tragedy? What a dick! make the beast with two backs him. He's an idiot. If he thought he could fly why didn't he take off from the ground first? You don't see ducks lined up to catch elevators in order to fly south. They fly from the ground you moron, quit ruining it for everybody. He's a moron. He's dead. Good, we lost another moron make the beast with two backsin' celebrate! Wow, I just felt the world get lighter. [/Hicks]
So basically we got rid of some douchebag who would otherwise spend most of his waking hours dumping the trash out of his car at the Taco Bell Drive Thru. Good. make the beast with two backs him. Had he been riding safely in full gear and got creamed by a drunk semi driver, yeah, I'll pour a little of my 40oz on the block for him. But, considering the circumstances, make the beast with two backs him, make the beast with two backs his parents and make the beast with two backs everyone of his friends that did not ask him to be safer every goddamn day they saw him. make the beast with two backs every dude that went WOOOOOOO when he managed not to die doing some lame ass trick. make the beast with two backs every dim witted bimbo that let him cop a feel because, you know he's daring and manly and that type of shit is just sexy. make the beast with two backs everyone that talks out of two sides of their mouth don't-regulate-it-but-"they"-ought-to-do-"something". Pick a side or go back to watching Letterman. And make the beast with two backs this kid again right in his ear because this gives bikers a bad name. Which wouldn't be bad except that it attracts those wanna be badasses who can put their rebellion on credit. make the beast with two backs those guys for make the beast with two backsing it up for those who truly are badass, for those who ride because they truly love it and for those of us who just want to give a shot with having to pretend that being on two wheels makes your penis bigger. So yeah, make the beast with two backs this kid. I hope more irresponsible douchebags crash their stunt mobiles into buildings. More chlorine in the gene pool. YAY! More displacement! Heavier faster bikes! Make 'em cheaper and put no restrictions on ownership (because being able to pass a DMV test on a Vespa qualifies you to ride a 1000cc ass rocket the same way getting a license to drive a car makes you qualified to drive a tractor trailer). You want the personal freedom? Good with freedom comes responsiblity. What's that, you were irresponsible? And you suffered consequences as a result? Good! I just felt the world get lighter.
The End.
sac
/oh and make the beast with two backs those people with their "all people on two wheels are brothers" bullshit
//you don't mean it and I ain't buying it
///yeah, I've been drinking, so? ;D
Sac, Mate, you have to learn not to hold back your feelings, It's not healthy!
You need to tell us what you truly feel! [cheeky]
Quote from: Bun-bun on July 29, 2008, 09:14:57 PM
IMO, quit peeing in the gene pool.
No,
keep peeing in the gene pool. Then only the worthy genes survive. ;D
Go lemmings, go!
About a year ago, my 19yo nephew told me he wanted to get an R1. He'd seen used literbikes in local Craigslist ads for reasonable prices, and he thought it would be a lot of fun. There was a long thread about it on TOB.
To make a long story short, I offered to pay for half of the cost of an MSF course. (I could/would have paid the entire $160, but I wanted him to have some $$ of his own in the program). He took the class, had a lot of fun, scored a perfect score on the riding test, and now he's shopping for a bike. Fortunately, the insurance costs for a literbike are prohibitive for him. He'll probably have to settle for something that doesn't cost $500/month to insure... [laugh]
The moral of the story? If we, as thoughtful members of the moto community, are willing to invest in training and educating new riders, we will ALL benefit. I like to think that I've kept my young, testosterone-driven nephew from becoming fodder for one of these "Sportbike Kills Rider" news stories. I've also given a young rider some of the tools he'll need to be a good motorcyclist. I hope he'll pay it forward to one of his friends or family.
Quote from: bluemoco v2.0 on July 30, 2008, 09:52:03 PM
About a year ago, my 19yo nephew told me he wanted to get an R1. He'd seen used literbikes in local Craigslist ads for reasonable prices, and he thought it would be a lot of fun. There was a long thread about it on TOB.
To make a long story short, I offered to pay for half of the cost of an MSF course. (I could/would have paid the entire $160, but I wanted him to have some $$ of his own in the program). He took the class, had a lot of fun, scored a perfect score on the riding test, and now he's shopping for a bike. Fortunately, the insurance costs for a literbike are prohibitive for him. He'll probably have to settle for something that doesn't cost $500/month to insure... [laugh]
The moral of the story? If we, as thoughtful members of the moto community, are willing to invest in training and educating new riders, we will ALL benefit. I like to think that I've kept my young, testosterone-driven nephew from becoming fodder for one of these "Sportbike Kills Rider" news stories. I've also given a young rider some of the tools he'll need to be a good motorcyclist. I hope he'll pay it forward to one of his friends or family.
Just give all those little wankers a cowbell!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhSkRHXTKlw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhSkRHXTKlw&feature=related)
If they can play the cowbell like Gene, they may be able to ride a bike ok
ok, my best friend just got a 2003 r6. He is 16. He is making payments on it. Its his first street bike. We have ridden dirtbikes together all out lives.
I am teaching him how to ride and he is being EXTREMLY responsible on it. I dont think he has even done over 70 mph.
He will only ride with me. he wont ride alone. I follow him, and give him advice. Then he followes me and observes how i do it.
He loves to ride, and so do I. Even though he is on a street legal racebike and im on a 150cc scooter.
I can whip his ass through the twisties if i want on the scooter, but i dont.
Yesterday he asked me to slow down a little, i remind you my scooter tops out at 60 mph. He reminded me that he has very little experience on such a machine.
He is very aware of the dangers of the bike. He saw the insides of my knee when i blew it apart, even waited at the hospital with me.
I let him borrow my leathers every time we ride. He is about to order his own set.
Im trying to make the point that not every 16yo with a fast bike is destin to die. Im sure he will have his fair share of accidents, but i believe this is the right way to do it, besides starting with a smaller bike.
Gimme an "M"
M
Gimme an "S"
S
Gimme an "F"
F
WHAT'S THAT SPELL???