Ducati Monster Forum

Much to my delight, our 13 year old daughter has lately become fascinated with playing around on the guitar. While for a long time it was just finger-picking "Mary Had A Little Lamb," she's suddenly decided she wants to learn to play more songs. Currently, she's working on the flatpicking standard "Liberty," though she constantly notes that she doesn't play it as fast as I do. That's OK, 'cause I don't play it nearly as fast as a real guitar player would!   [cheeky]

The one thing I'm wondering about, though -- she HATES tuning, and unless I tune it for her or insist on tuning it with her she's not even close. Like, several notes off. She says she doesn't mind that it sounds bad, even when we play together.

My dilemma is that if I turn into the intonation police, it feels like it's going to kill her interest in just sitting down and playing. If she really wants to play with other people, peer pressure & a desire to sound good and play along with the country pop tunes she loves will eventually teach her the value of everyone agreeing on what an A string should sound like. But in the meantime, I may be in for some dental work due to grinding teeth...

Should I: A) let it slide and just enjoy her enthusiasm for the instrument, B) insist that playing starts with tuning to instill good habits, or C) tune it for her when she's not playing, just to save my molars?

encourage, show her how to tune it once, but she needs to do it on her own. tuned or not tuned.

If she doesn't know what it's supposed to sound like, she's gonna be off if she really takes interest. Instill it now and try to explain to her why it's important. A few minutes tuning it is gonna be worth the effort. Hell, you could even get one of those digital ears that tell you when your E is an E...

Encourage her as much as possible. Buy a $20 electric tuner for her to use to make it a simple procedure but let her know she has to tune it every time before she starts. Once her ears are used to the guitar being tuned she'll know when her playing is out of key and she'll thank you. One piece of wisdom I once read somewhere was that you "play" a guitar not "work" it. Let her have fun!

Several thoughts:

13 years is a little late for the Suzuki "just have fun with it" approach to have a lasting benefit.  At 13 she already understands the relationship between work and progress.  It's time for some reward based management.  For example, offer "real" guitar lessons if she passes certain progress marks, like tuning to a meter, playing five songs and keeping a steady rhythm. 

If her strings are in fact "several notes off" relative to each other, she isn't even learning the relationship between strings and is probably doing her future as a guitar player more harm than good.  Having the instrument in tune with itself is essential to any progress.  Since she has to learn to tune to assure self-in-tuneness, she might as well tune to something close to concert pitch -- get her a tuning device.

Tuning to concert pitch from the begining will eventually give her a close sense of where to set the tuning just for her own use when not playing with other people.  This has at least two benefits: it will put her close when she has to tune with others and it will be best for the guitar (too tight is not good for the structure) and for the sound (too tight is thin, too loose is unfocused).

As she invests in acquiring knowledge about the instrument, how to tune and how to pick out a few songs, she will become increasingly committed to it -- this is a natural human reaction and is why I still have a '74 MGB.

(N.B.: This is all coming from a music school drop-out who still struggles to play in tune after 55 years on my instrument.)

Tommy T.

both answers are correct.

the fact that it's a kid makes me say you should tune it for her.  at first.  tuning a guitar sucks when you're a kid and don't know what you're doing it.  one of the single most frustrating activities to imagine.  think, synching 4 carbs with borrowed guages for the first time. 

but start to teach her to tune it.  maybe after she can play a "song" or two, let her play it out of tune.  it sounds like crap no matter how good you are.

and especially teach her to tune it because it's a good skil.  and it teaches you what "out of tune" sounds like.  in doing so, it will help to train her ear;  i.e. when she begins to learn/write music, she'll have a better idea of what sounds good and bad together and will be better equipped to learn/write music.

I couldn't even imagine trying to play anything without the guitar tuned.....even if it is an alternate tuning. Without it being tuned, it's worthless.........unless you play for the band "Sonic Youth".  :D

Quote from: Desmo Demon on July 30, 2008, 05:36:33 AM
.unless you play for the band "Sonic Youth".

they eventually learned how to tune.  true, they had about a dozen albums out first, but they learned

Tune it for her once, then let her do it.  If she needs help then lend a hand, but part of playing is tuning.  If it sounds bad she'll eventually want to learn how to tune it.  She'll want to play for/around/with her friends if she actually gets more into playing.  That will likely motivate her to learn how to tune. 

I don't play but I've been dragged into a number of conversations with my musical family members and they say that if one learns to play out of tune one will likely remain out of tune until re-taught otherwise.  This comes from people with doctorates in music, one of whom used to teach children to play piano.  As I understand, learning to tune is as much part of being a musician as being able to play the instrument(s) at hand.  /shrug

I am pretty much with the playing and recognizing in tune being a key part of being a musician crowd on this one.  As far as discouraging sloppy musicianship, have her try to play along with something on the radio, recorded, etc.  If the not being in tune to itself does not bother her, not being in tune (and trying to say, figure out how to play a melody) to whatever she is trying to figure out should.  It should sound bad, and be hard to figure out.
Also, tuning using harmonics (http://www.howtotuneaguitar.org/tuning/methods/#Harmonics) is usually an easier way to get a good tune for me, especially if the intonation is not perfect.  And if she's playing a decent guitar, it should not go out of tune that often.   Something else to think about - get her a guitar that can keep in tune.  Maybe try new strings first.
But I think you have the right philosophy - learning an instrument should not be a chore, but I think there are a few key things she's gotta work on and learn.

Get an electronic tuner, and start out by tuning it for her each time.

She will only stay motivated to play if there is a chance the notes sound good together.  She won't be able to learn properly if it is out of tune.

If she sticks with it, she will eventually want to learn to tune it herself.

I've played violin for a very long time, and I've always seen teachers tune the student violins for them at the beginning of the lessons (until the student is experienced enough).  The teachers encourage parents to do the same at home.  I studied for years before I learned how to tune it myself (this was before the days of electronic tuners).