Ducati Monster Forum

So after buying an 848 from Hattar I thought we'd be friends.
No.
I go in there to order a helmet after extensive hunting. AGV GP Tech. High crash rating, DOT, ECE, Super light all that. Plus it FITS  [clap].
Anyway, $600.
Kneedraggers.com has it for $482.  >:( I find out the next day. Many other places have it for $100 less.

I call Hattar to ask WTF?  They say they can't compete with the warehouses and go on to cry me a river. Ok $50. more for being a swanky dealer. I could deal with that. $120 more! Someone's pulling my chain. Sales boy went on to slime me with excuse after excuse not budging on price, not a penny.
That’s down right insulting. That’s a FIFTH of the cost of the helmet that’s supposed to be for the ‘service aspect of the sales experience.‘
I like the big screen TV there, but not enough to buy it if you know what I mean.
No way. I canceled the order. Am I wrong here? I’m all about buying local, just not getting reamed local.

Buyer beware!

you're are right, it's your money.

Drop Biker Goddess a line. She was mentioning something about an AGV-Big D merge.

If the prices were closer, hey, no problem.  I'd love to support the local shops.  But, you can always save BIG on most high-dollar parts/accessories on the internet.  Hattar doesn't budge on their parts/accessories, in my experience.  

I was surprised when they didn't give me 10-15% off parts on the day I bought my SECOND motorcycle from them.  That was the first time a dealership didn't give me a deal on the day I bought a bike.  Some manager there told me that their parts prices were already 10% lower than other dealerships, so they couldn't give discounts.  I checked around & I didn't find that to be the case...no more/no less.

My friend also bought an '07 S4R (his is the S) from the place in Santa Rosa and paid at least a few hundred less for his Termis.

I guess a lot of people in Marin don't really care about the price tag though.

I bought my SS from them and liked Valerie (who Bill sent out to "work" with me as we are both women).  I didn't haggle over the price AT ALL and bought the bike within 15 minutes of looking at it (it simply took longer as they couldn't locate the keys).  The only comment I have is that I think they should have comp'ed me the keychain that I bought along with the bike.  But at least Mike the Customer Service dude is awesome and always follows up with service that has been done!

They didnt throw in a keychain after you bought a bike!?  That seems a little silly. 
I have heard about some dealers throwing in a jacket or a helmet with the purchase of a bike. 

I went there after my bike go knocked over in the San Rafael court house.  $112 for a stock clutch lever  [roll]  the CRGs were cheaper...

Dainese acquired AGV recently so the D Store will begin carrying AGV helmets in October. I'm not sure about the selection of colors and graphics so ask Dainese Dan for the lowdown.

+1

Holy Jeebus!  I could swear Moto Meccanica in SR has stock levers for like $30.  Glad I don't head down to Marin to shop.

Back to the original post. 

The only thing I think you might be wrong about was the order in which you did things E.  You need to shop around first, then go in to the store, tell them what you can get "X" for and then ask what kind of deal the local shop can swing. 

I've really enjoyed my experience there.  Which means its probably for rookies.  More experienced riders will know size, mfg, and details enough to shop warehouse, online or ebay.  So, I happily pay some markup early in my carreer to get what appears to be decent tools and advice.  But, as Biker Goddess mentioned - as I get more into the gig, I learn more about the specialists who have the expertise and deals - like the Dstore in SF.  Which I learned about here ;D

Dealerships in my opinion were always on the high end of any price range - cars or bikes - service or parts.  But, they tended to offer ease and experience - like the earlier post on Michael.  I like Charles in sales and Ryan in Parts.  They have taken good care of me.  But, like I said - I am probably paying 10 - 20% more than I should for the ease and service of buying straight from the dealer.

johno

I bought a bike from them, and was generally satisfied. But yeah, I generally stay away from anything else there...except their excellent sale/discount section  [thumbsup]

dude -  i am seeing a trend here <RANT>  8)

did they at least kiss you before they f*cked you?  that would have been the decent thing to do.

anyway, i hate to hear of folks getting reamed, and even hate it more when the folks doing the reaming don't listen to the reamee, and then do the "right thing".  i guess they just don't understand something called "lifetime value" of customers, and as such, don't understand that when a customer gets reamed, they generally tell all their friends, and anyone else that will listen, about the reaming, and to avoid the reamers.

hope hattar does the right thing and either provides you with a price adjustment on this purchase, or will refund your money if you decide to cancel the order and re-order from a dealer with pricing more in line with fair market pricing.

a presto,
johnc

I don't know how you can say that after your recent Multi problems..

Yeah, I gotta go with everyone else on this one. Moto-Meccanica is way better on parts/acccessories stuff. Even better still if you buy a bike from them (or so they say, I can't prove it otherwise, cuz that's where I bought mine and haven't spoken to anyone who hasn't bought their bike there to see if the deal is better or not).

They are in the middle of re-organizing their workforce. Ely is moving from service to parts (damn! he ran service tight) new gal gonna be running service (first experience = not good, but not terrible, but we'll see...)

Owner is alright but not too knowledgeable but we have what we need here on the forum. After I picked up my bike from its 600mi, the maint indicator was still on, I called and asked how to reset it (was a noob to the S4RS at the time) and he told me some inane moniker for it like (N America Int'l!!) and it didn't mean MAINT!! WTF!!??  [roll] I googled it and dealt with it myself.  [thumbsup]

Their service is top notch though and my bike has never come back cleaner and without ANY damage than from them!  [clap]

I still think Michael is a stand-up guy.  I'm sure it's not easy to find good mechanics to work for him.

<RANT>

No dinner, no movie, not even a reach. I canceled order but now have "store credit"  [bang]
What do they have that I can't get anywhere else for way less?
<RANT\>
 

trade for cash to someone that needs to buy parts or stuff from them

Store Credit?  Seriously.. can't they in turn cancel the order?  If they already got the helmet,then I guess they punish you with store credit, but if not they are just being bastards.   Making you spend money there that you would obviously not want to spend.  Well I won't be going to Hattar for anything... ever.   [roll]

Who wants to spend $520 bucks at Hattar?

Hmm sounds tempting...
I hear they have that new AGV helmet in stock..  [cheeky]

Why would I only want to buy one boot?




 [cheeky]

I don’t really know who all of you are because of screen names, but I’m sure I’ve met a lot of you.  My name is Adeeb.  My brother Todd and I own and operate Hattar Motorsports.  So a couple of great customers were here at the shop yesterday, both Monster owners.  They both were a little bummed about this thread and told me to check it out.  Of course I did and now my first post ever.  Maybe my last if you guys boo me off the stage!
I think that as a consumer you have to make your own decisions.  If you are a great shopper and always seem to get the best deal on everything you buy, more power to you.  You will probably do well financially and maybe retire early.  The majority of us though are just looking to get a fair deal (not get ripped off) and know that the store will stand behind the product and greet us with a smile every time we come in.  As you can see at the link below, we didn’t overcharge you, or ream you as you put it.  We simply charged you what AGV thinks their product is worth.  Personally I think its worth more if you compare it to Shoei and Arai.  We didn’t mark it up one penny over MSRP.  It sounds like you expect us to shop every website around, find the lowest price and mark our stuff accordingly.  I can tell you that if we did that we wouldn’t last a year. 

http://www.agv.com/dyn_prod.php?p=GP_TECH_COMB_BLU&k=96953

We give everybody 10% store credit on every part or accessory that you buy here.  That would have been $60 store credit that you could use in Parts or Service.  That puts your price at $540, about $50 bucks more than kneedraggers.  Notice on kneedraggers site, on just about every item it says “Usually ships in 3 days”  That’s because they are probably a group of 3 guys that are in their garage with some catalogs.  When you order your AGV, they order it and when it comes to them in 3 days, they ship it to you.  They have no overhead or stock and can almost afford to live off of $60 profit on a $600 helmet.  You may not care, or say that we are “crying you a river”, but really we are just telling you the truth.  If you want to come to a garage with no big TV, pool table, no trained staff to help you buy the best product for your needs and of course no products to touch and try on, that’s what you’d get if we did business your way.  Thankfully for us there are enough people to help us create a cool atmosphere and a selection of high end products.  I can tell you though, these sites won’t be around for much longer.  I’d be more than happy to explain it to you if you want to come talk to me about it.
 
Listen, I’ve already rambled too much I'm sure.  The long and the short of it is that you have a choice in a free market.  You should shop where you're happy.  If getting the best deal is what you want, then by all means do it.  But please don’t bash us for asking MSRP on our products.  We’re not gouging anybody, but we do feel that the products we sell are worth every penny.  We treat everybody who comes in this store with respect and most would say they feel like family.  If you got this far in my “Rant”, thank you for reading.   By the way, you got store credit and not cash because we took a jacket back that you purchased (at MSRP!) 3 months earlier with your bike.  The jacket stitching was coming out and you deserved a new jacket.  You said you lost faith in the jacket and wanted something else instead.  We understood, conveyed your message to Ducati and gave you a full refund for store credit so you could buy an AGV.  Normally you would have either got a replacement jacket or a month of waiting for a repair.  We agreed with you and battled on your behalf and you got what you wanted. 
     

   

Regardless of the transaction that took place, giving store credit vs. a refund is now the issue. If a product was ordered, and a customer cancels the order... for whatever reason... then there should be no reason for you not to issue a refund of the purchase price. A restocking fee of reasonable percentage would more than likely be common, but to not refund any of the purchase price, and only issue a store credit, is wrong.

 Regardless of the customer's reason, they have requested a refund, and would like to purchase a different item/ from a different location/ whatever. You're essentially keeping their money, plain and simple. It has been made clear that they do not wish to purchase the item from you, so why not issue the refund and be done with it? It was a simple procedure, that would have only taken a minute to do, but now threatens the reputation and continuation of your business in the local motorcycle community.

You know what they say... "Have a good experience, they tell a few people. Have a bad one, they tell everyone." I highly doubt that would be good for anyone's business.

I think it's a very easy remedy to what could become an extremely volatile situation.

I know that you are trying to start with a clean slate, from the old location's issues...both internal and external. It would be in everyone's best interests if the slate were to be kept clean.

+ eleventy billion on what duckwrench13 wrote.

<marketeer_soapbox>
marketing/sales 101 for ANY business (not just hattar):
1. happy, shinny customers are a businesses best sales and marketing tool.
2. it typically costs a LOT less to keep a customer, than to obtain a new one.
3. consider the lifetime value of a customer ... always consider the long plan (if you have one)
</marketeer_soapbox>

DW

Desmostro failed to mention he purchased the helmet with store credit(not CC or cash). So when he canceled the order they just returned the store credit that he already had. And it looks like they took the jacket back on "good faith". I suppose they could have told him to go pound sand and take up the warranty with the mfg, but they didn't.

And as far as prices, that's business, Hattar has overhead that these small online folk don't. Some customers prefer buyer experience vs best price.,  I think one retail store told me one time, take the cost of the product online and add overnight shipping and that's how they compare prices. 

I'm going on the information given here. If he had a standing credit for $XXX, then I can understand Hattar's position. But as johnc pointed out...

Having to take a small hit on a margin (on one particular product) is a small thing to quibble over, especially considering profit made of off service, and bike sales. Example, from my personal experiences in the industry:

6K service on "another Italian brand" is a set rate of 6 hours, @ $88/hr. I can do a 6K, on this particular bike...without cutting corners... in 2.5 to 3 hours. Customer is still charged for a 6 hour job. do I see any more in my paycheck? No. Profits to the shop. This is not always the case. Sometimes that 6 hour job can be more like 10+ hours... all depending on the condition of the machine.

But to the point... It would be far less fuss to match a price, etc, for a returning customer, than it is to lose that customer, and possibly lose a few more in the process.

Personally, I won't shop there, so I really don't care how they conduct themselves.

Ya all that. But, I went out of my way and just bought a brand new SBK there, when I live a mile from another dealer because my first Ducati was from there. Gee, am I not a decent customer? No, yes? Why all the hassle?

I was very reasonable in all the discussions about the jacket, the helmet etc. on the phone and in the store. Hattar would not budge on policy or a penny on any of it. I called about the jacket the first month I got it and got an earful, and a sales pitch, and a not our problem we're going to send it away. So I took my time coming in.
Then the helmet at MSRP is understandable, but your competition is WAY below that. Over $100. When someone's not happy with that, some who spends thousands with you. You can't do ANYTHING on the price? $50? Nothing? A gesture? Store credit just means I have to spend more there.

That's a bit lame IMO being so inflexible. So I'm telling people how I feel about it. Sorry guys, I'm not happy;
bottom line, I'm not seeing equal effort on your part.

I went in there once to check the place out, and had a pretty good experience. One of the sales guys Knew just about everything there was to Know about the Superbikes and the 696. I usually go to Moto Mechanica because its way closer to me, But a friend of mine bought his 848 from Hattar and had nothing bad to say about them.

Here's my Hattar story...

I like a sweater Ducati has called the Company Sweater, but no one seems to have it in stock.  All I really wanted was to know was if there was a way to see the sweater, to see what size I really needed, and to try it on, because truthfully, a lot of times clothes just don't look right on you.  So there was no way I would commit that kind of money without being able to try it on first.  Again, I wasn't asking for a discount, and  I certainly wasn't asking Hattar to compete against an online store. 

What I was told was sure, simply purchase it in advance, pay for it in full, and if you don't like it, we'll charge you a 35% restocking fee.  I have never been back since.

To be fair, I think Ducati imposes that kind of situation on all their dealers. Their apparel is expensive. And dealers don't want to carry a lot of stock. So the dealers order what they think they'll sell, and leave the other stuff (like your sweater) for special orders. This puts us American customers in a bind because (A) Ducati apparel sometimes doesn't fit well and (B) restocking fees suck. Bad situation all around, but made worse by having to pay top-dollar for the privilege of wearing their brand.

I won't comment directly on Desmostro's situation, other than to say that keeping a customer like him happy, within reason, is almost always good business. We're a tight community in the Ducati world, and news of bad experiences travels fast. I have, however, noticed that Hattar has changed a bit. There's more of an emphasis on the very high-end accessories and apparel. The last time I was in there, I was a bit taken aback at the prices. We're all sensitive to that these days, as energy costs soar and inflation rears its ugly head. So yes, when I go someplace to look for levers, shifters, clutch covers, pipes, apparel, and any other larger-ticket item, I'm going to be more price-sensitive than if I'm looking for a $5 bottle of cleaning fluid.

Adeeb, thanks for posting up and attempting to address this. I think everyone appreciates it when folks in local retail participate here. But keep in mind that Hattar is held to a high standard on this board precisely because you guys have traditionally been a great alternative to certain other Ducati dealers in the area. I don't know if you've seen some folks' rants about dealers (which shall remain nameless here) both here and on the legacy board, but they were pretty merciless  ;D You and Todd would do well to take a look at those and try to understand that perspective. If I were in your position (e.g. running a retail business) I'd be very interested in those.

Joe

Adeeb, great response!  I definitely always feel like family when I walk into Hattar.  The staff is definitely cool and the atmosphere is among the best of any m/c shop I've been to (because of the people).  If the jacket was 3 months old, he wouldn't have gotten cash back...he shouldn't have gotten cash back if that was the credit he used for the helmet.  If...if...if...

Interesting to know how this gonna pan out.
Planning on going there on my way to the Duc this Monday.
in second thought, I'm staying away from the store for now.

707

moral of this story is that when it comes to accesories and such you will always find them easier and cheaper on  the net, the dealer can't compete with this,

the dealer has them there for you to try on but can't possibly compete with a wharehouse of just helmets and such sold cheaper... simple as that.

the OP forgot this and thought "they would give him a deal" it doens't work like that.  you should have known that, so crying about the helmet being too expensive is just the classic buyer beware next time. live it and learn.

Typically when you buy an expensive bike, one gets something thrown in, or better treatment in the future. This is not an exorbitant request.

If I'm buying a Ducati from a dealer, and I see a Ducati shirt I like, they *will* throw that in. Or they'll give me a discount on gear, and they will most definitely fill my tank and throw in a key fob if I want one.

If they don't? I'll find someone who will. They are a dealer-they should not be surprised by people apending 15K or so asking for them to knock something off the price of a helmet or similar things, especially when it comes to a whopping $50. It's not enough to whine about-it's the principle of the thing. I'm giving you my business by choice-help me out, or I'll find someone else.