Simultaneously the worst and best article I've ever read: http://tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/article750838.ece
"... The driver's door was open and a woman was slumped over in her seat, sobbing. She was an investigator for the Florida Department of Children and Families. 'Unbelievable," she told Holste. "The worst I've ever seen.'
'I've been in rooms with bodies rotting there for a week and it never stunk that bad,...It sounded like you were walking on eggshells. You couldn't take a step without crunching German cockroaches,' the detective said.
At his feet, something stirred. First he saw the girl's eyes: dark and wide, unfocused, unblinking. She wasn't looking at him so much as through him.
dude. that was the best article ive read in years. i really dont know what to say.
Quote from: He Man on August 03, 2008, 11:39:32 PM
dude. that was the best article ive read in years. i really dont know what to say.
It's an extraordinary story. There is a slide show, too: http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2008/reports/danielle/
The screen capture is of her with her adopted brother William. He drives, she toots the horn.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm47/roy-nexus-6/girlinthewindow.jpg)
wow.
good read.
one thing, though:
"Radio ahead to Tampa General," the detective remembers telling his partner. "If this child doesn't get to a hospital, she's not going to make it."
how long had she been in that situation and NOW they have to hurry her to the hospital or "she's not going to make it"? [roll]
^^^ it's not like the police were the one's keeping her in that situation. The system is broken, which shouldn't be news to anyone.
Great article. I'm glad the reporter went back an interviewed the biological mother. It was an interesting read, sad, but interesting. Amazing that feral children still occur in a modern civilization.
WTF!?!
OMG I would have had a hard time not shooting that whole family for the way that girl ended up!
i feel sadness, anger, and happiness from reading that article...
i am hopeful for dani's future.
thanks for posting it roy-nexus-6 :)
Quote from: NAKID on August 04, 2008, 10:19:09 AM
WTF!?!
OMG I would have had a hard time not shooting that whole family for the way that girl ended up!
i'm sure ANYONE who reads it will feel that way...
...try feeling happy for dani instead... she's with a family who will love her now.
i'm glad the girl got away from that situation, but no amt of love and care when she was a baby would have changed the fact that she has an iq of 50. she would have required constant attn and help her whole life anyways, they just would have had an early start on getting her functional.
the mother has an IQ of 77, borderline retarded, why wasn't she spayed a long time ago?
she also needs to be strung up and horsewhipped for putting a human through that. [bang]
I'll refrain from making any judgments about the mother because it might not be pretty.
I think for me, the most beautiful part of that story is the small bit about Dani's new brother giving up his room, his toys, his clothes and sleeps in the scariest places just for his new sister. It tells you how much Dani invokes the most basic caring response from even young kids and how selfless is her brother. Beautiful story.
Quote from: KnightofNi on August 04, 2008, 01:24:17 PM
i'm glad the girl got away from that situation, but no amt of love and care when she was a baby would have changed the fact that she has an iq of 50.
The '50' might not be that accurate - I.Q tests rely on completing language & mathematical tasks in a certain period of time. Dani has trouble sitting still for longer than 5 mins, & has tremendous trouble on focusing on a given task. And the real problem is her brain isn't wired in a conventional manner now - she never made the neural connections she needed for speech. That damage may or may not be repairable. :(
Quote from: DuCaTiNi on August 04, 2008, 10:26:00 AM
thanks for posting it roy-nexus-6 :)
Welcome! [thumbsup]
Quote from: jclin on August 04, 2008, 02:44:00 PM
I think for me, the most beautiful part of that story is the small bit about Dani's new brother giving up his room, his toys, his clothes and sleeps in the scariest places just for his new sister. It tells you how much Dani invokes the most basic caring response from even young kids and how selfless is her brother. Beautiful story.
+11tyb [thumbsup]
Quote from: KnightofNi on August 04, 2008, 01:24:17 PM
i'm glad the girl got away from that situation, but no amt of love and care when she was a baby would have changed the fact that she has an iq of 50. she would have required constant attn and help her whole life anyways, they just would have had an early start on getting her functional.
the mother has an IQ of 77, borderline retarded, why wasn't she spayed a long time ago?
she also needs to be strung up and horsewhipped for putting a human through that. [bang]
I think it's hard to know if that 50 IQ was a given at birth or if it happened because of her lack of socialization.
Quote from: KnightofNi on August 04, 2008, 01:24:17 PMthe mother has an IQ of 77, borderline retarded, why wasn't she spayed a long time ago?
Because in a humane and civil society, we don't practice eugenics.
It never works, anyway.
Quote from: DCXCV on August 04, 2008, 05:08:48 PM
I think it's hard to know if that 50 IQ was a given at birth or if it happened because of her lack of socialization.
isn't IQ somethign that you are born with? it never changes (unless you suffer a head trauma)
Quote from: KnightofNi on August 05, 2008, 04:45:48 AM
isn't IQ somethign that you are born with? it never changes (unless you suffer a head trauma)
I believe that's true...
the problem is the 'tools' they use to measure assume education and socialization.
Quote from: ducpainter on August 05, 2008, 04:57:24 AM
I believe that's true...
the problem is the 'tools' they use to measure assume education and socialization.
+1
Humans need socialization and affection and such at the early stages of life for the brain to wire properly and get to its full potential. These tests are meant to measure IQ if that happens.
Quote from: DCXCV on August 04, 2008, 05:08:48 PM
I think it's hard to know if that 50 IQ was a given at birth or if it happened because of her lack of socialization.
Do they administer IQ tests to some people at birth? I wonder how the heck anyone could determine what signs of a high IQ are at such a young age.
Quote from: KnightofNi on August 05, 2008, 04:45:48 AM
isn't IQ somethign that you are born with? it never changes (unless you suffer a head trauma)
I would say it's more likely you're born with a potential IQ. Some people have a lower potential than others, but all that social interaction is required to start the developement. The story said the doctors didn't find her to be autistic nor did they have any other medical explanation for her condition.
The only way to test the theory is to take a control group of babies and isolate them from all interaction for seven years, leave them in a dark closet, not let them outside, and see if they all end up like this girl or not. I just don't think you can take this girl's formative years out of the equation. The only two other people on record as having a similar childhood had similar problems. Kinda makes me think that nurture played more of a role than nature.
That's just my internet expert opinion, though.
Quote from: DCXCV on August 05, 2008, 09:01:16 AM
I would say it's more likely you're born with a potential IQ. Some people have a lower potential than others, but all that social interaction is required to start the developement. The story said the doctors didn't find her to be autistic nor did they have any other medical explanation for her condition.
The only way to test the theory is to take a control group of babies and isolate them from all interaction for seven years, leave them in a dark closet, not let them outside, and see if they all end up like this girl or not. I just don't think you can take this girl's formative years out of the equation. The only two other people on record as having a similar childhood had similar problems. Kinda makes me think that nurture played more of a role than nature.
That's just my internet expert opinion, though.
YOU'RE WRONG AND YOU SHOULD DIE!!!!
[/internet opinionationating]
i can understand that not having any contact would definately keep you from reaching your potential, but the woman was borderline and she already had a son that was mentally handicapped. i'm going with the odds on that one when i say that i don't think it would have had much of an effect.
but i stand by my theory that the mom should have been spayed. i realize it's easier to say this in hindsight, so i'll just have to wait until a time machine is invented.
Quote from: KnightofNi on August 05, 2008, 04:45:48 AMisn't IQ somethign that you are born with? it never changes (unless you suffer a head trauma)
No, not at all. IQ is whatever is being measured on a particular IQ test. It changes over time on the same instrument and certainly across different tests. Results are highly dependent on how a given test is structured and on the test conditions for an individual administration, including how well-rested, nourished, and hydrated the subject is at that moment.
For example, the Slosson is entirely verbal. The examiner speaks the questions (one is "what is uxoricide?", another is to recite a string of numbers and ask which one comes next, etc.) and the examinee speaks the answers. If you're deaf or mute, you don't do well at all. If you aren't a very auditory person or if you do better with pencil and paper, you won't do terribly well on the Slosson. The Raven Advanced Progressive Matrices, by contrast, is completely non-verbal. It presents a matrix of 3 figures (to start with, say, a circle divided into quarters with different figures shading different quadrants) then asks which one comes next. They get progressively really hard. You could be a completely deaf-mute autistic person and conceivably do very well on it. When I was doing research, we'd often get wildly divergent results on those particular two tests.
Some tests are timed, which rewards efficiency but also inspired guessing. Some tests keep going until you make a certain number of errors in a row. Some are highly cultural - I took the California Test of Mental Maturity in high school for Mensa entry, and several items included cartoon drawings of what I eventually figured out were supposed to be adding machines and (room-sized) computers. I seriously doubt my kid would recognize them at all today. Then there's the whole language issue. I suspect my "IQ" is different in English, German, and Latin (from high to low) and that I'm profoundly retarded in Swahili or Urdu. Some tests measure education more than innate ability. An extremely intelligent person who never attended school might well not be able to define "uxoricide" or "plutocracy," items that were easy for me simply because I took Latin.