Ducati Monster Forum

Hey guys.... I've been looking for a track bike for a while now and think I've settled on a ride but have a few questions.

The bike I picked up (we wrote a contract that if it doesn't check out in 7 days I can return it for a refund) is a '02 GSX-R 600.  I decided on this bike because I've had one before, loved the way it handled and fit me.  I've never had one in this state of tune though.  It's a factory Suzuki race bike delivered with a notice of ownership (read: never a streetbike).  It was prepped by Arclight racing and used as a back-up bike for one season, then sold off to a guy that used it for track days.  It was then sold again to another guy that used it for trackdays.  As far as I can tell by it's log it's gotten around 15 trackdays on it since it was sold by the race team. 

Now, here's the question.   The team said that the bike was never raced, but the motor might have a few races on it.  Good solid answer there, I know..... Ha, ha.  That plus the 15-ish track days.  Anything I should be looking for in the motor.  I doubt it was ridden hard by the second two owners.  Both were new to track days.  How long can I expect this motor to last?  Unfortunately I don't have any info about it's internals.  It seems to run strong, quiet and smooth.  It's a bit flat until 10k rpm's which I attributed to bigger cams and headers than the stock bike (definitely less grunt down low than a stock street bike).

I plan on pulling plugs tonight and doing  a compression test, then pulling the valve cover and having a look at the cams and valve clearance.  Anything else I should look for?

Buying this bike 4th hand makes me a bit nervous.  I hate not knowing exactly what's in the motor.  The only real solid answer I got is that you have to run it on race gas and that the guys with Arclight weren't too forth coming about the motor internals.  Sweet specifics, eh?

Other than that the bike is NICE!!!  Fox fully adjustable shocks, Traxxion dynamics rebuilt forks,  full yosh ti-exhaust.  The frame, fork, motor all look exceptionally clean once the body work is removed and it seems to ride great from my limited, on the street, road test.  It's also nice that the previous owner was my size and had the suspension set up.  That saves me a bit of time.  Plus new tires means that if the motor checks out I'll be on the track with it in no time.

Thanks in advance, guys.

Engine builders will never tell you the internals - they don't wanna give up any secrets.

The engine was likely swapped from another bike that had done some races, maybe crashed  - who knows?

How was the bike built?  For FX? SS? I would imagine SS since you said Traxxion internals.  Given that I would imagine the engine is just fine.  However, don't pay too much for the bike, just because it was prepped by Arclight doesn't make it worth than $3500-$4000.

Also, it sucks that you have to run race gas cause that shit is expensive!!!!!!!!!!

Heh, 10 bux a gallon for 110 octane at Barber this weekend.... yikes!

Heh, try MR9 - even worse.

"built by arclight" doesn't carry much weight given the last time chuck touched it was probably 5 years ago.

if it was an arclight bike from '06 or '07, it'd raise my eyebrow. not so much for a 6 year old scoot.

that said, he builds good bikes. if it was properly maintained over the last half-decade, i'm sure you'll be happy (as long as you don't keep track of your fuel bill  :o).

Ha, ha, ha... Thanks guys.  I think it was prepped for SS also.  Unfortunately, having not bought the bike directly from Arclight I really don't know much about it other than what I can gather by inspecting it myself.  It appears to be all there and seems to run good.  Like I said, I don't think it was ever run really hard.  By his own admission the last owner said he struggled to keep the bike in it's powerband.  He said he'd regularly look down and see it turning 6k.  That probably doesn't get it making much power.  Kind of an upside to that, too, is the fact that he never turned a wrench on it except to change the oil.  The less inexperienced hacking, the better.

Word through the last two owners was that (now this is murky) it was a spare bike, the motor might have seen a couple races.  It apparently has never been down hard, but has some bits and pieces that have obviously touched the ground (frame sliders, gas tank and plastics have all had some love).  Apparently this bike had been sacraficed on a few occasions for parts, then reassembled with what they had around at the end of the year.  Like I said, it looks to be all together and doesn't have any real hard parts damage. 

The price was OK.  Sub $4k.  I don't expect to make money on it, just get a couple years out of it, then sell it for something newer.

Good choice CIE. That bikes sounds alot like one I was looking at B4 I bought mine (2 different bikes, I know that for sure) The one I was looking at was also a Factory racer. The guy had lots of extra parts for it. He  also wanted a premium dollar.

Sounds like U got a fair deal.  Its a gamble when it comes to a track bike tho,, especially when its been passed around.
Post up when U get your compression test done.

How do the gear boxes hold up on these GSXR's ?

Good luck, have fun.

Sooo, went home last night, took the bike apart.  Everything looks good with the fairings off.  I'd say the bodywork has the most wear of everything.  I didn't have a compression guage with a 12mm (12? hmm) thread, so I had to wait till this morning to grab one from the shop.  Hopefully I'll get the compression test done tonight and then pull the valve cover to have a look inside.

As far as I can tell the bike has a 14/45 sprocket set-up right now.  The previous owner said he was having trouble getting into 6th gear at the local tracks.  I'd appreciate some input on this one.  I'll probably buy a few sprockets to take to the track with me.  What do you guys think is a safe spot to start.  Thunderhill and Infineon are my home tracks.

I'll take a few pics tonight and post them. 

that should probably read 'most american tracks'.  if you're in california probably the only place you'll hit 6th is big willow and fontana.  never been to thunderhill but certainly nothing to worry about at infineon.

Alright... So I was wrong on the gearing.  The bike currently has a 16/45 which I believe is the stock sprockets.  I think I'll be dropping to a 15 in the front to try to get a bit more punch.

Still looking for a compression guage for a 10mm spark plug hole.  I'm going to have to visit some of my moto mechanic friends.  None of my automotive guages go small enough.  Hopefully tonight or tomorrow.

Yep, that is stock gearing. Check this site.

http://www.gearingcommander.com

Yup, I ordered a 15 tooth countershaft sprocket last night.  I figure that'll be good enough to get me out on the track and I can work on the rear sprocket from there.

Checked compression last night.  Numbers looked good.  Engine was cold, so there was a bit of inconsistency, but nothting that concerned me. 1) 180 2) 165 3)180 4)175

Valve clearance was all in spec, too.  Closer to the looser end of spec, which I'm happy with.  It'll make a bit less power, but should go further before the next valve adjustment that way.

Otherwise, so far, so good. I'll be putting the bike back together over the next few nights and then it'll be off to the track.  Can't wait.

Hey guys....

Taking her out for her maiden voyage at Button Willow on Monday.  Anybody have any tire pressure input.  I'm expecting 80 degree temperatures.  I've got D208 GP soft front and a medium rear on the bike right now.  I was thinking I'd start with 29 front and 31 rear.  There wont be a Dunlop guy at the track (only Pirelli).  Whatcha' think?

probably about right.  but i would call the Sport Tire guys and ask them.  they're always cool about answering such things.

1-800-776-8473


*also on the site, too.  but you're a better man than I if you can fully comprehend that chart.

30/30 on the tire pressure.  The bike frickin' rocks. The handling is nutts.  I'm still noticing that it's down a bit of power from what I'm expecting.  It pulls really well if nobody is in my way, but if I get hung up behind a slower rider I get worked down the straights.  I really need to get this bike on the dyno and see how it looks.  I'm not sure if it's lost bottom end because of the way it's tuned or if it's because it's not running right.  Running with my buddies '05 600rr street bike he'd pull me pretty good.  Maybe 3 bike lengths on a straight.

Such an improvement over my Monster on the track, though.  Way more comfortable and much faster.  My second session in intermediate I got stopped by a instructor and was told to move up to advanced.  I told him it was my second motorcycle trackday, first at that track and first on this bike.  He cut me some slack, but I'll be riding A group at my next outing. 

Weee... Yay suzuki.   Ha, ha, ha.

are you riding the gsxr like your monster? all the power is in the upper 30% of the rev range. rev the piss out of it. you're gonna have to shift a lot more to keep it in the power than you did on your monster.

that said, a "new" 600 vs an "old" 750 is probably more of an even match than you'd expect.

I'm not quite sure I'm understanding this, but are you basically saying that if you get a shitty drive off the corner, you lose speed on the straight?

If so, nothing's wrong with the bike, that's just how it goes.  Shitty drive = crappy top speed on the following straight.

Nope.... Reving the snot out of it.  Rev limiter is at 15k.  Found it a couple times right before the entrance of the bus stop and on the exit of two.

Daryl... yup, exactly.... Shitty drive off the corner and it's got not grunt.  If I got bunched up going into a corner before a straight and couldn't get a good drive it feels like a dog.  On a couple occasions we'd get bunched up and I'd notice the other 600's would pull me with the same crappy drive off the corners.  Older 600's.  Same-ish era R6's and such.  It made working through packs hard.  I could easily pick off the litre bikes if I could slow my corner entrance and get a killer drive off the apex and onto the straights.   When I did that in groups though all it did was open the door for someone else to come around me on the brakes and kill my drive, again.  Out by myself it seems to run really strong.  I was having a blast with the instructor that told me I should move up.  He was on a new R1, though and worked through the big groups with a lot more ease when we ran up on them.

With a good drive off the corner it feels like a rocket and pulls very hard from 11k- or there abouts.  I'm just curious if bigger headers, and cams would take away the bottom end like that.  I think the bike should pull really strong from around 8-9k.

Oh well,  I think I'll opt to run in A group next time.  There's nothing I hate more than people coasting into corners on their 1k's, holding you up, then blasting down the straights.  People just park their bikes in the corners. 

that really doens't sound too out of the ordinary to me. i'd either rethink my shifting or alter my gearing to keep it over 11k on corner exits.

Hmm, well that's strange, but if you're keeping a 750 of that era over 10k, you should have plenty of power at your disposal.  If you have a chance to get it on a dyno it might not be a bad idea (might want to tune it for pump gas while you're at it too).


That's kinda how a 1000 has to be ridden.  They're very much point and shoot bikes, corner speed ain't their thing.  You'll still run into that in the A group a bit, but given your bike's weight and suspension, you shouldn't be able to corner any better than they can really, so it might be better when you're dealing with better riders in that scenario.

Did you ever get any specific info on *which* race gas to run?

'Cause if you're running a lot more octane than you need, some of your power is disappearing there.

Yeah, I guess you can get away with the point and shoot thing with the big bikes, but if you ride a 1k like it's a momentum bike you'll be straight hauling.  I guess I shouldn't expect track day intermediates to be pushing their bikes around like that, but IMO, if you can't corner a bike and learn to get a good drive off a corner then you shouldn't be riding a 1k.  To each their own I guess.  I'm intimidated by running in the A group since I've got so few track days on a bike, but the more time I get the more I realize it's all the same game as running a car on the track (I've been racing/tracking/teaching in cars since I was 16 so I'm kind of a sandbagger in the B groups, but I didn't want to get over my head).  I probably should just nut up and ride with the big boys.  At the very least hopefully I'll learn something following faster riders around.

Speeddog and Derby... You guys are right on with the gas.  I'm really just not sure what's going on inside the motor.  I don't know what the compression is or what the motor really needs in terms of octane. I definitely wouldn't mind tuning it to run on pump gas.  I spent close to a hundred dollars on gas on monday alone.  I'm running 110 right now which is probably overkill.  I think I need to spend some time finding a shop that can dyno and set up the fuel/spark curve.

Thanks for the input guys.  I know you can't give me much over the internet.  Pretty hard to tell if a bike is running right without throwing a leg over it.

That's just the thing, you wouldn't be.  You can't get on the gas nearly early enough to make a 1000 act like a 600.  If you do, you'll be orbiting the planet in short course.  The basic formula is this: brake late as make the beast with two backs, turn, hammer the gas when you've got enough of a contact patch.

sidenoteish: they claim that new ktm rc8 can be ridden like a 600 in the corners.

you carry 600cc cornerspeed on any of the current 1000s. it's the getting on the throttle that's the scary part.  ;D

I don't see why you can't carry momentum on a 1k the same as a 600. You just have to be more careful about putting down the power on the exit.  Only think I didn't like with my 1k bikes was that there was a ton of motor inertia.  I'm sure the newer 1k's with slipper clutches are much easier to ride fast.

complete threadjack.  My Husky got a little work done at my local husky/ktm shop and I rode a superduke.   Man, I want one of those - that thing is illegal fun!

oh really...

Yeah dude, the Husky is alive and kicking (ass).  It ain't glamorous, but it's fun (and LOUD as hell). 

There's a place in Pasadena called Eric's M/C shop.  He's got a bit of a rep for being an asshole, but he's nice as hell to me and they do good, quick, honest work so I like them.  Anyhow, that superduke is oh so cool.

I've known Eric for over 30 years... you don't have a shop for that long doing shoddy work.  [thumbsup]

Yep.  He knows his shit and his mechanic Brett is awesome too.  I dropped the Husky off at 9am, they had called me by 3pm telling me it was ready and it was WAY easier than what I thought the problem was gonna be.  How could I be mad about that?