Ducati Monster Forum

Here how I handle this issue  [coffee]

Pick a 2008 1098 Showa (used with 10.000kms and Service done [oil and seals]) From Italy
(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/454/1098showafork.png)

Clipons from Performance Parts - 53mm clamp (new) - From Germany
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8330/dsc02153k.jpg)

Front wheel - 5 spokes with 25mm bearings (inner diameter) - (new) - From Italy
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2348/dsc02741g.jpg)

Shim for front axle - 30mm inner diameter, 35mm outer diameter, 44mm wide (machined in 15 minutes  [thumbsup] )
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4271/dsc02762q.jpg)

Spacer 4,5mm wide/thickness (didn´t measure them  [bang] ) - From Spain
(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4889/dsc02783bj.jpg)

Shim for lower triple clamp - 165x60mm 0,5mm wide/thickness - From Portugal  ;D
(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/575/dsc02208f.jpg)

Top Triple Clamp for Monster with 53 SBK fork from SPEEDYMOTO USA
(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1660/dsc01948hi.jpg)

So, after get all these parts together... let´s play  [evil]

9:34 AM
Go to your bike shop with your M696 (let the extra stuff at home)
(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5518/dsc02728le.jpg)

Don´t forget to bring literature  ;D
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5669/dsc02731e.jpg)

After disassemble the headlight (only 2 screws), start to take off the handlebar...
(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4295/dsc02734b.jpg)

... then the top triple.
(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/407/dsc02735k.jpg)

Place the new Top Triple
(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7395/dsc02739.jpg)

Insert the shim in the lower triple and one fork leg  ;D
(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/575/dsc02208f.jpg)
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/400/dsc02737b.jpg)

Repeat to the other one.
(http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2136/dsc02738j.jpg)

Put wheel in it´s place and also clipons and...
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2348/dsc02741g.jpg)
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/2372/dsc02743z.jpg)

...  [bang] forgot about the front axle need a shim (10:34 AM)

So, after negociate with the machinery man  ;D
Here I´m at 10:59 AM
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4468/dsc02744f.jpg)
(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9273/dsc02748r.jpg)
(http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/5870/dsc02750e.jpg)
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4391/dsc02756.jpg)
(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4850/dsc02757d.jpg)
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5589/dsc02758x.jpg)

11:17 AM - Back to playground  [bow_down]
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4271/dsc02762q.jpg)

A little cut to perfect fit.
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6011/dsc02765f.jpg)

How it looks
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9766/dsc02795v.jpg)
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3763/dsc02796nb.jpg)

Place the spacers between discs and wheel
(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4889/dsc02783bj.jpg)
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3755/dsc02793c.jpg)

Fit the axle
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/364/dsc02787.jpg)

Assemble everything - 12:50 AM
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7796/dsc02780s.jpg)

Go for a test ride
(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1795/dsc02798t.jpg)

Result
(http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/1915/dsc02805n.jpg)


Now, fine tune:
(http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/1381/dsc02810h.jpg)
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7596/dsc02812r.jpg)
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5157/dsc02816u.jpg)
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2986/dsc02817l.jpg)
(http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/3216/dsc02820et.jpg)

You can follow me @ http://desmodromicamente.blogspot.com/ (http://desmodromicamente.blogspot.com/)

I would like to thank´s to all of those who contribute for this project of my M696 pjfa Edition  [thumbsup]

 [clap] [clap] Awesome job, great write-up!  [bow_down] [bow_down]

great resultsss!!!! thumbs upppp

Did the fork swap require you to change out the 696 brakes and/or rotors for the 1098's?

Ive been told this is a necessary swap for the 1098 forks to work on the 696.

I didn´t change them because I use some spacer between the rotors and the wheel:
(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4889/dsc02783bj.jpg)

Here you can see it fited:
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3755/dsc02793c.jpg)

Will the 1098 axle work on the stock 696 front wheel? Too big?

I just got a pair of 1098 forks with lower triple and axle.... Do I still need to use 696 axle and make shim, or can I skip that and just use the axle that came with the forks?

Hi,

Sorry for answer only now  [thumbsup]
Well, I don´t know but look´s like there is no issue fitting the sbk axle in the M696 wheel.
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7199/sbkaxle.png)
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7854/m696axle.png)

Hey all, I’ve got a question I’d like to float out there in the hope one of you more experienced modders can answer it for me. It appears to me, just by looking at the schematics of the triples, forks, brake and wheel assemblies that there is no need for rotor spacers with the 1098 forks if you retain the stock 696 wheel. Here is my line of logic, Pjfa replaced the stock 696 wheel with a different one which makes me wonder if the width of the wheel hub is the same as the stock 696 wheel, can anyone answer this? If there is a width difference between the two wheel hubs I can see the need for rotor spacers so the rotors line back up with the brake calipers. The reason I bring this up is because the stock 696 axel is retained in the fork swap which tells me the overall width of the brake and wheel assembly stays the same as the factory tolerances. I know that there is a 1mm difference in the fork tubes (53mm for the 1098 forks vs 54mm for the 696forks) and because of this there will be a 1mm increase in the inner and outer measurements between the fork tubes. If the axel bolts directly back up, which it appears that it does, keeping in mind the addition of an axel spacer for the right fork leg, I don’t see how there would be a need for the rotor spacers if everything associated with the wheel and brake assemblies bolts back up to the factory specifications. Has anyone else ran into this problem and can you explain the need for the spacers? Also, if rotor spacers are still required, has anyone been able to identify the thickness they need to be? I see in the post they need to be 45mm wide so the bolt pattern for the rotors can be drilled, I just haven’t been able to find any information on the thickness for the spacers. Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on my seemingly overcomplicated dilemma. –ReapeR696

I sure hope this logic is true.... That would eliminate the need for me to machine any parts other than making the top triple wider.... That would make the 1098 fork install a direct one as long as you have the 1098 axle, lower triple, and a top triple to fit

Doworkson, I guess we'll find out [thumbsup]. I haven't had a chance to test out my theory yet, still waiting on the UPS guy to deliver my triple. Hopefully i didn't overlook anything but i've been known to make a miscalculation or two, i'm pretty novice at bike building [bang]. I'll post up a report once i get the rest of my few remaining parts and find a chance to work on my bike. What type of bars are you going to be using, clipons or another style? I picked up a set of Renthals from flebay last week i'm hoping will fit the bill. Best of luck with your build. -ReapeR696

ok,

have SBK forks on the way. I have no axle. should i buy an M696, M1100 or SBK axle. seems the sbk would be the right one due to the bigger size, ie not needing the out shim on the clamp. but still not sure about the spacers on the wheel. I'm using the stock 696 wheel.

also, for the bolts for the brakes with spacers, did you buy longer ones or are the stock ones long enough?

Hi Raux, I´ve used the standart bolts.  [thumbsup]

I will be able to let you know by the end of the weekend on this... Just got the stock front end off and am in the process of mounting up the 1098 forks... Mine came with the axle and lower triple...

What I noticed, and not sure why, is that the 1098 axle is shorter than the 696's.... Not sure if I am not looking at something wrong or what, but it looks about a half an inch shorter...

I still need to get it bolted up, so I will let you know if the 1098 axle works as well as needing/not needing the spacers for rotors

HOLD ON. pretty sure you can't use that lower triple.

Why not?

Oh and I was mistaken about the axle lengths.. They are the same

pretty certain the offset is different.

do the axles have the same profiles as well? could you take a pic of them side by side?

The axles are different... And so is the spacing... Here is what I found. If the 1098 Axle is used, with the 696 stock wheel, and the 30MM spacer, then the right side brake caliper lines up and bolts on, but the left side is slightly offset.

After much pondering I measured the axles and spacers on the axles and here is what I found... 

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/Pic1.png)

The stock axle as a 20 MM spacer on the right(left on drawing) and then the removable 30 MM spacer on left(right on drawing).

The 1098 Axle has a 14MM spacer on the right, and then the removable 30 MM spacer on the left.

So, I am thinking, that if you cut the 30MM spacer by 6 MM to 24MM, then it will all be even just as it is with the 696 axle, thus allowing the left side caliper to line up and be bolted on....

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/pic2.png)

Anyone have any ideas or see anything wrong with this thinking???

Cutting the spacer should allow to caliper to move slightly in and line up with the left side fork.

All these measurement are approximate and done with tape measure, I need to get a set of calipers to get the fine measurements....


As far as the lower triple.... It is very close in fit and I think it might work, but at not 100%. I will not know till I get everything buttoned up and look.... I am going to have shims made for the stock lower just in case.... Everything seems just about aligned, and the differences in offset are very slight... But, I will know for sure once I get the top triple machined out and start putting everything back together.

i would think you would need to add a 6mm space to the 14mm side of the 1098 axle to make it straight. also, i think the monster is a 30mm lower triple offset and the superbike is 25mm so a 5mm difference is too much. better to just shim the stock triple.
i remember this issue when i was looking at getting a streetfighter triple.
but i dont have the pieces in front of me.
IMO if things are EXACTLY the same, it's not good.

So cut 30mm spacer to 24MM and then add a 6 mm to 14mm side?

i was thinking just adding 6mm to the 14mm side and leave the 30mm spacer alone. the wheels and different for the sbk also i think.

you basically need the same amount of distance between the axle spacers that is on the stock 696. so measure that distance and i think you'll see what i mean.

Then you run into the issue of the caliper not aligning with the rotor... Currently, the caliper and rotor on right side align and it works... On the left, the caliper is slightly offset and needs to come in slightly...

If you look at the 696 Rotor/wheel you will see on the right side that it's flat. On the right side the 14MM spacer sits flush up against the wheel/rotor.

However, on the left side it's indented. The 30 MM spacer sits into this indent. So, the spacers on each side do not need to be identical. The space on left and right need to be the same, but the spacers are different to allow for this indent on the left side rotor.

If the fork legs have settled properly:

If one caliper is aligning, and the other is not, that sounds like a rotor offset issue adding to the situation.

I'd suggest mocking up the wheel w/ rotors and axle (no calipers because they probably will not fit) .  Center the wheel and take axle & rotor measurements before modding/making/buying parts.

Looking at it this morning after a nights sleep and it not being 2am I think that I just need the spacer to push out the rotor and all should be ok....I am going to have all the parts machined and see which setup works when using the 1098 Axle...

well after discussions with the guy I'm working with, we have an issue he doesn't agree with. the 5mm spacers for the rotors. the stock rotors are hubcentric with 6 bolts. if you add the 5mm spacer you take the rotors halfway off the hub and basically are usingthe bolts take the force of the braking.

I've measure it and the hub is 7mm thick. the rotors 4mm thick and the spacer would be 5mm
so the rotors would only have 2mm left on the hub.

the only rotors i've even heard of that are 6 bolt, 15mm offset are 998R rotors, and good luck finding those.

anyway, anyone else thought about the hub issue?

IMO, and im no engineer: "I" Don't think it's really an issue.

What's "their" reasoning against it?

He is an engineer and I'm starting to understand. I had an old Fiat same issue. It's called hubcentric.
Basically a center hub or lip on the wheel is what holds the brake sheering force. the bolts keep it from rotating and slipping off that lip. if you pull it off that lip then the bolts have to compensate for the sheering force as well.

soooo, I'm researching what rotors are out there that have the 6 bolt with 15 mm offset in 320mm.
found 3 so far. Brembo, EBC and another brand.

You are comparing a rotor to a wheel.  Wheels have the load of the vehicle and torsional loads to deal with, and still yet, lugcentric wheels rarely fail...just more of a pain to install.

Don't get me wrong, if you can get hubcentric rotors on the easy, go for it...

The rotor bolts still have to deal with shear factor under braking regardless.  As long as the rotor is centered, I think the length of the bolt is more of concern in this scenario, and still yet...I wouldn't worry about it.

DoWorkSon

have you solved this math problem

this is what I was thinking about. you were measuring with stock 696 rotors which have the different offset. that's why the left side lined up without the additional 6mm on the 14mm side. if you added 6mm to the spacer and then used the 15mm offset rotors i bet it would all line up.

new rotors !

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=39318.msg715504#msg715504 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=39318.msg715504#msg715504)

Im still waiting on my parts from the machinist...

I am going to try using just the rotor spacer first and see how that pans out....

Second will be using a cut down axle spacer....

If none of the above work, going to use the 696 axle, make the shims and go with the method that pjfa used

I learned today that the 1098 axle will not work..... You must use the 696 axle with the 1098 fork.... The 1098 axle is too short and the tapered end is shorter than the 696's.... Because the axle is shorter, the upper/lower triple will not be aligned unless you want to make several spacers for each side of the fork and do all the measurements and whatnot...

However, if you have a 1098 axle, and do not want to have a shim for the 696 axle machined a simple alternative(if you have appropriate tools) is to cut off the tapered end of the 1098 axle that fits in the 1098 fork, cut a small line to allow flex, and then place that over the tapered end of the 696 axle.... Prety much like pfja did, but without machining a shim, just using what I already had.

can you put them side by side? also with the nuts. because teh 1098 nut has a short extension on it.

Everything is put together so I cannot get a pic now... But the 696 axle is about a 1/2" longer than the 1098's and the tapered end of the 696 axle is also about 1/2" longer than the 1098's....

It's this extra length that makes the 696 axle work with the 696 lower triple and upper....

If you wanted to use a 1098 triple setup, you might be able to with the 1098 axle... however, buying a whole new set of upper/lower 1098 triples was not even an option when i could use the 696 axle I already had

errrr. totally pissed now.

Yes... it has been a frustrating experience trying to use that 1098 axle... I thought it would save time using it but ended up taking more time....

So, you will need the axle shim, the two rotor spacers, and two thin metal shims for lower triple..... Pfja's measurements are perfect and everything lined up....

well i have the rotors fixed, i also have the triples fixed. now i need the axle.
I will probably get one CNC'd to solve the issue. just need to get the measurements, etc.

DoWorkSon, do you have the measurment for the rotor spacer thickness? I have yet to find any reliable information on this topic. If you do, much appreciated! [thumbsup] Otherwise, when i get my forks mounted up i'll post up my findings. I have a suspicion it's 5mm but i'm not 100%. Thanks!

The rotor spacers need to be 4.5 mm wide... just like on the first page where pfja posted his parts.... As far as the alignment and diameter of the spacer, I just gave my machinist the rotor and explained to him the location of the bolt holes and size of spacer.... but they must both be 4.5 mm thick and you need two, one on each side!

Bike is finally done with the new forks, wood craft clipons, and a rizoma belt cover....

A crappy pic but here they are installed

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/007-2.jpg)

(http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/bsurjan/008-3.jpg)

Looks good!! I am totally jealous of your forks.  [drool]

I'm thinking it will be easier to just buy an 848 to go along with my monster.

the 1098 axle fit perfectly. but i have the whole set: axle, spacers, and nut.

the nut is the difference i think. it has an extension on it compared to the stock monster nut.

so the only thing i had to do was change out the left side spacer for the monsters and everything lined up perfectly.

the brakes with the 15mm offset, the superbike forks, superbike axle, one superbike spacer (small one), one monster spacer, superbike nut.

This subject hasn't been started yet on this topic but i think it's directly applicable as a follow on to the fork installation. Ok, so I’ve got everything buttoned up on my bike, test rode it to make sure everything was in working order and so on. Now, about all the new adjustment options at our finger tips... I reset / verified everything was back to what the 1098 manual outlines as stock and went from there. So far all I’ve fiddled with is getting my baseline sag with all the suspension components set at their stock setting. I found that i was sitting at 29mm front and 19mm rear initially. From what i've read so far on this topic it appears that for most riders a similar figure is advised for both front/rear suspension. After getting my base line i reset the rear to 29mm for equality sake and then softened the compression in both forks 1/4 turn. So far the suspension feels great. While researching preload, sag, damping and compression i've also stumbled across generic sag settings that outline 25-30mm is ideal for racing applications and 30-35mm is advisable for road conditions which would mean that my settings are still so stiff. I’m no mathematician but I know I worked all the equations correctly. I will admit that i have pretty decent roads around where i live so until i do further evaluation i won’t know for sure how much of an impact the varying road surface will make. I know there are numerous other threads that discuss suspension tuning and setup but I think keeping this one in this thread will be to the benefit of all who read this topic. In an attempt to circumvent a few of the questions that may arise from this discussion, the following information is provided to set a baseline for what I’m working with. Weight with gear 180'ish lbs and stand about 5ft 9in, forks were just serviced with new oil and seals and the springs are the stockers with approximately 4000 miles on them, still on the dealership rubber and am running them at the spec outlined in the owner’s manual, I’m running clipons above the triple as well if someone it a rocket scientist and would account for varying riding positions.  I’d be interested to see what anyone else has found out or done so far that has either worked, failed or what your thoughts/impressions are so far….

Here are some pics of my bike after the  new front end install.
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz16/kennynwhiteII/IMG_0784.jpg)
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz16/kennynwhiteII/IMG_0785.jpg)

Did some more messing with the suspension sense yesterday. I found probably the best write up on tuning suspension to date and decided to go ahead with the advice given in it sense it directly pertains to Monsters and not generalized for sport bikes overall. It suggested 35mm sag for the front and 30mm out back (previous information found suggested 30/30), so I reset all my controls and rear spring and adjusted to 35/30. I also followed what it outlined for rebound and compression after which I went for a 50 mile ride to shake it out and see how it may have changed. First impressions so far is the ride has improved sense my previous 28/28 settings which I suspected were overly ambitious, even for tracking the bike. The route I took encountered varying types of road surface (not dirt, all paved) and I made it a point to hit a pothole or  two as long as they weren’t too bad to see what the bikes reaction would be. So far, I’m impressed and may not mess with it for the remaining ¾ of the tank just so I can get more of a feel for it. I also checked the free sag after I got done setting the suspension up just to see if the stock springs were too stiff. So far it appears they may be as the free sag figure was more than 30% of the static sag. I ended up with 22.37mm for the free sag and according to the article that recommends a 35mm sag figure for the forks I should be at approximately 10.5mm free sag. I haven’t done the free sag on the rear yet that’s not really applicable to this thread sense the focus is about the forks. Hope this helps someone else out with setting up their suspension. There is allot I left out about setting up the suspension that the article touches on (I tried to follow it as closely as possible), worth a read IMHO.
Link to write up below:
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=982.msg8140#msg8140 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=982.msg8140#msg8140)

What are the setting for the stock 1098 suspension?

I have yet to adjust mine for my weight(probably about 180ish lbs as well with gear).

This is the excerpt from the 1098 manual i downloaded off the ducati website. It's kind of hard to interpret at first but if you read it while looking at your forks or have a photographic memory everything makes sense. I ended up scrapping what the manual said and adjusted mine based off the link in my last post.

Front fork adjusters
The front fork can be adjusted for rebound, compression and
spring preload.
The settings are adjusted by way of external adjuster screws:
1) to adjust rebound damping (fig. 44.1 and fig. 44.2);
2) to adjust inner spring preload (fig. 44.1 and fig. 44.2);
3) to adjust compression damping (fig. 45.1 and fig. 45.2).
Park the motorcycle in a stable position on its sidestand.
To adjust the rebound damping setting, turn the adjuster (1)
on the top of each fork leg with a flat-blade screwdriver
(1098) or the special wrench (1098 - 1098S Tricolore).
As you turn the adjusting screws (1 and 3), you will hear
them click. Each click identifies a setting. The stiffest
damping setting is obtained with the adjuster turned fully
clockwise to the “0” position. Start with this position and
turn counterclockwise. Count the screw clicks, which
correspond to position “1”, “2” and so forth.

The STANDARD factory settings are as follows:
compression:
3/4 turns (1098),
8 clicks (1098S - 1098S Tricolore);
rebound:
12 clicks (1098),
10 clicks (1098S - 1098S Tricolore);
Spring preload (1098)(A, fig. 44.1): 18 mm;
corresponds to an actual preload of 9 mm.
Spring preload (1098S - 1098S Tricolore); starting with the
adjuster screwed FULLY OUT, screw it in clockwise 8 turns;
corresponds to an actual preload of 8 mm.To change the preload on the inner spring for each fork leg,
turn the adjuster with the hex end (2, fig. 44.1 and fig. 44.2)
with a 22 mm hex wrench.

Corresponding images
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz16/kennynwhiteII/compressionandpreload.jpg)
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz16/kennynwhiteII/rebound.png)

So far i'm happy but i do have suspicions that the spring rate is to stiff for 180 lbs. After doing some more reading, i think i'm going to do a little further riding and then do another round of calculations on my static sag and free sag based off an article i read that indicates that freshly serviced forks tend to have more stiction in the seals. I'm going to allow for a break in period and then go from there. Stock spring rate for the 1098 forks is 10.0 N/mm from what i've read, anyone know what it is for a 1100S? I know there is a slight difference because of the difference in fork lengths but i'm curious if the numbers are close enough that i could re-spring my forks for the same rate as the M1100S and that would be enough to get the 30% free sag per my static sag figure of 35mm. Just thinking out loud.

1100S has 9 or 9.5kg springs in it.  Depends on the actual forks you have. They are constantly updating them over at Ohlins

The 1198 forks i have came with 9.5 ohlins springs. the stock 10 were in the box. so at least I'm set on that. the valve was already changed to racetech gold valves with new oil.

I think right now I just have some minor tweaking to get where it needs to be as compared to your situation with the heavier springs.

Thanks Raux, Please update us on what your impressions are when your bike gets back together. I'm gonna slug it out with mine for a bit more, however i've already began looking at the re-springing process. Anyone have thoughts on if a revalve with new springs would be better than just the springs. Raux, how are the those racetech gold valves going to act differently than the stock one's? Different size? I'd be really interested to see what your static sag / free sag numbers turn out to be, especially if you weigh anywhere in the ball park of 170-180 lbs like myself and DoWorkSon.  [thumbsup]

Raux, forgot to ask. Any chance you have documentation of a part number for those Öhlins springs. I trust my searching abilities but a second reliable source would be great. Thanks!

mattc7, thanks for the info. Secondary question, have you heard or even better know what other 1100S riders are reporting as the better spring rate, specifically 108ish sorts? I know my questions is borderline insane because i'm asking for a ballpark figure for a very critical / unique to each rider component.....

i don't have the part number right now. but i can get it. i bought them that way, so I will ask the seller.
plus the shop i work with has access to Ohlins parts but they're closed for 2 weeks.

i HOPE to be riding before the end of august to give riding impressions. by that time it will be one year so it may be hard to compare. last thing i remember about riding my bike. is OH SHIT RAIL

lolz

Thanks Raux, I'm really interested to hear those sag figures. End of august ehh, not to far off. I've been following the evolution of your bike sense it's inception after the crash. It nice to see it coming together and your approach with new and different parts. Seeing it all together will be a big payoff for not only you but all of us that have been drooling over every detail you've told so far [thumbsup].

Not sure if anyone else has looked at this angle which is kind of what my questions have been pointing towards with the spring rates. The '09 M1100 has a 24deg Rake and a travel of 130mm, the 1*98 forks for '08 have a rake of 24.5deg and a travel of 127mm. Half a deg difference in rake and 3 mm in travel is pretty close, not perfect or identical but close. I'm thinking that what is working for 1100S riders, spring rate wise, will probably work for us 1*98 fork converts. This entire theory is based off the often echoed (other fork conversion threads) observation that the monsters weight is carried differently by its suspension components than those on a superbike. Someone check me if i'm off, i'm still pretty novice with suspension.

the 1198 forks and 1100 forks comparison should be close since the travel is similar. the rake is unimportant because that's set by the steering head if not mistaken. so we should be running the stock 24.5 of the 1100 if we raise the rear with the new suspension mount (and of course get the forks to the right height on the front triples)

IMO you have to look at weight distribution.
take two scales and measure the weights at both wheels. do that for the 1100, 696 and 1198.

then you can start to figure rate comparisons. also, i now have single rate springs, not sure if the stock 1100 has progressive, but i know the 696 does have progressive. the 1100s ohlins should be single rate as well.

my bike with rider, will definitely be more front biased. I have zero rise clipons, lighter exhausts, lighter rearsets with a more raised and rearward peg location. take into account I have dropped some pounds at least until i add the superbike front lights (freaking heavy things) and i should be fine for the new springs ( i weight 1 hundred sixty-mmmphh plus gear)

Thanks Raux, I figured that the rake wasn't very important but thought it best to mention because of the slight difference in angle. Not sure how much of a factor it is as it pertaints to force directed towards the ground but since we are dealing with a relatively short distance, there wouldn't be much of a variance. I'd be interested to see what it is though however i don't have a 1098 laying around to get the measurements i need to run the pythagorean theorem off of. Enough said on that.

I visited the Racetech website to see what they had to offer in the way of suspension components for my forks. Using their suspension calculator and a base weight for the bike i came up with a recommended spring weight of .90 kg/mm (my actual figure was .897 kg/mm IIRC so i rounded to the nearest spring rate). Looks like I  need to drop .1 kg/mm up front. I'm thinking that one of the next things I'm going to have to tackle is pulling the springs and replacing them, anyone have thoughts on replacing valves and if changing them as well would be of significant benefit?

ok going back over this and reading more.

rake/trail

the stock 696 is 24deg/96mm

the stock 1100 is 24/87mm

the 848 however has a slower set up

24.5/97mm which is more like the 696. i think it's because of the offset is less. BUT i read if you go with the 30mm offset on the 848 you get a trail of 91mm.

which also makes sense since i also read changing the rake of the 848 to 24 gives you the @88 mm trail.

sooooo

if you set up your forks at the same mounting height as an 848 you'll get the correct rake/trail or at least close to it for a good starting point.

That's interesting and pretty technical :o. I did a little bit of research on your findings, and i thought that calculating free/static sag and looking at springrates was "in the weeds". I might have to get a few beers in me before i tackle this one  [drink]. When i put my forks on i did so one at a time and checked axle fit with the first 1098 for before taking the second 696 stocker off so that my fork length didn't change from the factory set length. This is still kind of over my head in some regards soooo, what would be the advantage to changing the trail on my bike if it's only 1 mm off? I recognize that your in somewhat of a different situation sense you're sporting the 1100 shock mount. By the way, what spring did you go with or did you just get it refinished in black? The 30mm offset you spoke to, are you referring to the distance from center of top of steering neck to centerline of top of fork tubes? Eyeballing the stock triple i still have laying around i get a 40mm measurement for the 696.  Hmmm interesting. What is the stock mounting height for the 848?

ok hang on

you need to work off the stock

24/96mm of the 696 since you aren't changing your ride height. and your triples should be 30mm offset
centerline steering stem to centerline forks.

if you kept your stock fork on then lined up the new fork to that you should be good as everything SHOULD be the same, if your triples are correct.

yeah i will be shooting for the 1100 rake/trail settings

the rear spring is stock, powdercoated black. eventually i'll be putting something better on. i have an 848 rear shock but it doesn't fit right now, wondering how to make it work, maybe mount it upside down if that's possible. i'll use my stock spring with the 848 shock if that works with a bit more preload to reduce the early soft part of the spring.

Rechecked on my end, looks like i need to recalibrate my eyeballing, i was 10mm off! Good catch, i guess this is a prime example of a second opinion being a good thing  [thumbsup]. Thanks.

I made doubly sure that i got one of the transplant forks lined up in the triple before i pulled the other fork so i didn't alter the ride height.

I hope your idea with the 848 spring works out, it would be another good option for those looking to upgrade their suspension without going to a whole new setup and undoubtedly more $$$. Aside from the Ohlins route the only other option I've seen done was an 1100 going to a Penske with Eibach spring but i think you already know about that one, i remember seeing at least one comment from you in that board.

yeah changing out for a single rate spring is a quick fix for the soft variable rate spring.

If you have a M796....

You can mount a set of the Showa SBK forks for an 848/1098/1198,
or you can use the Ohlins FGRT803 front forks.

The M796 has a 15mm offset rotor, so no spacers are needed.

All you need is:
1pr Ohlins FGRT803's -or- 1pr Showa forks from an 848/1098/1198
1 - Front axle & nut from an 848/1098/1198
Mill your stock TOP clamp from 50mm to 53mm -or- buy a 53mm top clamp that
is appropriate for the M796.

Everything else....should just bolt up & go !

woah/// 15mm offset rotors? 5 bolt or 6 bolt?
the lower triple is 54 on monster so that will have to be shimmed. or is that 53 now?
and the spacers on the axle are the same as the sbk?

have you done this?

edit: 5 bolt rotors... shit

5 bolt

Lower clamp on the M796 is 53mm already,
and the bike is using a 5 bolt 15mm offset rotor
atop the 10 spoke wheels.

You can always fit an 848/1098/1198 front wheel
and rotors as well.

Keep in mind the 1098/1198 rotors are 330mm
the 848 rotors are identical but 320mm

is this across the board on the new monsters or just the 796
5 bolt 15mm rotors
50/53 triples

Not sure about...across the board, but its been the
case on most all of the M796's we've encountered.

well when i get back to germany i'll take a trip to the dealer and do some research to ensure i don't give out bad info again

I don't think you gave out bad info...

I just think that Ducati has several different variable parts
that they use from model to model and year to year.

Just an Example:
Most ALL of the parts between an 848 and 1098/1198
are interchangable. However, you would think that the
handlebars are all identical...and they are in length and
diameter, but the 848 has the mounting holes for the
left hand control drilled in slightly different places than
the 1098/1198

Just wanted to pass along the info on the M796 for fitment
of the SBK front end that it is slightly different than the M696
as most people think they are identical and they aren't.

maybe it's the new forks. aren't they marzocchi now?

any confirmation on whether or not it's only the marzocchi forks that have the correct offset for the sbk fork upgrade for the 796?

asking because i'm tempted to do the mod, but i have a showa front fork...

just a fyi, the 796 brake rotors are a 5 hole 10mm offset.  you'll still need to shim it, i'm not sure what motion did to have it fit in perfectly.

I just snagged a set of the Showa's for my 796, Can anyone point me to the measurements on the dimensions for the Brake rotor shims(I.e. Bolt pattern dimensions, outside Diameter as well as Inside Diameter)? Hopefully while I'm assigned to our CNC shop I can find a used OEM Upper Triple clamp to bore out to 53MM otherwise it looks like I'll be spending the 285 for the conversion triple with link below.
http://www.houstonsuperbikes.com/product_info.php?products_id=607 (http://www.houstonsuperbikes.com/product_info.php?products_id=607)

Showas off a what? that makes a difference.

 2011 848 evo showa's, disregard my question as I found my solution.

Been lurking on the forum for a while, I just finished up the mod myself so I'll lend a few bits of info that I found on the 796 using 2009 848 evo showa units.

 1- Rotors- a good set of used 848 evo Rotors off of Ebay will work, they are 5 bolt and 15mm offset. The dual 5mm shim idea doesn't sit very well with me as it looks like the rotors are centered by the lip on the wheel
 2- lower triple clamp- you need shims for these, .5 mm thickness. the lowers are 54mm, the 848 Evo SBK forks are 53. the other route is Speedy moto's complete upper and lower unit.
 3- Axle- an 848 axle and nut will work, reuse the original 796 spacers.
 4- Upper triple clamp- give a call to Speedy moto and get their conversion unit or mill out your original .I went with speedy moto, My own personal fear was that the original would crack after being milled. Speedymoto has 2 types, one to retain the original handlebars and one for clip on's. I went with the one to retain the original handlebars but after seeing the finished work I'm installing a set of 848 Evo clip on's I got for cheap until I can get better pieces. the original handlebars get in the way of the adjusters and clip ons just look better.