Ducati Monster Forum

Own a diesel small truck in the USA

http://www.holden.com.au/latestoffers/colorado-offers/colorado-lxr-4x4-crew-cab-turbo-diesel?region=National (http://www.holden.com.au/latestoffers/colorado-offers/colorado-lxr-4x4-crew-cab-turbo-diesel?region=National)
(3.0L I4 turbodiesel)

http://www.toyota.com.au/hilux/specifications/sr-4x4-double-cab-chassis (http://www.toyota.com.au/hilux/specifications/sr-4x4-double-cab-chassis)
(3.0L I4 turbodiesel)

Oh look a 2.5L I4 turbodiesel:
http://www.nissan.com.au/webpages/models/Navara_D22_model.html (http://www.nissan.com.au/webpages/models/Navara_D22_model.html)

Another 2.5L I5 TD
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/vehicles/4wd/triton/specs-and-features/specifications/4x4-double-cab-diesel/specifications/ (http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/vehicles/4wd/triton/specs-and-features/specifications/4x4-double-cab-diesel/specifications/)

I want a diesel small truck

There is no good reason not to have them here other than the fact that companies think they won't sell.

I don't know if I'd go stupid but I don't get why they don't sell them.

I did look at a diesel BMW x5. as soon as i saw the price I moved on. same with the diesel VW Tuareg II. It is just sick the mark up on them. Looking at new cars blows.

If Chevrolet made a Diesel Suburban or Avalanche, put me down for one!  Hell Id even go the Mitsubishi route if they made a 7 passenger with a diesel.

Maybe diesels are just too reliable/bullet proof. Manufacturers don't want all that planned obsolescence to go to waste.....

 [bang]

I can't explain why they won't sell these vehicles here.

Australian diesel has a lower amount of sulfur -- 10ppm vs 15ppm in the US

That's a negligible difference.  Cetane minimum in Australia is 46, which is essentially premium diesel in the US.

Just prior to buying my Tiguan, I had high hopes that I could get one with the TDI engine.

Dealer told me that the demand for the engine is too high in Europe, so they don't offer them here in that model. What a crock.

You want a truck, but I want a car.

I refuse to buy a VW/Audi and the Mercedes is more than I want to spend on a car.

Why can't I get a Camry/Accord/Civic in a turbo diesel?

I'd kill for a BMW 335d, but $45k for small sedan is ridiculous (maybe I'll pick one up CPO in a few years).

to my knowledge, neither toyota nor honda has sold cars in diesel in the US ever.

they offer them in europe and oz

I'll throw one other Diesel P/U into the mix that I think should be here that I want

http://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/amarok-range/amarok/overview/ (http://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/amarok-range/amarok/overview/)

(http://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/images/product-pages/amarok/gallery/03-lrg.jpg)

I too would like a mid-size diesel 4x4 pick-up.

That VW one above, and the Hilux look very cool.  :'(

I'd rather have this.

(http://www.carplanet.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Holden_ute_SS-V_m_m.jpg)

Toyota sold a diesel Camry back in the 80s.

I don't even need a mid-sized diesel pickup... I want a 1/2ton 6cyl diesel.

If I remember right, the chevy LUV was available as diesel for a while.


This begs the question though... how hard would it be to obtain one of the diesel powerplants from the holden and retrofit it into a US built GM/Chevy?  I know importing the whole truck wouldn't work, bu the engine should be fine.

Screw the trucks, I just want the Holden Commodore here in the States  :-[

And while we're at it, how about the VW Scirocco (in both R and TDI trims)  [drool]

Exactly.  I wish they offered them in the USA.

Importing an engine is the same as importing a car if you are putting it into a road car.

I've got a Diesel Jeep Liberty - they made 10K of them in '05 and '06.  Great engine but less great transmission.  Have had ongoing issues with the tranny including a complete replacement.  On our way back from Wyoming last week, we blew a turbo hose, which led me to a great website that has a number of fixes for the power, transmission, reliability and mileage issues.  Applied the basic four fixes described and have more power and a measured 10% increase in mileage.  Wish I'd have known this stuff 80K miles ago!

One nice thing - this was the first time driving in the mountains in Wyoming on 8 to 10+% grades where I never ran out of power. 

I have no idea why they dont stuff these engines in lots of vehicles.  I'd love to have a Dodge Dakota with this little turbo diesel in it. 

Cruised at 105 with it for a few miles in Middle of Nowhere, Wyoming.   ;D

If I could get one of those with AWD and a diesel I would dump my beloved F150 in a heartbeat.

(http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2008/02/2008-Pontiac-G8-GT_01.jpg)
(http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/pontiac-g8-gxp-430-1108.jpg)
(http://www.southsearepublic.org/images/external/pontiacg8003.jpg)

(http://www.westcityholden.co.nz/images/site/sections/73_main.jpg)

Guess I'd have to import the bodywork  ;D

It's honestly the shape of the front end that bugs me on the Pontiac. The split grille, plus the hood scoops, just turn me off.

Working for one of the manufacturers that has diesels elsewhere but not the states, I can tell you that there is a number of reasons why you can't get them here.

It's quite complicated.

Economies of scale (not practical to only build 10k diesel Tacomas out of 120k total - particularly since that segment continues to shrink), the ongoing (false) negative perception of diesels, diesel prices and limited diesel fuel refining capacity issues, emission requirements, cost to dealers for technician and sales consultant training, and primarily polytix, which are verboten here.

Honda was planning to bring a diesel car (Accord, I believe) here by now, but scrapped those plans when the economy tanked.

Personally, I'd love to see them here, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

After spending a month in Australia, I REALLY wonder what automakers in the US are thinking.  There are some AWESOME diesels available over there.

JM

Yup-I want a small diesel pickup. I have no need for a giant one, and the current small gas ones ain't gonna cut it.

Lameness.

Who says I'm putting it in car? Perhaps I'm looking to see how the I4 turbo diesel will work driving an irrigation pump.   [thumbsup]

Whatever the trend is

It is affecting business

We're changing our entire fleet over to gas motors

It's madness

My business got away from diesels about 10 years ago for several reasons.  We run 3/4 ton utility body pick-ups and 3/4 ton vans.
1) Diesel started costing as much or more then unleaded gas.
2) Mileage isn't that much better then gas engines.
3) Nearly impossible to find a good diesel mechanic. We were constantly changing shops to try to find a good mechanic.
4) We keep trucks a long time and we can replace 2 gas motors for the cost of 1 diesel.

Was a pretty easy decision for us.

Competent mechanics is a big issue with the Jeep Diesels.  Most dealerships are clueless on how to work on them.  I've taken mine in for an oilchange and they had to go to the store across the highway to get the oil.  (Mobil 1)

There really is no support for the jeep diesel engines.

Doesn't matter.  It's an engine designed for use in a car. 

Then again, if you ship it marked as a lawnmower engine, who knows?

Local FD has both gas and diesel ambulances.

They report a 40% difference in diesel vs gas mileage in their fleet.  The speculation is that diesel uses a lot less fuel when they idle, which ambulances do a lot of when in use.

That really speaks to the lack of skill by the mechanics (or unwillingness by the dealers to allow them to learn.)

Diesels aren't any more complicated than a modern gasoline engine.  The direct injection (gas) on our car looks pretty much the same as a diesel except the spark plugs.

http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Satellite?c=DFYPage&cid=1248884767068&pagename=FOA%2Fcontroller&site=FOA (http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Satellite?c=DFYPage&cid=1248884767068&pagename=FOA%2Fcontroller&site=FOA)

I don't know that it's limited to just diesel technicians. 

Good automotive technicians are hard to find.

corrected....see above


once again....see above...especially due to the technology entagled with the mechanics of the machinery nowadays....thankfully, our dealership looks at the value of knowledge in terms of fixing a car right the first time for to keep a customer happy....but we aren't a big box kind of dealership.

A couple of Australian built/available diesels from US parent companies:
http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/news-and-reviews/car-reviews-road-tests/ford_territory_diesel_first_drive
 (http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/news-and-reviews/car-reviews-road-tests/ford_territory_diesel_first_drive)
http://www.carshowroom.com.au/newcars/reviews/900/Chrysler_300C___Car_Review (http://www.carshowroom.com.au/newcars/reviews/900/Chrysler_300C___Car_Review)

I'm driving a Ford Mondeo turbo diesel >> http://theage.drive.com.au/new-car-reviews/ford-mondeo-zetec-tdci-wagon-20101216-18zdw.html (http://theage.drive.com.au/new-car-reviews/ford-mondeo-zetec-tdci-wagon-20101216-18zdw.html)

Goes very well (for a diesel) and is pretty frugal even when flogged hard - mine averages 6.8 litres/100km (you own a calculator). 

But I dont pay for fuel, so gimme back my gas powered 4.0 litre Ford Falcon!  [laugh].

Always seems desirable when you cant have it, dont it?   ;D

Most people quote as km/l not L per 100km. 

That works out to about 34.5 mpg in real numbers.

I get about that in my VW Golf in aggressive city driving.  About 50mpg on the highway, which is about 4.7 L per 100km

 [roll]  Self improvement is not the responsibility of others.

nor is it the topic of this thread...

Good on you for landing at a store that cares.  Unfortunately, not all are that way.

However, I'll ask you the following:

How many guidance counselors are directing youngsters towards the field?

How many technicians actively seek to continue to improve their skillsets?

How many technicians jump ship to another field?  I know dealers that have lost well-paid master level diesel techs to the oil fields of Wyoming or the copper mines in AZ/NM.

When I was working on my A.A.S. in Automotive Service some 15+ years ago, there was a nationwide shortage of technicians.  That problem still exists today, and will only get worse.

It's getting worse all the time for all mechanical fields.
Kids want to go to college and make $90k when they get out and just sit behind a desk and do nothing all day.
No one wants to work with their hands and get dirty any more.

no...it isn't...but when you are paid flat rate based on the hours you turn solely, you need to make sure your bread is buttered and you can put a roof over your head...here at our dealership, they get an averaged 8 hour day of pay as "training wage" for compensation for when a technician goes to school in addition to the dealership paying for the training with the manufacturer itself...make no mistake...none of this is cheap....and this is all manufacturer certification training, not ASE...they have to sign up and coordinate with the service director, which they all do...


guidance counselors are a joke IMHO....but that is another story entirely...

how many techs seek further education depends on their circumstances...for example...

you work at a multiline dealer or even a single line dealer under a team system....some people naturally will just fall into their specialties...especially given the diagnostic ability of your A versus B versus C techs in how the jobs are dispatched and the hours earned ( we aren't including your D techs which do LOF's and tire jobs, because usually they are considered apprentices)...can the team afford 8 hours of said tech to be out for training, sure....and they ( the team leader and service manager) schedule and coordinate to accomodate that...

a tech that is not under the team system and is in a shop full of hungry techs and is dependant on a shop foreman to feed them the jobs to get the hours...if they don't have a good relationship with the shop foreman, they starve....and can't afford the time to go train as they are scraping by...

sure, these are diametric opposites in situation, but these are very real circumstances...and it isn't always as black and white as we generalize in conversating about this....techs live and starve based on hours turned....techs that are starving, aren't training and are looking to make their rent elsewhere if they have to....it is the nature of the beast unfortunatly....they have to take care of #1....

I could give a shit about guidance counselors.

If the car companies would sell those cars here, they would have trained techs to work on them.  and then the aftermarket would follow.

The tech at the VW place near me sucks, but the other dealer has a great diesel wrench.

They aren't withholding the cars/trucks that are diesel because there aren't diesel mechanics here.

no they aren't...they are withholding them because the other markets aren't EPA regulated with various levels depending on state and have stardards that make sense and that are are universally compliant and accepted across different world market zones....that and the foriegn markets have a much higher demand for those vehicles and they do not have to go through importation tariffs and so forth because the gas companies have the US politicians by the balls in reelection finance and other stated and unstated red tape to bring them here

In the US, there is only EPA and CARB.  If they import by EPA, they are 43 state legal and if they import by CARB, it's 50 state legal.  There is no state-by-state issue.  VW, Mercedes, and BMW don't have any problem doing it.

Chevy, which make the Colorado, could easily put the 3.0 I4 engine in their trucks which they assemble here in the USA.  There is no importation tariff issue.

Ford and Chevy both have small trucks with diesels and both could be made here at home with little changes.  The Chevy Colorado is practically a rebadged Mitsubishi truck, and both could be certified for sale in the US with little issues, they just have to certify the engine.

They aren't bringing those products here because Americans, as a society, expect their diesels to be big, obnoxious black smoke bellowing behemoths.
They want trucks that are too big for any job they will ever use it for.
They want cars that offer performance. Mileage is still a tertiary thought in the buying process.

Sadly, but true, Americans are mostly content with the current offerings. Until more people go into dealers and say, "You know, I like that model but I would only buy it if it was offered as a diesel.", there won't be enough demand for manufacturers to bring those products here.

Mahindra will eventually be selling their small diesel pickups here.  I guess it remains to be seen how well they'll do..

or maybe not.. i just read that Mahindra pulled out of the deal....

I certainly understand why most Jeep dealerships are not sharp on the diesels.  They never intended to sell a ton of them, then Mercedes pulled out - no one in their right mind would spend the time and money making someone a guru on these engines.  

That being said, I surely don't appreciate purchasing a new vehicle only to find that my dealership is clueless on how to service it.  Honestly, unless its a warranty issue, I wouldn't let them change the washer fluid.  (and I don't have any confidence in the warranty work either)  I'm sure the service quality changes from dealership to dealership but this one is pretty poor.

I like this one:

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/chevrolet/2012-chevrolet-colorado-ar106805.html (http://www.topspeed.com/cars/chevrolet/2012-chevrolet-colorado-ar106805.html)

2.8L diesel option


mitt

I am always amazed at the idiocy of the masses. Not just here in the US, but everywhere in general. However I have a beef with how hard it is to get a diesel car (or SUV) here. Back in Europe cars with turbo diesel engines now count for about 50% of sales and are far more efficient (use less petrol and last longer) than the gas counter parts.

The technology is tried and true: the diesel common rail injection has been used in tractors for over 30 years and with anti-particulate filters the don't smoke as they used to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_rail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_rail)

Hybrids are even worse: they cost more (in money and energy) to make and maintain and the batteries are made of toxic materials... people only look at MPG and don't realize all the cost behind building the vehicle. The fact is that the most environmentally firendly car you can buy is a USED one.


Enough getting pissed now, time for some laughs. ;)
Meet the Volkswagens - Jetta TDI Meets Prius (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXK63kvUi6U#)

The Toyota Prius is Useless (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JdOH7GrE6Q#)

I had a 1977 MB 300 SD for a while.  It had a zillion miles on it and a lot of the luxury bells and whistles no longer worked but it got down the road in a hurry and got great mileage for a large car.  That was '70's technology diesel and it was wonderful.  Fortunately a friend of mine was a diesel mechanic which helped - (he's now working as a mechanic for a large coal mile in Alaska as referred to in another post.)

I don't understand why they are not more popular but I guess I don't care what anyone else thinks anyway.  I've had great personal experiences with diesel vehicles and I'll continue to run them. 

Which most people?  Not the most people I know. Litres/100km is the standard metric format.

Until they allow techs to make the kind of money people can earn in other fields that will continue to be a problem.

I'll just leave this here  ;D

http://www.hpamotorsport.com/tdiconversions.htm (http://www.hpamotorsport.com/tdiconversions.htm)

and until then I do my own stuff as finding that I know more than the techs at a dealership scares me
Saying that, if anyone within 2 hours of me ever needs it, I do have the Rosstech cable and I'm not afraid to cripple your car.  [evil]

http://dieseldig.com/2010/03/17/not-for-us-2010-jeep-wrangler-diesel/ (http://dieseldig.com/2010/03/17/not-for-us-2010-jeep-wrangler-diesel/)

30 mpg Jeep!

Sorry, can't have one..... [bang]

yes you can, click my link  ;)

I understand the economics of it and what not...but still...VW is killing it with their TDI jettas. We just test drove the new TDI passat. I think we'll be buying one this winter (if we can find one) for my wife's daily driver. The car is great, even if it only has 140 hp  [laugh]

it would squeal the tires from a dead stop, even with traction control on (salesman made me do it  [evil])

Six figures is very attainable as an automotive technician.

So you're rich? Can I have a Tundra?

No shit!  I'd jump all over one of those if I could.

There's a bit more hope now though, since Fiat is a majority holder in Chrysler.

30mpg?  I wonder if that kinda milage is attainable in real world usage.

A less than frugal 18mpg according to  to this review  >>  http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=62009&pg=2 (http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=62009&pg=2)  <<  and with a $4000 premium for the diesel variant would you still be interested?? 

Yep.  Where else are you going to find a 4x4 convertible that has (some) storage space and the capability to tow?

When this changes, let me know when I can get an Amarok. 40 mpg in an all wheel drive truck is incredible.

I bet VW cant keep TDI's Jetta on the lot, (well maybe they can since the MK6 has been beat with the ugly stick) regardless of the cost difference between diesel and gasoline. 

Mine was so fresh off the truck, the dealer was still hadn't finished removing the protective shrink wrap from the car.

VW imports so few TDIs (Jetta & Golf/Rabbit) that there's a waiting list! Starting price is about $5k over the gas models and they don't even offer special rates or discounts on them. I really wanted to get one but ended up getting a used Civic (for half the price) instead.

5k over gas is about right. I paid 25500 for my 2006 TDI way back in Aug 2005. Then they stopped selling TDI's for 3 years. Dealer did not discount, but to be fair he didnt mark up either. I checked my sticker against the VW website.
 

I'd wager there are very few making that kind of money, and only in select markets.

Go ahead...prove me wrong. ;D

I said it was attainable.  Not guaranteed.

 ;D

I knew a Master level technician here in Denver pulling down $200K+/yr.  And that was a few years ago.

It's a shame a good diesel mechanic is hard to find.  Locally, I saw a great buy at a used car lot on a diesel Liberty.

JM

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54207 (http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54207)

This is an excellent source of info on the diesel Liberties. 

In the metro areas where the cost of living is high top earning techs can earn 100K.  That said, in the dealers I worked in the top earning techs were either cheating or being fed the most profitable jobs or both.  Often the problem car doesn't get fixed because it goes to the kid who just got out of school, not the A tech.  Going for new product training was also difficult.  The boss wanted you in the shop making money, not at school costing him money.  Yeah, I stopped working in dealers in 1976, but things haven't changed much since.  

...and it never will change howie.

I have been looking to buy a pick up truck but can't convince myself to purchase a vehicle getting 20 mpg or less.
Germans have done a great job in making very fuel efficient diesel engines which haven't made it across the pond
due to politics and for the fact that diesel is more expensive than gasoline in the US...not so in Germany.
While gasoline sells for $8+ per gallon in Germany, you can get diesel for up to a buck cheaper.
The first manufacturer that offers a quality 30+ mpg mid size truck in the US has my money.

Incredible is exactly what it is.  

7.8lt/100km (around 30mpg) according to this review  >>  http://www.caradvice.com.au/105919/volkswagen-amarok-review/ (http://www.caradvice.com.au/105919/volkswagen-amarok-review/)  <<  Nice ute though, made in America too  ;)

Did you see his W-2?

mitt

One thing to note is the tested mileage on the TDIs never shows actual mileage when broken in.  The current US Jetta TDI is rated at 42 mpg highway, but owners (and third party testing) has proven the TDI gets around 48mpg hwy after break-in.

My '05 Golf TDI easily gets 50 mpg on the highway.

Add around 20% to the posted figures for highway, the city mileage runs between 5-10% above the posted amounts.

I get around 50 on my Golf, 40 would be if I'm whipping it a bit.

I think the manual trans makes a difference too. My 2006 has the 5 speed manual and my fathers 2009 has the manumatic auto trans and he gets about 3-4 mpg less than i do for the same type of driving. On a perfect day its not unusual to get 50+ mpg from the Jetta.

Even if that Amorak gets only 30+ mpg i would still want one.

+1

depends on the carline you work on and the market....VERY much depends....but they are by far the exceptions to the rule...most automotive technicians by enlarged across the nation are much more in the same pay rate of the rest of the middle class....somewhere between $35-65K a year range ( considering smaller and depressed markets for bringing down that average.

Here is the reply I got from VW when I asked about availability in the US:

Thank you for contacting the Volkswagen Information Center. We are pleased to see your interest in the Amarok pickup truck currently available in select European and South American markets! Currently, there are no plans to produce the Amarok for the US market. Please be assured your comments have been documented and made available to the proper parties at Volkswagen of America. Feedback from our customers is a driving force in the design and production of future Volkswagen vehicles. We encourage you to keep checking back with the website, especially the Upcoming and Concept Cars Blog at http://blogs.vw.com/conceptcars/, (http://blogs.vw.com/conceptcars/,) as information on vehicle availability is subject to change without notice.  Feel free to phone us at 1-800-DRIVE-VW (1-800-374-8389) if you have any additional questions or concerns. Thank you again for visiting vw.com. We truly value your appreciation for the Volkswagen Brand! Matt

The trouble is that the price would be high enough that people would be cross shopping full sized 4x4s at that price and it unfortunately wouldn't sell well. Same reason we don't get the real VW minivan and instead get that rebadged Chrysler POS Routan. The VW minivan would cost too much compared to similarly equipped other brands.

I was hoping that since it is manufactured south of us and they can actually market it there, we might see it at a reasonable cost.
I found out that the same German car costs an average of 25%+ less in the US than it does in Germany at current exchange rates which leads me
to believe that there is such a thing as market pricing.
The minivan prices in Germany are unreal...50k to 60K in Euros that is.

I bet it's the Chicken Tax

There sure is. Why else does my Ducati cost +/- twice as much as the same thing you can buy? 

The Amarok sells in Australia @ a premium compared to its Japanese (owned if not manufactured) competition.  Yet you'd think an Argentine ute could compete directly on price with a Thai build vehicle. 

But VW are pitching it "up market". 

Coz they can. 

Makes sense, 25% on top of the already high cost would make it uncompetitive.

the "Crouton" ( as I and my GF call it) is only here for 2 more years under contract and we will be getting an actual VW minivan....I do believe we are getting the Touran, but they are not saying anything specifically...only alluding to it by saying " we are getting a european model..."...

More hilarious, the VW camper model is called the "California." 

But it ain't even sold in california!!

http://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/california-range/california-berghaus/overview/ (http://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/california-range/california-berghaus/overview/)

and to add insult, it only comes in 2.0 TDI models.. one is standard induction and one is bi-turbo.. 140hp and 180hp.  I can't even imagine, the '71 VW Campmobile I had in college had a 50hp bug engine. 

Here is the reply when I asked for the reasons:

Dear Karl,

Thank you for your follow-up email regarding the Amarok pickup truck.
 
There are a number of factors that go into the decision of releasing a Volkswagen vehicle in a particular market.  These include but are not limited to previous model-year sales/service data, current marketing objectives, customer feedback, and government regulations.  Volkswagen continues to research the possibility of producing additional vehicles to the US lineup, including importing as well as manufacturing at the Chattanooga, Tennessee facility.
We encourage you to keep checking the Upcoming and Concept Cars Blog (http://blogs.vw.com/conceptcars/ (http://blogs.vw.com/conceptcars/)) as well as the VW Online Newsroom Website (http://media.vw.com/ (http://media.vw.com/)) for updates on the future of Volkswagen of America vehicles and manufacturing.


Thank you again for visiting vw.com!

 

Matt

Volktalk

My wife and I were talking about this today. She said write to VW. Now that I see they read the letters I will.

Found an interesting website with some ECU, Transmission and Turbo products for the Diesel Jeeps.  Might be spending some money with these guys.
http://www.greendieselengineering.com/goPage.do?method=home (http://www.greendieselengineering.com/goPage.do?method=home)

THat's very cool stuff.  I have heard the transmissions for those jeeps are iffy, but if you can get past that -- and the fact that the old liberty body is very feminine (lol) then you're golden.

I didn't see anything for the Cherokee models.  Those had a 3.0V6 CRD. 

Another source.....Why don't we get the VW Amarok in the US? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9BNq-aESlU#)

I saw one in Mexico two weeks ago and was impressed.  I liked the design very much.  But alas, I just bought a full size truck so it's purely window shopping for me.

Damn chicken tax...

goddamn chicken tax

(http://www.fun-with-pictures.com/image-files/eat-more-chikin.jpg)

This may have been asked before,

and I might presently be all whiskey-ed up.

But...

What about gray market?

no such thing for cars and trucks.

buy it right or risk prison and huge fines

Interesting and about frickin time: http://www.truckblog.com/6887-cummins-developing-4-cyl-diesel-for-light-trucks (http://www.truckblog.com/6887-cummins-developing-4-cyl-diesel-for-light-trucks)
Does anyone have additional info?

First I've heard.  It would be wonderful -- a 4 cyl 2.5 L class engine would be perfect for most light truck use.  Mitsubishi's 4d56t (astron) engine pumps out close to 200 hp and 260ft/lbs with the turbo model using 2nd generation CRD.  If they have something that can produce 350 ft/lbs then it is definitely competitive. 

Sweet baby jesus, please let this be true.  And please let this motor find its way into a Jeep Wranger for the states!!

Guess we got some lobbying to do :D

Found this: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/05/cummins-feds-developing-four-cylinder-diesel-for-nissan-titan.html (http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/05/cummins-feds-developing-four-cylinder-diesel-for-nissan-titan.html)

I want the 3.8 they briefly mention, 443 lb-ft  of torque [evil]
I'm sure that relatively low hp number can be easily remedied

I'd take it with the 4 banger.  For a work truck, a turbo diesel four banger will approach the stock performance of the V8

those photos are dated 1/26/2011.. i wonder how that project is coming along?

Fired off an email to Nissan already...hope we get good news

tell them to put the 4-banger in the Frontier and the 3.8 into the Titan.

Here is a fuel cost comparison:

Gasoline   Diesel   MPG   MPG   Cost per 100 Miles   Cost per 100 Miles
Price   Price   Gasoline   Diesel   Gasoline Vehicle   Diesel Vehicle
               
$2.80   $3.90     20     28   $14.00                  $13.93

Since the initial cost of the diesel engine and the repair costs are higher
than the gas counterpart, the manufacturers might doubt the success of a diesel vehicle
in the US. If Diesel would be close to the gasoline cost like in Europe, it would be a whole different ball game.

This.

Hell, they are converting small aircraft in Europe to run off Diesel and engine conversions on light aircraft ain't exactly cheap. But without the similar prices per gallon (here) the economy of the whole thing doesn't make sense (here)

The cost of the fuel is largely due to two things:  taxation and the lower distribution of diesel.

Diesel taxes are about 50% higher at the Federal level and anywhere from 30 to 100% higher at the state level.  The rationale is that diesel is a "commercial" fuel, so the relevant authorities don't feel bad about taxing it higher. 

Secondly, the distribution is not as wide spread as gasoline.  If it were, you'd see a reduction in the per-gallon cost due to the market and more companies making it -- not all refineries make diesel, believe it or not.

The reason that the cars are more expensive is two-fold.  For one, the engines last longer so the dealer charges a small premium knowing your car is going to last longer.  Two, again, the free market.  If there were more diesels sold, competition and choice would drive the market down.

Diesels are a premium choice now-- look at the price of a USED diesel Jeep Liberty vs the price of the same model with a gas engine.  Same with the VW diesels.  People are willing to pay more for them.



I can't even imagine a diesel small plane engine.  That's pretty amazing. 

Didn't know where else to post this. This seems like a good spot. Just picture Homer Simpson saying his famous "Doh!" line...

http://www.wfaa.com/news/national/135996678.html (http://www.wfaa.com/news/national/135996678.html)

Hope it's not a derby.

lol

hence the thread name change  [laugh]

3500?  Out some liability on it lol.. or buy a house with the earnings

I don't get the difficulty in working with diesels, that is I don't quite understand what's so foreign about them. Gassers have spark ignition, diesels have compression ignition. Other than a few minor details, same concept. If you want to call yourself a tech, your expertise can't just shut off or hit a wall when you get faced with a diesel engine therefore I'm not buying it. It's literally a matter of having all the special tools, period.

I have a Merc turbodiesel wagon from 1985 with ~450k or so, still runs like a Swiss watch with excellent compression in all 5 pots. Easy to service, easy to live with. Old-skool indirect injection gets me about 30mpg consistently. Unbelieveably solid & well made. Unmistakeable sound. Best car I have ever had, keeps on truckin', and actually shows well despite the age & miles. Got it free from my father. I grew up riding in it. Needless to say, I am an expert in its maintenance & repair. These cars were actually made for the owner to service him or herself. They do not ride like antiques. They drive and ride better than most brand new autos, tight and smooth. Four wheel independent suspension with discs on all four corners. Door beams, crumple zones, breakaway interior bits. Handles awesome for a heavy car. Zero to 60 in 12 secs, cruises at 100 all day without complaint. Chicks dig it. 

I hit a deer at 90mph with this car, it ended up on its right side in the median. Myself and the some others tipped it back over onto its wheels, I changed a tire and a fuse and drove it another 500 miles. Damage was very minimal obviously, but far exceeded the value of the car. I did the right thing and got it fixed properly anyway. You don't trash a quality piece of hardware like that over a few scratches  :D

If you can score an old Benz oilburner you will understand what makes them the Greatest Car In The World. Only complaint I have would be the automatic climate control, it sucks. They should have just fitted the manual control from the Euro cars, less hassle.

Diesels have a bad rap due to GM's wonderful Oldsmobile and Cadillac diesel disasters from the '80s. They were basically 350 small blocks fitted with injection pumps. No more thought and engineering went into them than that. You can't just do that and call it good LOL you have to use common sense and design a specific diesel engine. As a result they had a high rate of failure and public opinion tanked. They were horrible cars. Meanwhile Mercedes Benz & Volkswagen were making diesel vehicles that were economical and worth owning.

huh?

Agree with "Booger", Diesel engines are more long lasting and easier to maintain, less parts and more torque'y. I think the whole idea behind having more Deisel cars versus gas cars is the same as having Electric cars.  The thirstier your engine the happier the oil companies.
Toyota makes desiel cars in Europe that gets way better gas millage than their hybrid Prius here, in fact I have a Yaris HB in which I hit the 45.1 MPG on a trip back from East Coast just by driving 60 MPH, but Toyota only advertise 33 Highway MPG for this car because they dont want to hurt the market for their more profitable "iconic" Prius...

no diesel is terrible, just terrible
My Golf is all the way down to 45-48mpg daily now that it's colder out and it's doing more regen cycles.  [cheeky]
Just terrible  ;D

One my all time favorites:
http://www.toyota.co.za/VehicleSpecification.aspx?VehicleModelID=29 (http://www.toyota.co.za/VehicleSpecification.aspx?VehicleModelID=29)

Diesel is readily available in practically all parts of the country, and while you might be accurate in saying not ALL refineries make diesel, most do, as it is easier to make than gasoline. In fact there is a LOT of diesel being exported from the US to Europe and South America right now.

Also be careful about comparing European mpg to US mpg, as an Imperial gallon is 25% bigger than a US gallon.

Out = put. Joke bout just putting liability on the lambing..

20% but yes that is a concern, which is why we look at L per 100km usage rather than MPG

DYAC?

oooooo a 4.2L I6...  droollll

but really, just 96kW?  the mitsubishi 4d56t is a 2.4l I4 and puts out around 130kW..  gobs more torque as well..

no turbo
with a turbo, it'd be a beast

i'll say.   a 4L 6cyl is a big momma

Damn auto correct *lambo

I could see nissan putting the 4cyl into this:

(http://www.nissancommercialvehicles.com/images/features/photos-360/rotation/silver_high0006.jpg)

it would make a great delivery vehicle.  Ugly as sin though.

mitt

Looks like someone crashed a Sprinter into the back of a Big rig at high speed.  :-X

i have the old model colorado which is very similar to the isuzu dmax , holding a 3litre diesel common rail with a variable vane turbo

using it for my daily work

fully loaded its weighing in at 2750kg

i just did a trip away and returned 8L/100k on the way home

which speaking of fuel costs

diesel was $1.45 a litre
91+10%ethanol was $1.45
95 $1.51
98 $1.57

a few pics

(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e264/the916man/Colorado/colorado002.jpg)

(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e264/the916man/GLASSHOUSE2010/QLD064.jpg)

(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e264/the916man/ZIGZAG/ZIGZAG22082010/zigzag22082010008.jpg)

2012 Ford Ranger

(http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlpicture&blobheader=image%2Fjpeg&blobheadername1=Cache-Control&blobheadername2=Content-Disposition&blobheadername3=Content-Length&blobheadervalue1=max-age%3D1000&blobheadervalue2=inline%3B+filename%3D1248903608971.jpg&blobheadervalue3=111324&blobkey=id&blobtable=DFYImage&blobwhere=1248903608971&ssbinary=true)
(http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlpicture&blobheader=image%2Fjpeg&blobheadername1=Cache-Control&blobheadername2=Content-Disposition&blobheadername3=Content-Length&blobheadervalue1=max-age%3D1000&blobheadervalue2=inline%3B+filename%3D1248903610712.jpg&blobheadervalue3=145519&blobkey=id&blobtable=DFYImage&blobwhere=1248903610712&ssbinary=true)
(http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlpicture&blobheader=image%2Fjpeg&blobheadername1=Cache-Control&blobheadername2=Content-Disposition&blobheadername3=Content-Length&blobheadervalue1=max-age%3D1000&blobheadervalue2=inline%3B+filename%3D1248903609148.jpg&blobheadervalue3=119316&blobkey=id&blobtable=DFYImage&blobwhere=1248903609148&ssbinary=true)
(http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlpicture&blobheader=image%2Fjpeg&blobheadername1=Cache-Control&blobheadername2=Content-Disposition&blobheadername3=Content-Length&blobheadervalue1=max-age%3D1000&blobheadervalue2=inline%3B+filename%3D1248903610696.jpg&blobheadervalue3=129205&blobkey=id&blobtable=DFYImage&blobwhere=1248903610696&ssbinary=true)

3.2L TDCi Diesel 147kW 470Nm
6-speed Manual Transmission (or optional 6-speed Automatic Transmission)

http://www.ford.com.au/commercial/new-ranger/models (http://www.ford.com.au/commercial/new-ranger/models)  ;D

Don't worry, I'll be posting photos of my new acquisition in the next week.

i hate you.  the isuzu diesels are awesome.

we MAY be getting some new oil burners next year:

http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2012/05/preview-2013-diesel-car-lineup-in-the-u-s/ (http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2012/05/preview-2013-diesel-car-lineup-in-the-u-s/)

but no small trucks..


Ford will not sell the crew-cab ranger in the USA because it would shut down their Sport-Trac sales.  Sport Trac is a Ford Explorer with a short bed.  Basically a worthless pos unless you are just hauling home stuff from IKEA. They don't want to close down the line making Explorers.

The Durateq or whatever engine they have in Europe for the diesels is boss.

I thought they killed the Sport Trac when the Explorer was redesigned for '12?

And the new global Ranger is closer in size to the F-150, so their thinking was that they'd just get those customers into an entry level F-150 instead of the Ranger. 

yep, i just looked again and the sport trac is gone. 

The global ranger is 210 inches long, US ranger is 190 inches and the F150 is 231 inches OAL, so I think you have a point about that.

How about this.

http://www.cumminsdieselspecs.com/67.html (http://www.cumminsdieselspecs.com/67.html)

"In February 2011, Chrysler announced a 150 lb-ft increase in the 6.7L Cummins torque, bringing total output to 800 lb-ft. Horsepower remains a peak 350 hp despite the torque increase. "

"diesel small truck"

Maybe Mazda will bring the new global Ranger to the USA for you?

(http://www.mazda.com.au/~/media/Mazda/Images/Media%20Gallery/Models/All%20New%20BT%2050/All%20New%20BT-50%20Beach%20-%2023112011%2021105%20PM.ashx?w=766&h=431&bc=black&as=1)
(http://www.mazda.com.au/~/media/Mazda/Images/Media%20Gallery/Models/All%20New%20BT%2050/All%20New%20BT-50%20Rooftop%20-%2023112011%2024201%20PM.ashx?w=766&h=431&bc=black&as=1)

Same ute, same diesels, different Japofunky styling.

Surely this one is coming to the USA.... after all its a Chevy.... and American as... um.... sushi and kaeng phet pet yang.

All new 2012 Chevrolet/Holden Colorado.  Built by Isuzu in Thailand.

(http://www.holden.com.au/resources/images/vehicleModules/colorado/front3-4.jpg)
(http://www.chevrolet.co.id/cld/gbr_pht/exterior-06.jpg)
(http://www.chevrolet.co.id/cld/gbr_pht/exterior-02.jpg)
(http://www.holden.com.au/resources/images/vehicleModules/colorado/side.jpg)

2.8litre turbo diesel  132kW 440Nm
6-speed Manual Transmission (or optional 6-speed Automatic Transmission)

www.chevroletcolorado2012 (http://www.holden.com.au/pages/colorado-coming-soon)

built by gm in thailand

the old colorado was gm built using isuzu motor

the old rodeo was isuzu build

isuzu and gm had a disagreement hence why you ended up with the colorado

um.... so the new Chevy/Holden Colorado is built by GM in Thailand using GM diesels?  Heres me thinking that coz it continues to share much with the new Isuzu Dmax that they're built on the same line.........

And Isuzu builds the new Dmax in Thailand (same vehicle under the skin) but using Isuzu's own diesels?

Almost identical vehicles, jointly developed by two vehicle manufacturers admist disagreement, built in seperate plants... ?

No wonder auto makers cant make money  [laugh].


Q) Why is sitting inside the new 2012 Isuzu Dmax a better place to be than the almost identical interior of the new 2012 Holden/Chevy Colorado?

Colorado interior....
(http://www.holden.com.au/resources/images/vehicleModules/colorado/comfort_and_style.jpg)

Dmax interior....
(http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/2012-Isuzu-D-Max-2-625x416.jpg)

A) Coz inside the Dmax you cant see its exterior "styling"  [puke]

2012 Dmax...
(http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/themes/caradvice/tools/timthumb.php?src=http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/2012-Isuzu-D-Max-61.jpg&h=417&w=625&zc=1)
(http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/themes/caradvice/tools/timthumb.php?src=http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/2012-Isuzu-D-Max-51.jpg&h=417&w=625&zc=1)

great article answering your questions

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-reviews-road-tests/new_2012_holden_colorado_first_drive_review (http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-reviews-road-tests/new_2012_holden_colorado_first_drive_review)

Buying a Chevy Orlando, which is not available in the US. 2 liter diesel with 7 seats and actually affordable. I think because it's not sold in the US, they can't double the price like they do for any other car.

Found a review for the gas version:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/03/review-chevrolet-orlando/ (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/03/review-chevrolet-orlando/)

1) Marketing it in the US (if it met US safety regs) would vastly increase unit sales.... and therefore production volumes, which you'd think would lead to it becoming less expensive, not more.
2) From my perspective vehicles sold in the US are much less expensive than the same vehicle sold anywhere else.
3) Its not a diesel small truck.

Apart from that I agree with you completely  ;D

I'm living in Chile, which means that any car sold down here that is also sold in the US is sold automatically at double of what you would buy there. So in this case it's a godsend that they don't sell it over there. I know it's nt quite a truck, but a small minivan, which apparently are used as trucks in many parts of the world.

Sounds like we're in fierce agreement my fellow southern hemisphere friend  [thumbsup]

Fiercely agree!

The Chevy Colorado will be coming to USA and built here, they are re-tooling all the plants to make the new 13' models for the Colorado and the silverado. I know this because i have a 97' 1500 with 212k on her and have been hunting down every tid bit of information. Maybe Chevy will put a oil burner in the silverado, as they look better(imho) and have a 6ft bed. One can only hope!

Silverado is due for a model change soon as well.  There's oft been rumors of a 1/2 ton diesel, yet nobody has pulled the trigger yet.

The Raptor by Ford should have a diesel.  At least that's what I wanted last night but instead drove out with Moby Dick.   [laugh]  I'm in love again.
(http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq53/montey2005/ade48930.jpg)

I like the border patrol raptor package

wtf is it with ford's front ends nowadays???

(http://s1.static.gotsmile.net/images/2010/10/07/fat_lips.jpg_1286418905.jpg)

Made so that you speed up when I'm behind you clogging traffic.  :P. Imposing and big

...chrome covered plastic...   [thumbsdown]

So is Chevy and GMC.   A remedy is coming soon. 

not so much a truck... 

...more a of radiator grille with payload capabilities

looks like there really isn't that big of a market for diesels here in the states after all (excluding HD pickups).

the overall car market is up 14%, so it does appear that there may be a slight uptick for the diesel market.

this report may be slightly biased as the company preparing it is pro-hybids.

however, numbers don't lie and 64K units over six months is virtually nothing in a market of about 7M vehicles.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/02/diesel-vehicle-sales-up-27-5-so-far-in-2012/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/02/diesel-vehicle-sales-up-27-5-so-far-in-2012/)

I'll be the first to cough "bullsh*t" on this one.

I think the fact that 2 out of every 3 Audi A3s sold in the US so far this year have been TDIs is telling a different story from what this report is trying to tell. (Reported right in the article linked)

Add to that the fact that 44% of VW Jettas sold this year (according to reports in April: http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/18/diesel-sales-jump-we-ask-how-high-35-percent/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/18/diesel-sales-jump-we-ask-how-high-35-percent/)) were TDIs, is also reinforcing that message.

If every car on the market was available with the option for traditional gas engine, a gas-electric hybrid, diesel, hydrogen, and full electric, I'd pay attention to the percentage of overall vehicles sold that were diesels. But with a limited selection of models that offer the option, I'd say its still looking up and up.

Also, the diesel options are generally more expensive.

A3 sales through July = 4,229, so 2/3rds = 2,791 (source = http://www.audiusanews.com/pressrelease/3082/98/audi-sets-all-time-u.s-july-sales-record (http://www.audiusanews.com/pressrelease/3082/98/audi-sets-all-time-u.s-july-sales-record))

Jetta sales through July = 84,185, which 44% of which would be 37,041. (sales data: http://media.vw.com/pressrelease/1129/130/volkswagen-reports-27.3-sales-increase-july (http://media.vw.com/pressrelease/1129/130/volkswagen-reports-27.3-sales-increase-july))

Still small potatoes when you consider through July, there have been 8,425,949 light vehicles sold across the USA.  (http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120801/RETAIL01/120809998/1448/u-s-sales-rise-9-toyota-honda-vw-offset-declines-at-gm-ford (http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120801/RETAIL01/120809998/1448/u-s-sales-rise-9-toyota-honda-vw-offset-declines-at-gm-ford))

but better potatoes  ;D

my potato can beat up your potato

If I could have a small diesel option in my Dakota, I would.  the V8 that is so good a playing in the mud & snow and hauling 1,000lbs+ of wood several times a winter only gets 14MPG on a good day.  That's why it is 11 years old and only has 48,000 miles on it.

JM

Well, it's slim pickings for available diesels in the US..cars, but especially trucks. There's no way around that affecting the numbers.

I just bought a gas-powered Frontier Pro-4X...because that's all they had. I would have gotten a diesel version if it was available. May have even considered a 1/2-ton full size diesel if it was available...but nope.

let's look at it from a different angle.

if you're an auto manufacturer and you need to decide on what to build and you have a finite amount of resources - both capital and engineering.

would you take the time to develop (and certify for emissions - where there is a considerable cost that we can't talk about on here) a diesel engine for a particular model to see a small increase in sales? 

Or would you go with what you already have in the stable?

There are other costs involved as well, such as technician & salesperson training.  A manufacturer like Nissan (since Triple J just mentioned them) would need to spend a considerable amount of time and money doing just that in order to sell & service a diesel powered Frontier.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a turbo diesel Tacoma or FJ Cruiser.  But it just doesn't pencil from an economic standpoint.

and the above summarizes the death of the Hummer.  Who is next?  [popcorn]

Why does it pencil for other countries, but not the US?

I can see tech. training, but salesperson training?

I have never owned a diesel vehicle but was fortunate enough to see and ride what BMW and Mercedes produce in Germany. I was impressed with the performance, fuel consumption and quiet ride. The diesel engines far outlast their gasoline equivalents which would justify the higher initial cost.
It doesn't hurt that diesel is a good deal cheaper in Europe which accounts for the popularity and advancement of diesel vehicles.
Interesting article: http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2012-carbon-motors-e7-cop-car-to-use-bmw-diesel-power-car-news (http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2012-carbon-motors-e7-cop-car-to-use-bmw-diesel-power-car-news)

In Mexico, you can buy a diesel powered Toyota HiLux.

I'm guessing that the emission standards specific to diesels are vastly different than they are here. 

Technician training would be a bigger piece of that pie, but yes salesperson training would be required from the manufacturer. Unless you'd feel good buying a vehicle from someone who knows nothing about it.

Like the guy that sold me my 2012 Tacoma?  :)

Was about to say; how is that situation different from what we have now?

+1 on that
Every previous dealership until we our Audi, the sale people knew only basics about the car they were selling. The owners of that Audi dealership though, seem like they intentionally hired car guys as just about all the guys there mod their cars and even if some don't get their hands dirty, they know what they're paying for. Hell, the dealership I got my Golf at, the service department knew shockingly little about certain things and I'll never bring my car there for anything. This other place also sells VWs and even though they are further away, I won't hesitate to let them touch my car if I don't feel like doing something with it myself.
It scares me a little how poorly some of the staff at some of these places seem to be trained.

You can buy a diesel powered HiLux in most countries on Earth.  The real point is that its the US which is the exception.

Why?

I would think the title of the thread answered that... "You're too stupid to..."

Looks like others have made my point!  [laugh]


Yep. I can see emmissions being an issue though. I thought CARB in CA was the main part of why we don't have a lot of diesels.

When we were car shopping my wife kept trying to get me to get a job at the car dealerships. She said I'd make the best car salesman ever because everywhere we went, I think I taught the salesman new about the car that they didn't know. I taught one guy what exactly independent rear suspension actually means, and why the car he was trying to sell me didn't have it (even though he assured me it did)  :P

I told her I'd make a terrible car salesman...as I don't like people  [laugh]

Either way, I'll agree with everyone else. I was disgusted at the lack of automobile knowledge the sale staff (at EVERY dealership we went to) had. Even if your not a car guy...atleast read the brochure for the cars your selling. You should know the difference between a direct-injected turbocharged 4 cylinder, and an old fashion V6. You should know that without popping the hood on the car. AND when you do pop the hood on the car (because I'm going to look under there), you should be able to tell that you made a mistake, and this is NOT a V6  >:(

And yes. I know the difference between all wheel drive and front wheel drive. And yes, I can tell the difference while driving the car. And yes...I did just take the freeway entrance ramp at 80mph in your lot demo  [evil] [evil] [evil]

^^^ This.

You aren't supposed to red line all the test drive cars???......who would have thought......the fastest car is a rental....

[threadjack]funny picture relating to that vehicle..

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/oleg1483/SPd2d3TVhTI/AAAAAAAAAVM/eOZ-lFwexxk/Carbon-Motors-E7.png)

[/endthreadjack]


so what you are saying coincides with what I have been saying...that VW could simply bring the Amarok here due to most of the product ( ie:drivetrain and motor and special training and various surrounding specs) is already technology on current vehicles here...the only thing needed would be the product training for sales people as they would normally get on any new product launch

I would buy a VW TDI truck INSTANTLY.

Hell, I often think about finding an old NA diesel Caddy that will get insane fuel economy.

me too on the Amorok...my Subaru Baja Turbo would be traded in yesterday for it!

I had a Caddy...I somewhat miss it...it was a diesel that had a 1.8 JH GTi solid lifter head motor put into it by the P.O. and was still getting me 35+ mpg as a gas machine....tis a shame the passenger side strut tower was rusting through, or I would have kept it, but I sold it to a guy that needed parts off it and bought the ScoobyTruck.

Yea, the 250,000+ mile Hilux we abused in Australia offered no complaints or anything.  I'd replace my Dakota with one if I could get it!!!

JM

I like the look of the Amarok too, but I'd really want to make sure it wasn't another Honda Ridgeline

Big oil. They kill any ideas that might lead to less consumption of gasoline or oil.


Buy a NGV car or truck. If the 2000 Ford E van Zina and I bought had been natural gas, instead of spending $35,000 on gasoline over it's 116000 miles, it would have cost $13,000 to drive those same miles. A savings in $ equivalent to the new sale price of aforementioned Ford E van.

I'm totally going to become a psycho CNG geek. I sold my gasoline powered 4 wheelers and will only buy NGV now. $2/gallon and same MPG as you got before. Buy used and they're not much more expensive than gasoline propelled vehicles.

Oh and solo HOV carpool lane access. Here's my shopping list for vehicles (http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm#vehicles).

Natural gas = cleaner than hybrids, no batteries that fail, $2/gallon, comes from the USA so $$$ stay in USA.

Almost better than  [bacon]

Do they make compressor stations that you can run at your house?

Yes. A friend of mine installs them.

Oh wow! Please pass me his info. That brings the total cost of fueling to under $1/gallon! Of course there's buying the thing... :P

How's the Panigale? I'm in awe of what Ducati has been up to lately.

;D Chris

I think chris might be a friend of T Boone Pickens

PM sent.

And its way more convenient.

Not yet. ;D Heard the name... and I get why cng/ngv people are kinda nutty. I really am disturbed that there are still gasoline cars. :P

it is only because the petroleum companies have all the right people in their pockets to keep them afloat....why do you think diesel is so expensive now?....it is a byproduct of manufacturing gas and they realized it was a better alternative and a better profit margin if they jacked it up...god forbid they help find their own replacement....

I did lots of lexis/nexis research in `96 for college papers. Everything I could find on 2 stroke engine technology... Toyota, Ford, and GM had serious programs underway. GM had a plan for 100hp 3 cyl ceramic 2 stroke that was emissions-clean. They were hung up on the marketing standpoint of perceived unreliable nature of 2 smokes. So they were going to offer to replace the engine for very cheap, like $300~500.

Yeah big oil killed that all off. Told them to knock it off. Big oil was threatening Honda, too, about the NGV Civics but they flipped the bird to Oil...

Shrug.  "Big Oil" is responsible for NatGas and also large scale geothermal plants.  Soprano's quote, ". . . interested in what ever makes shit gr$$n . . ."

Nat gas make big boom in a wreck, no?

Nah. Google around. Fire Departments say it's the safest energy storage in cars; much better than 10 to 30 gallons of liquid flame propellant. Tanks are strong as hell and don't POP. If you manage to POP the tank, you're already being cut into little pieces by train wheels, etc... When natural gas leaks, it rises quickly and dissipates. At 3600 psi, the systems are very strong.

Plus, it's the same exact stuff that is in homes and businesses all over.

Wow, just saw this on CNGnow.com (http://CNGnow.com):

and...

NG has been in use in Europe for a decade. A friend of mine in Belgium set up his F150 to run on NG and gas. NG in some areas costs less than a third of the Arab stuff. The US has one of the largest reserves of NG and could put some competitive pressure on gasoline prices by promoting a different fuel . But then again... silly me...why would the oil companies want to compete against themselves.

Details please.

Driven hundreds of thousands of kilometres on gas (by which I mean gas, rather than petrol...) .. make the beast with two backs.

I'll start again  ;D.

Driven hundreds of thousands of kilometres in a variety of LPG powered vehicles, some conversions and more recently dedicated LPG factory built Ford Falcons.  Cost of LPG at the pump is around half that of petrol gasoline, although LPG consumption is around 30% greater, but still the savings are there.  Power output from the LPG powered Falcons suffers to the tune of around 10% compared to the gasoline fueled variants.  Its noticeable.

Not sure if the same would be true for LNG, but its worth mentioning that some vehicles converted to run on LPG from gasoline suffered valve and valve seat damage.

LPG seems to be on the rapid decline now in Australia (excluding taxis).  Many fleets - including The Salt Mine - are switching to modern Euro-built fuel efficient turbo diesels. 
 

Because they're not competing against themselves? Gaseous hyrocarbon or liquid hydrocarbon is still a hydrocarbon; "big oil" doesn't care.  They just switch resources from one to the other depending on the market demand and projected profit margin.

we are off the subject a bit on the whole diesel thing...but since we are talking CNG...someone needs to look up the Leno's Garage link when he interviews JT Nesbitt about the CNG custom roadster with the 4.2 Jag motor he converted and built....I would, but it is a filtered out ( ie:read blocked ) thing on our web firewall here at work...

People call him. He sends crew to their home. Crew installs CNG refilling equipment. People pay him.  :)

A link to a website would be more appropriate than sarcasm in this instance...

no? ;D

It was an ambiguous question. And my friends operation isn't national. San Diego is likely the far edge of the service area.

Plus his website is weak.

as is your excuse...

You should let your friend decide the limits of his operation.

I don't see big oil as the enemy of CNG...after all, they are involved in that as well. Money is money to them.

I see government, especially local ones, being the big enemy. It's easy to tax the crap out of gasoline. Not so much with CNG when people can fill up at home...and just taxing all natural gas is tricky, since a high % of people use it to heat their homes and cook their food.  [coffee]

The ambiguous response tells me you probably dont know....
 ;D

Diesel.

Small.

Truck.

 [popcorn]

Herding

Cats

With

ADD

D
I
Y
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=358097 (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=358097)

It would be nice to have those fabrication skills!

JM

I guarantee he won't be going to DC to install something in your house. I'm sure there are installers in your area.

perhaps your friend might be able to refer him to someone in that area instead of blindly thumbing through the yellow pages?

You guys are funny. I referred Chris to my friend because he is local and I feel comfortable sending my friend to Chris. That's it. I apologize for not going to PM with it. I apologize to rgramjet for joking with him. I would suggest calling your local gas provider for a list of approved installers for your area. The list is likely short.

Jeep is jumping back into Diesel for 2014:


http://www.toledoblade.com/Automotive/2013/01/14/Jeep-unveils-refreshed-2014-Grand-Cherokee.html (http://www.toledoblade.com/Automotive/2013/01/14/Jeep-unveils-refreshed-2014-Grand-Cherokee.html)

Funny.  I was just thinking about this thread this weekend...  As I'm in need of a Bonneville tow vehicle/race hauler/thingy...

A bunch of makers are coming out with diesel cars and CUVs.. Mazda, Chevy, Cadillac..

but no small trucks... :-/

The Chevy Cruze in diesel sounds interesting.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-09-06/news/35496469_1_diesel-passenger-cars-chevy-cruze-jetta-tdi (http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-09-06/news/35496469_1_diesel-passenger-cars-chevy-cruze-jetta-tdi)

I got a diesel F250 I'm probably going to sell.

year and details?

1996 extended cab longbed.
7.3 powerstroke
5 Speed manual
2x4
243k on the odo
Recent tires(10k), new shocks, new water pump, broken A/C.
About 16mpg is what I get, but I commute up a mountain.

Basically this:
(http://imganuncios.mitula.net/1996_white_ford_f250_super_cab_for_sale_in_bend_or_97701_96635318379914548.jpg)

(not my truck)

6K/BO.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Where do you live? Travis will be here and heading East-mebbe you can con him into driving it.

Jeep needs to make something like this,

(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/01/01-aev-brute-double-cab-fd-opt.jpg)
AEV Brute Double Cab (http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/11/2013-aev-brute-double-cab-quick-spin-review/)

And stick a diesel in it......i would trade in my tacoma in heart beat.

I would GLADLY have a similar (or more) power producing diesel in my Dakota rather than the 4.7 V8 it has.  It's a good motor, but would take two diesels to equal its fuel consumption!

JM

DC area.  Just noticed its not 4wd.  Gotta have that.

Yeah in Cali it's just a waste of fuel.

Two too many doors.  [cheeky]

They also make this kit for a more serious off roader.
(http://www.aev-conversions.com/shop/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/545x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/r/brutekit_dtl.jpg)
Original Brute Kit (http://www.aev-conversions.com/shop/shop-by-category/brute/brute-kit.html)

and yes i am scouring craigslist for beater jeeps so i can do this.

that is awesome!!!...with a diesel, I'd dump my Subaru Baja for that in a heartbeat, since I know I am not going to get an Amorok!

This!  Shame that it's going to be at least 2015 before they think about dropping a diesel into the Wrangler for the US market.  And that's IF they think about it.

Not "small" but "smaller"

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2013/02/14/ram-to-build-only-light-duty-diesel-pickup/?intcmp=features (http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2013/02/14/ram-to-build-only-light-duty-diesel-pickup/?intcmp=features)

It's a start.  [thumbsup]

Yup.

30/21mpg about, 450 ft-lbs of torque.... do want.

I STILL wish my Dakota (4.7L V8) was a diesel.  Come on Dodge, I'll be your beta tester!

JM

I'm with you....unless someone trumps this one it will be my next truck

Jeep Wrangler in 2015.

FINALLY

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/28/jeep-wrangler-diesel-likely-after-2015-model-refresh/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+autoblog%2FHrEx+%28Autoblog%29&utm_content=Yahoo (http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/28/jeep-wrangler-diesel-likely-after-2015-model-refresh/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+autoblog%2FHrEx+%28Autoblog%29&utm_content=Yahoo)!+Mail

And there was much rejoicing. 

Bastards! If they had done this a year ago, I wouldn't have bought my F250!

Curious to see what sort of upgrade packages will be required in the possible diesel Wrangler.  The new Grand Cherokees cost an additional what, $4500 just for the diesel?  Slap that option on a Rubi and you're now looking at a $46K Wrangler? 

You are correct about the 4500 option for the diesel. This is why they are never going to adopted by the masses in the USA, it's not worth it for most people. Cost needs to come down before they are adopted.


Does anyone else think about this? I'm always wishing toyota calls me and asks if i would test out their new turbo diesel.  I'll keep dreaming....

This might be off interest to some Re the Land rover 110, VW amrok, and Ford Ranger

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-10-best-cars-not-sold-in-america-005104431.html?page=2 (http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-10-best-cars-not-sold-in-america-005104431.html?page=2)

No kidding.

My 2-door '13 Sahara stickered for a hair over $35K, which I thought was/is make the beast with two backsing ridiculous.

I can only imagine how awesome a diesel Wrangler would be though.  8)

Apparently not as awesome as you might imagine.....

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-reviews-road-tests/jeep_wrangler_unlimited_crd_review (http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-reviews-road-tests/jeep_wrangler_unlimited_crd_review)

Of course they didn't like it, it was RHD.   [cheeky]

Seriously though, to those who have driven Wranglers and know their limitations, 90% of that article's gripes are moot.  Give me a diesel and a manual transmission and BOOM!

 4 stars out of 5 isnt bad at all.  Most of the criticism seems to be the styling.

I've been toying with the idea lately of buying a really really late model jeep/taco and turning it into a dune runner/fishing truck.....There is a beach in Mass that lets you drive on the beach at the end of the season( just in the time for when the fish start migrating back south). Short wheel base, 4x4, stick some good tires for sand on it. A place for a cooler and rods, some big lights, maybe a rack for my kayak................I'm getting ahead of myself.....hehe....

diesel?

Totally. They're not for everyone...

My '13 is my fourth, and I have to laugh at a lot of the reviews I've read on them.

Sounds like we are too stupid for small trucks (not just diesel).  All the US mfgr's are dropping their small trucks.

The colorado is coming back next year, it might actually give the tacoma a run for its money......though these are really midsize trucks not "small trucks" by any sense of the word.

I read an article on that (which my no means makes me an expert, but here goes anyways).  Seems how the EPA classifies vehicles leaves manufacturers out in the cold when it comes to meeting emissions for both station wagons and small pick-up trucks.  Something about the area on the road surface that the vehicle takes up...

CAFE!! You are correct, they do it by vehicle foot print. This lead to the creation of the PT cruiser, its classified as a small pick up i think haha. So they could count the PT for their Truck/SUV MPG target.

Yeah well my last little pickup got like, 17-19 mpg-regular cab, manual,. haul maybe 500 lbs and stay happy, 800 it would whine and I don't think I put more in there than that.

Current ginormous extended cab long bed diesel beast gets about 15/16 and is infinitely more useable. If you NEED a truck I don't see the point of a small one. Only real advantage is parking.

The current generation double-cab long bed Toyota HiLux with 2.5L diesel in the UK gets almost 39 MPG combined.  The 3.0 version gets 36 mpg combined. 

The 2.5L version gets 140 hp / 343 ft lbs torque and 0-60 in 12 seconds.  It's exactly what we need in the US for a small truck.  If Toyota sold this version, Ford would go bankrupt when their F150 sales tanks.

http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/generic_editorial.jsp?navRoot=toyota_1024_root&fullwidth=true&noLeftMenu=true&forceText=%3Cnone%3E&edname=CC2-Hilux-specification&zone=Zone+NG+Hilux&id=CC2-Hilux-specification (http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/generic_editorial.jsp?navRoot=toyota_1024_root&fullwidth=true&noLeftMenu=true&forceText=%3Cnone%3E&edname=CC2-Hilux-specification&zone=Zone+NG+Hilux&id=CC2-Hilux-specification)

It's not a true "small truck", but it's smaller than the American-spec Toyota Tacoma.

Aussies are just a bunch of spoiled pricks! [evil]




 [cheeky] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

Yup  ;D ;D ;D

We got more diesel "small trucks" ("ute" is the proper name) than you can poke a stick at  8) 8) 8)

Not just us though.  Most lands on Earth have mid-sized fuel efficient diesel utes available from most manufacturers.  My theory is that its because we in the rest of the world have to pay money for the fuel, whereas in the US since it's virtually given away free there's no great incentive to be frugal with it [evil].



 

I remember the terrible things we did to a diesel Hilux when I was in Australia.  Those are tough little trucks.

HN

Yep.

And the bullshit nonsense collectively known as the EPA.

More to do with California's CARB rules from what I understand.

The manufacturers know people want them here. When I bought my truck I asked the Nissan dealer if there were any plans to bring the Navaro (Nissan's version of the Helix) over to the US. He said he wishes...gets asked all the time, and they've let Nissan know a lot that they want them. He thought they'd sell a ton of them.

We wish for more fuel efficient engines, everybody else wishes they had our gas prices. Just a tad ironic.

Utter nonsense and I expect better from you. They use kilometers in the UK-they don't get MPG. Sheesh  [roll]

I wonder who really it is speaking utter nonsense? 

In the UK they use miles.

The same miles containing the same utterly nonsensical 1760 yards as you persist with in the USA.

Their utterly nonsensical gallons however get more utterly nonsensical miles than your utterly nonsensical gallons due to utterly nonsensical gallon non-standardisation.

Soooooo... shall you be eating your utter nonsense now or will you be doing it later?  ;D

 [popcorn]

Now now, lets not be too terribly dismissive of the Brits and their systems of measuring volumes.  The imperial pint is a wonderful thing!

Everyone knows they measure hectares per hogshead.

Which is a measure of area, not volume.  You rocket scientists aren't that bright...

 ;D

Its a wonder we ever got people into space.

38 imperial mpg is 31 US mpg.  Still beats the crap out of any truck in the US. 

Hectares?  Now you're just being sensible  [bang].

They use acres.... all utterly nonsensical 4840 sq. yards of 'em. 

Pointy end Up.  It's not that hard  ;) ;D

It may not be a Pickup(though I have seen more than a couple of "Conversions"), but I can get 27mpg in my 83 MB Diesel S-Class. Bought it for $2400 about 8 years ago, and has been mostley trouble free. Can easily haul the previously mentioned 500-800 pounds of junk, as long as it fits. lol

I have considered getting a beat up diesel wagon and chopping the top, but they are popular and run more expensive.

Not a pickup but an excellent example of stupid:

In 1999 I was in Europe and saw the Mercedes Smart car for the first time.  I noticed not just because of it's size but because the guy in it was burning rubber!  I headed over to see about the car and got a great little tour.  50mpg diesel engine with a ton of torque and fun as heck to zip around the parking lot.  I thought "If that makes it to the USA it could make a fantastic commuter car".

Well a few years later I saw one here in The States.  35mpg and a gutless 3 cylinder motor......... Needless to say I now refer to it as the Mercedes stupid car..........

I had also rented a diesel Opel station wagon while there 45mpg fast as hell with four wheel Brembo brakes........ 

All we get in the States are stupid cars...............

Looks pretty easy to me.  [laugh]

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3716/9136370033_41e54513b5_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79721557@N02/9136370033/)

Yup!  [thumbsup]

Doesn't look that bad.

BTW, BMW makes Smart Cars, not MB. 

I drove Smarts in Germany and thought they were just a gutless as the one's we have here.

Smart is Mercedes
Mini is BMW

Nope, MB has always owned the Smart brand.

www.smartusa.com (http://)

Scroll down to see the copyright.

Ooops, my bad.   8)

I guess I remembered wrong.  Thought the Smart dealers were co-housed with BMW dealer in Germany.   :-[

^^ This.

I have a 2011 Silverado Duramax.  Once I learned what all was included in the required emissions system, I understood why we don't have more diesels.  GM shelved the 4.5L Duramax, and retooling it for the newest standards would cost millions.  The fans of the "Duraburb" are fanatical, but GM management is asking how many are there with money to buy? (I think there should be enough, but I don't give GM management much credit in the brains department... they can be monumentally stupid)

These emissions regs are also what keeps more of the small VW diesels away (like the very frugal 1.6).  They can only afford to certify a handful of their range to US EPA spec.

Ditto for Toyota with the 2.5TD in the HiLux.  Too much money to federalize the emissions.  I saw several on a trip to the Philippines... man, I want one so bad!  I am sorely tempted to buy a wrecker next time we're there, strip the engine/trans/electrics, ship it here, and find a run-out Taco to stuff it in.  I live in an area with no emissions inspections, so it'd be fine to run out here.  You'd never be able to register it in an area with emissions testing, but if I ever had to move, I'm pretty sure I could find a buyer out here in eastern Washington or Oregon who'd love a newer smallish diesel pickup.  Several of my coworkers expressed interest in such a conversion as well.

US spec is not the problem.  IT is California's ARB diesel rules and the 11 states that follow CARB.

Jeep was going to put out a "43 state legal" diesel in 2008( ?) but decided against it.

CARB had good reason to implement the high bar of emissions... until this came out:
http://www.examiner.com/article/calif-climategate-part-ii-air-board-s-340-pollution-error (http://www.examiner.com/article/calif-climategate-part-ii-air-board-s-340-pollution-error)

And of course the fact that the individual responsible for this "error" had apparently falsified his academic credentials, and yet, CARB did not revise nor revisit his findings even though they were aware he overestimated the emissions by over 300%

Kay, just incase you don't know, CARB allows conversion of a gasoline vehicle to diesel as an alternative fuel. This also makes it exempt from smog regs and checks: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=210359 (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=210359)

I can't find the form on the DMV website, but I have a copy of it somewhere if anyone needs one. Pre 98 vehicles are no problem. Later than that, and it gets sketchy.

I stand corrected.  Sorry... I had forgotten that CARB is a bigger problem.  Kali's car market is a huge chunk of the total US car market, so for a vehicle to make financial sense it generally must be 50-state legal.  Add to that the fact other states like Orygun and Washington have adopted the self-harming CARB rules... and we have created a nonsensical barrier to truly efficient vehicles.

I do maintain that the EPA isn't helping.  EPA has their own rules for diesel particulates and NOx which differ from the more commonly accepted Euro standards.  And, it is expensive to retool emissions equipment to hit different targets.

Consistency and sound science-based standards would go a long way toward getting the more efficient engines available here in the US.

DMV form Statement of Facts. Check box for exempt from smog DIESEL: done. Might have to ref it though. http://apps.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg256.pdf (http://apps.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg256.pdf)

Hmm... this is interesting.  I wonder if the same applies in Oregon and Washington.  If a diesel-swapped Taco was legal to register and emissions-exempt, that would be a HOT seller in Portland or Seattle.  I should go into the conversion business.  I have family in the Philippines, so a source of inexpensive Toyota diesel parts.  I have a 2400 sqft garage at my disposal (and an equally large gym/barn/multi-purpose-room for storage), so workspace to perform swaps is also available.  I have the cash saved up to install a 2-post lift as well.  Hmm... ideas...  [coffee]

Looking at it more closely... the swap probably has to be a US-spec motor & emissions system.  I could still do a foreign-market swap out here in central/eastern Washington, where there is no inspection, but I would not be able to sell it west of the Oregon or Washington Cascades.

Of course, I know the NSA is reading all of this... but I'm guessing that they don't give a rat's a$$ about EPA violations.   [cheeky]

All pre 98 diesels are exempt from smog in CA. My 83 MB diesel has never been inspected. From what I have read on Toyota forums from those who have done the conversion in CA(do a search), all the Referee wants to know is that it is the proper motor for the class of vehicle, and that it is indeed a diesel.

Actually, to do a swap and be EPA legal, it has to be a SAME YEAR compliance.

Technically, yes. But as in the DMV form, once the conversion is done it is smog EXEMPT. Many people have done this with earlier motors, and were fine. Do some searches for 'Diesel conversion in CA Toyota'. Many have done it with earlier motors and been fine. Have you been to a Referee before? I knew one by first name in High School trying to get my Bradley Kit car(VW based) registered. All the ref cares is what the DMV wants to know: Is it a diesel or isn't it? Is it a CAR with a CAR engine or a TRUCK with a TRUCK engine. It is only a visual inspection here in CA to confirm that it is a diesel conversion, and not someone trying to get a free ride without a smog check. Same as when my stepdad registered the electric pickup we built. They just wanted to see under the hood to make sure it was being registered as what it was. Look at the form link that I provided. The provision is that any pre 98 vehicle can be EXEMPT from smog if it is converted to Electric, Diesel or 'Other' fuel. The provision is there because people generally want to do a diesel conversion to run on veggie oil/Biodiesel. They don't care beyond the facts of it.

Have you modded your Duramax at all?  Ive got an 06 LBZ.  Gets 22 mph on the highway.  Intake, exhaust and stage 3 hypertech.

That's interesting and useful to know. 

The federal law is very specific about conversions, but since there is no obligation to have it inspected for the EPA, then it is up to the state to allow or disallow it. 

I've wanted a Jeep CJ with a diesel ...  Never made any sense to me to only sell Jeeps in gasoline.

I'd toss kittens into traffic all day long for a diesel JK Unlimited.

You yanks are funny.

My work is about 350 km out of town in the Australian outback. To get there we have a mix of Toyota Landcruisers, Mitsubishi Triton utes, and the odd Toyota Prado. All turbo diesel. With the exception of the landbarges (4.5 l V8 dual turbo) they all get good fuel economy.

If you show up out there with a petrol vehicle looking for fuel, you're outta luck. Everything runs on diesel - vehicles, generators, everything.

Back home my car is a Peugeot 307 1.6 l turbo diesel, which gets 4 l/100km on the open road.

I'd toss puppies and kittens into traffic for a turbo diesel Taco.

Damn EPA/CARB, This is where regulation does more harm than good.....Let the market decide!

...and this is where I'll insert a friendly reminder that this is getting political.

Rumors of it coming after 2014 refresh

with a 2.8 CRD i4

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/04/27/jeep-grand-cherokee-wrangler-unlimited-diesel-first-drive/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2011/04/27/jeep-grand-cherokee-wrangler-unlimited-diesel-first-drive/)

Wish I was getting 22 on the highway!

Mine gets 16ish in mixed highway/city driving.  Did manage to break 17 on the last tank.  It's only got 12500 miles on it though... and hasn't lived a hard life, so it's definitely not broken in yet.  I loaned it to my dad this weekend so he could haul his 22' travel trailer over the Cascades for a camping trip... I figure a little work will help with the break-in.

No real mods yet.  It's leveled, has slightly bigger BFG AT T/As on it.  I had a Line-X bedliner sprayed in when it was new.  It's a farm & ranch truck, so it gets all sorts of crap thrown in the bed (firewood, rocks, auto parts, tractor implements, etc).  I love tossing stuff in and not having to worry about it.  I am a *little* careful with the heavy metal objects so as not to scrape the coating off, but that's about all I have to worry about.

I want to do the DPF delete.  We live on 600 acres that is mostly grassland... and we're getting into fire season.  A regen while out in the fields checking fences is potentially disastrous.  The Forest Service tested DPF-equipped rigs, and the DPF outlet gets up to 1000*F during regen.  Major fire hazard.  If I lived in the city, I'd leave it, because it's nice to have no visible emissions.  But, I weigh the emissions from the truck against the potential emissions, property damage, risk to livestock, and risk to humans of a wildfire, and it's no contest.  The truck has plenty of grunt and I am quite happy with it, so the "tuner" would only be used to delete the DPF.  No power tunes.  The most I might do it test the "mild" setting for fuel economy.

Other mods: I am planning to do a BuckStop bumper + winch when funds allow.  And I'd like to add an LED utility light or two on the rear for backing up at night.  Then maybe some auxiliary long-range driving lights... I have to commute home in the dark in winter, and there are a lot of deer out here.

IMO this is what actually is occurring.  

Your comment about local EPA regs seems to imply that's the only reason you don't get such vehicles.....  Pretty sure Europe has some stringent exhaust emission requirements, yet that continent is swarming with these diesel powered vehicles.

I said it before with my flippant comment about the cost of fuel.... In USA fuel is so inexpensive that there's no market driven incentive for manufacturers to make available their diesel variants - they've probably concluded they wouldn't sell in sufficient numbers to make it worth their while.   In most of the rest of the world the equation is the inverse:  Fun though a big burbling petrol V8 is, they wouldn't be able to give away large capacity gas powered vehicles coz of the prohibitive running costs.

The diesel variants of the VW models are their best sellers...at least here in Seattle. I don't think our lack of diesels is related to consumer demand...we would buy them.

CARB diesel regs for soot are more stringent than EuroV proposed regs.

Also, EU synth diesel gets cetane ratings of over 65.  40 is a tandard in the USA and therefore....sootier.

That's the problem... EU regs, while stringent in their own ways, are *different* from the US regs.

It's just not cost-effective to build multiple versions of every engine certified for different regulatory environments.

Since gas is cheaper in the US and the diesel vehicle market smaller, the majority of regulatory testing and certification is done for those other markets.

It may change, slowly.  A huge chunk of VW's sales are diesel.  Over a quarter now, IIRC.  GM is now getting in on the act with the diesel Cruze.

Now if we could just get those sales to translate to diesel development for compact, midsize, and half-ton trucks.

In its form as used in Europe, it's Euro VI complaint.

The Fiat-made Chevy Cruze diesel engine is the same as the european model with the exception of urea injection for the exhaust.

This means a 4.5 gallon loss of trunk space for the Cruze to provide for the urea tank.  There are some minor upgrades to the motor to suit US style driving, namely fast-start glow plugs and an oil pan heater, but it is otherwise identical.

If they'd put in a CVT tranny instead of a regular auto it probably could get >50 mpg.

Not the only reason, but as stated before in this thread. The entry cost of bringing a new engine to the USA market AND the price(2k-3k option for the turbo diesel in the new jeep/ram i believe) of choosing that engine instead of the regular gas variant sorta entrenches the choice of gasoline engines here. So while the diesel get better MPGs than a typical gas V6 you need to put ALOT of miles to make that initial investment back( at least here)

Some quick math for a SR5 HiLux 4x4 DCAB Manual (The world tacoma styling..... [puke] , I like the NA styling better) I used $3.5 for regular gas and $3.8 for the oil burner stuff(avg around here)(numbers from the toyota.au site)

I4 Turbo Diesel
126kw/343Nm
8.3L/100km or 28.37mpg
Cost of fuel for 100k miles = $13,394

V6 Petrol (Probably same engine as over here)
175kw/343Nm
13.1L/100km or 17.96mpg
Cost of fuel for 100k miles = $19,487

So even if they charge extra for the diesel engine( < $6,093 for my example) you still make out on the plus side of the equation.

Sorry, DP. I didn't mean too, the thread sorta lends itself to discussing the regulators.

Also now, are diesels in the EU as clean(emission wise) as a standard petrol(watching too much Top Gear lately, damn Brits!) engine? As gas is a finite resource and so is the atmosphere.......just some food for thought.....

FYI as of July 1, 2012, if you own a diesel for non-commercial use under 10,000 lbs in Virginia, you can get a refund of the state tax on diesel (currently 20.2 c per gallon).

That makes the cost of fuel very competitive with gasoline.

Oh, and the VA legislature just passed a $65/year fee for registrations on gasoline hybrids.. lol.

<shrugs> meh, gimme a manual.

Easier to hyper-mile.  ;)

That... and we had a CVT in our 2011 Subaru Outback... the driving dynamics *sucked*.  A regular geared auto is nicer to drive, IMO.  Regardless, I would prefer a manual either way.

These guys used the 6-speed Passat TDI to get phenomenal mileage in a cross-country trip (77.99 mpg):
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47780 (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47780)
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/volkswagen-passat-tdir-clean-diesel-sets-world-record-for-fuel-economy-around-the-lower-48-us-states-at-7799-mpg-2013-06-24 (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/volkswagen-passat-tdir-clean-diesel-sets-world-record-for-fuel-economy-around-the-lower-48-us-states-at-7799-mpg-2013-06-24)

My antique diesel is cheap enough to run here. Diesel is currently 20 cents cheaper on average than RUG currently. When I switched from my well abused modified V8 T-Bird getting 10 MPG on super unleaded at a then all time high of $4.75, and my ne Merc was getting 25+mpg with diesel at under $4 a gal, it was a HUGE difference.  ;D

+1. I had a CVT Murano...supposedly one of the nicer CVT trannies. F'ing horrible to drive. I couldn't get rid of it fast enough.

I prefer a manual too, but you aren't going to sell many of them to the general public.  It took me a few months to even find my Golf TDI in manual.

The CVT type is a better design for people who want an automatic and gets better mileage.

CVT just ain't for everyone. And to get better milage takes learning to drive differently. When my auto tranny finally goes, I plan on converting to manual. I already have several parts for the conversion.

Any thoughts on the Grand Cherokee in diesel?  I like the idea, but it pushes the vehicle up to $45K or more.  Not something I can really afford.  You have to select the Limited or higher trim level and then it's around a $4k option as well as adding an equipment package.

As far as CVT - My wife drives a Mazda2 and it gets great mileage.  If it had a CVT, it would be even better and she would likely not realize the difference.  Small cars with CVT would be a great way to get around town for errands and such.

JM

This will be the sort of thing that keeps diesel vehicles from becoming commonplace in the US auto market.  The US market needs to get away from the concept of package based purchasing.

But apolitical yank bashing is still fair game, innit? I mean you lot don't even _play_ footy!

Go right for it and see.  [evil]

I'll join in with you.

 :D

Footy: I play footsie, just not with balls.  ;D

Oh, that's not true.

Lots of young schoolgirls here play footy, it's nearly as popular with them as jump-rope, I reckon.

Not many besides them, though.

 [cheeky]

Dodge Ram 1500 diesel, OK so it's not a small truck, but it is the first 1/2 ton diesel available in a long time. Would still love to have that Hilux diesel, sigh, maybe one day.

http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/ecodiesel/ (http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/ecodiesel/)

That's cool. No word on fuel economy yet though. Still, the pre-07 Cummins was capable of +27mpg, and have more torque. With Banks tuning is capable of better than 30, or more power depending on need. I just, so far, do not see this as a "Better" engine. It is just in a lighter truck.

I figure this is just the first of many diesels, I just don't see how they are going to meet their CAFE targets without seriously improving the MPG of light trucks, and the easiest way to improve the MPG by 20-30% is to go diesel. I'm really hoping this truck is a big success for Dodge as it will encourage Ford to dust off their F150 diesel that almost came out 5 years ago.

Very true, let's hope.

Maybe this will push GM into un-shelving the 4.5L Duramax they had designed and tested for 1/2-tons and Suburbans.

Once my wife and I have enough kids they don't all fit in the Subaru, I will be wanting a Duraburb... whether I can buy it or have to build it.

Not being all that familiar with the various domestic diesel engine producers, I was wondering if anyone is using International diesel engines since they seem to be very reliable in commercial applications.

Ford has been using combine/school bus engines since they first introduced their first diesel.

Ford did until 2010.  

They've since moved back in house.

with what?

Navistar (International) built the diesels that Ford used in their Super Duty trucks.

Do you mean the Power Stroke?

Yup . . .

Even the small Rangers we got here in Panama with the 2.5/3.8/3.0l engines, all were PowerStrokes . . . had to take the engine out of the vehicle to replace the injectors . ..  almost non rebuidable, the ones for the above mentioned engines

"Industry's only light duty diesel".

ROFL. The rest of the world has had small diesels for decades.

Always have...

Industry = America

WGAF about the rest of the world, right?

;D

Yeah.  I was answering Zaster's question.

 :)

As a Ford fan, I always wondered why they continued the Chrysler/Cummins deal.   ???

So what's the best domestic diesel engine: Duramax, Cummins, Power Stroke etc.?

Cummins

If Dodge would only use the Allison transmission....not a Dodge guy but agree with the engine choice

Yea. Banks can greatly fix most of the reliability problems with the dodge trans, but the parts are pricey. Figure @$2k to upgrade what dodge built, then a Power commander. Engine upgrades can also get pricey, but nothing runs like a Banks modded cummins. The Duramax is just not durable enough, and not as efficient. The powerstroke is a great engine, but noisy and not nearly as efficient.

The Duramax/Allison combination is tbe one to beat.  The Duramax when allowed to breathe is smooth gets good mileage and is quite freakin fast!

The Allison is very smooth and the shifts are remarkably intuitive.  Shift points mesh into higher gears under hard acceleration with no jarring.

Ive only towed a loaded dump trailer so far.  Looking forward to seeing how it pulls a Bobcat.

Which one?  There have been so many.........


 [evil]

in Europe, they have the Duratorq 2.2 and 3.0 TDCi engines in the Ford Ranger.  They are based on the Mazda W engine. 

In 2012, they put a particulate filter on the exhaust to comply with Euro IV emissions, which means they are essentially Tier 1 EPA legit (but not Tier 2 CARB legit)  The filter took 2 hp off the output.

In actual "combined" use (highway and city), they are seeing about 26.5mpg (imperial) which is about 22 US mpg.

Estimates:  >30 highway and 19 city (US)

http://gas2.org/2012/07/28/diesel-ranger-gets-driven-in-the-uk/ (http://gas2.org/2012/07/28/diesel-ranger-gets-driven-in-the-uk/)

Ford bring diesels to the US?  They say "Fah Cue"

http://gas2.org/2011/03/15/ford-exec-says-diesels-don%E2%80%99t-make-sense-for-america/ (http://gas2.org/2011/03/15/ford-exec-says-diesels-don%E2%80%99t-make-sense-for-america/)

Cummins is arguably the best US diesel engine builder.  Duramax is number two.  Ford got sick and tired of quality problems with the Navistar (International) engines, so they developed the 6.7 "Scorpion" motor in-house.  It's had some teething problems, but the biggest question mark is longevity... it was a completely new engine when it came out in the 2011 trucks.

I bought a Chevy with the Duramax engine and Allison transmission because myself and my extended family have all had problems with Chrysler automatic transmissions.

The Duramax has proven durable enough for my needs.  One hotshotter (professional RV tower) racked up over 750,000 miles on his... and the only hard part it ever needed, IIRC, was a starter.  Lots of guys on DieselPlace (GM diesel forum) with upwards of and over 200,000 on theirs.

Only common issues with the LML (2011-present) engine is the emissions crap... diesel particulate filter and urea injection.  Delete with aftermarket kit, and it seems to run just fine.  Gets better gas mileage, too.

Note that the Duramax motors are not designed in-house by GM only... they were co-developed by Isuzu.  If you've spent any time outside the US, you'll know that Isuzu knows what they're doing with diesels, as they've built many millions of them.

So yeah... in my opinion, the ranking of US diesel engine manufacturers is:
1. Cummins
2. DMAX
3. Ford

Transmissions are another story:
1. Allison

Ford and Chrysler automatics are a distant second and third... as far as which of those two is better, I couldn't tell you.

You could always do as Banks does: http://www.bankspower.com/dakota (http://www.bankspower.com/dakota) ;D

Isuzu sells a shit-ton of diesel NQR/NPR box trucks in the USA with their 5.2L I4.

Think about that -- a four banger pushing over five liters..  up to 175 hp, but torque out the wazoo.

Yup. I see Izuzu box trucks and tow vehicles all over the place. They are well renowned work horses. No small vehicles though. Shame.

I bet there are a lot of ppl watching the new Chevy Cruze diesel.  If it sells well and there aren't any issues with it, I bet there will be a few more.

EPA says it has a 46 mpg highway rating.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=33578 (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=33578)

The EPA for the 2005 VW TDI is 41 highway, but actual use shows about 48-50mpg highway.

Banks can toss me a diesel for my Dakota any day now.  I'm tired of 13MPG and only OK towing from a 4.7L gas V8.  I wanted the 318 or 360 but it wasn't available the year I ordered mine.  They are both better towing motors than the 4.7.  A small diesel would be even better.

JM

That is cool.  [thumbsup]

I think I'd have kept my Durango if it'd had a Cummins 5.9 and I had known what Banks offered for it...

As it is, the 2000 Durango with the 4.7L gasser got 14 mpg... on a good day.  I sold it to go shopping for a Suburban (my parents' 1996 3/4-ton 454 gets 14 mpg highway, my father-in-law's 1/2-ton gets 18).  Then midstream, my wife and I wound up with plans to move out to my in-laws 600 acres in south/central Washington.  Needed a farm & ranch truck.  Bought the 2011 Silverado 2500HD Duramax, 4x4, crew-cab short box.  It gets 16-17 mpg (empty), and 14 mpg when towing my dad's 6000-lb 25' travel trailer (over the Cascades, no less).

Now what I'd like to have is a small diesel to commute in.  Not sure a Jetta is the best option, as much as I love them.  In winter, we'll get 8-12" of snow at a time out here.  Been using the Subaru Outback, which seems to handle up to 9" of snow pretty well.  If I could get a diesel HiLux, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.


I'm another one watching this with interest.  Really curious to see what people get for real-world mileage, because like you said, the Jettas beat the EPA estimates with boring regularity.

You should see the diesel Subarus... with horizontal-4 diesel engines...

http://www.boxerdiesel.com/legacy_outback/en/index.html (http://www.boxerdiesel.com/legacy_outback/en/index.html)

I know.  If I could get a 6-speed manual 2.0D Outback with leather and moonroof, I'd be all over that like a fat kid on a cupcake.  Same amount of torque as the 3.6L flat-6 gasser we currently have, with half the fuel consumption.  With a mixing stick, it'd still be more fun than the 2.5i/CVT.

Maybe when the 3.6 wears out, I'll make a trip to Oz and visit a wrecking yard.  ;)  No emissions checks out where I am, so no problems there.  If I ever had to move back to a smog-checked city, I am positive I could find a tree-hugging Hood River local to buy it.

GM should definitely re tune and throw the cruze diesel in the new colorado.......or just use one of the other 3 turbo diesels they sell everywhere else. We poor americans with cheap gas and no diesels to exploit it..... [evil]

I'd love to try and retrofit that into my 05 Baja

they make it you just dont see it

this is the update over the old chev thai built colorado
which the new chev thai colorado has gone duramax
http://www.holden.com.au/cars/colorado (http://www.holden.com.au/cars/colorado)

isuzu has stuck with the 4jj1 motor
http://isuzuute.com.au/ (http://isuzuute.com.au/)

that Holden truck looks like the VW truck.

i like it.  needs a longer bed.

We had this conversation 14 pages ago...  ;)
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=52019.msg1065256#msg1065256 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=52019.msg1065256#msg1065256)

The Holden is only a Holden when sold in Australia.  In the rest of the world it's an all American Chevrolet  ;D.

I like it better than the VW.  But I like the global Ranger best of 'em all.

In case you've forgotten...
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=52019.msg1065059#msg1065059 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=52019.msg1065059#msg1065059)

Anyway to mate an Allison to a Cummings? 

Yes, there are kits available but pretty pricey >:(

GM actually, quote from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Corporation):
"General Motors produces cars and trucks in 37 countries, and sells and services the vehicles through the following brands: Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, Cadillac, Baojun, Holden, Isuzu, Jie Fang, Opel, Vauxhall, and Wuling."

Been reading about diesel swaps in Rovers and the Isuzu engines keep coming up, specifically the tdi that goes in the Trooper (Bighorn for you Aussies?). More and more tempting, especially if I can convert to biodiesel and get cheap oil from fast food chains, talk about a never-ending supply! [laugh]

Waste veggie oil is a commodity these days. Get in line. ;)

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/for/3922791029.html (http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/for/3922791029.html)

$2/gallon

I want that Holden Colorado.  I'll take mine in 4x4 Space Cab LTZ flavor with the manual transmission, please.  ;)  Admittedly, I'm not the biggest fan of the Equinox facia, but whatever.  A small truck with a 2.8L Isuzu/Duramax motor and a manual gearbox?  Sold.

Ya know... I wonder if that truck has the same forward chassis as the Equinox or the US-spec Colorado?  I'd be temped to buy the powertrain out of a wrecked one and ship it home.  Cost is not the object... it would just be cool.

I would take the Isuzu D-Max with the 3.0 Turbo Di engine in crew cab if it were available in Panama and not special order, this, puts it at the same price as the 4 dr/4x4 model and I don't need the extra doors . . .

http://www.copama.com.pa/ (http://www.copama.com.pa/)

But the D-Max looks like it's been smacked in the face with a wet Tuna....  is it's Holdevrolet cousin available in Panamania?

Yes . . . with a 2.5l Turbo Direct Injection 4 cyl . . . opt is the 3.0L Turbo Direct Injection[Denso  [puke] on both]

Other options would be the Frontier L4-718 or D4-1003 (http://www.nissan.com.pa/modelocarac/Especificacion.aspx?mod=12) or the Ford Ranger 3.2 Turbo Diesel (http://www.distribuidoradavidsa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=82&Itemid=198),

The five cylinder 3.2 Ford Ranger would be my first choice  [thumbsup]

Or... the same engine in the same vehicle.... but wrapped funky Madza style (if you like that kinda thing)...
(http://www.mazda.com.au/~/media/Mazda/Images/Media%20Gallery/Models/All%20New%20BT%2050/All-New%20Mazda%20BT-50_new%20images_8.ashx?w=766&h=431&bc=black&as=1)

NOPE, me no likes that fascia . . . [puke]

Funky indeed.  [puke]

Yeah... that's just as bad as the Holden's fascia, which came straight off the Equinox crossover.

The styling on the Isuzu D-Max may not be anything to write home about, but that's another small truck I'd gladly wheel around the countryside in.

I'm not so concerned about the front.

It's a truck.  It's a work vehicle.

All these air haulers have given trucks the wrong image.  It's not a glamor vehicle. It's something to haul stumps and loads of manure around in.

^^True but i don't want to grimace every time i walk out into the driveway. Trucks are pretty much the same silhouette over and over again so the designers can really only make their mark with the front.

I understand, but it just sounds so effete.  "Oh gawd, that truck is just sooooo ugly."  lol  it's a TRUCK.  You're driving an open box around!

I ran my peugeot 307 on 100% biodiesel for the first 40,000km of it's life, before bio got too hard to find. It's bloody good gear, better lubricity, lower exhause temps, burns off at lower temp in the particulate filter, cleans the crap out of the fuel system. All good.

Good luck finding waste vege oil though - the biodiesel producers have every litre of the stuff stitched up.

My MB LOVES biodiesel. Unfortunately the only local biodiesel supplier recently got their pumps shut down because the EPA was worried that the underground tanks might leak the non-toxic and biodegradable fuel into the ground which sits upon a 50 year old landfill. They were not worried about the other diesel fuels, or the RUG or various race fuels they sell. Just the Biodiesel.  ??? If someone can explain that to me, I would love to understand.  [roll]

Nah, me either. 

And yet... ?   ;D

[=]

Super dooty

LOL!

That doesn't mean I wouldn't use it!  I don't need a big truck like that, but hell, make me a deal on one and I'll take it!

Actually, I think that's my problem with a bunch of the "styling" on pickups today.  C'mon, guys... it's a box for hauling crap that's too big/dirty/heavy/whatever to fit in a car.  My ideal "truck" styling pretty much hit its peak in the 90's.  Then when Ford made that goofy soft car-styled F150 (starting in '97) the pickup became a suburban soccer-mom-mobile and it all went downhill from there.  Hence my dislike of the Holden and Mazda fascias... kinda the epitome of the air hauler.  I can just see a bunch of those running around the suburbs carrying absolutely zilch in the bed.

That's another reason I like the Silverado.  There are a few goofy styling cues, but it's the most "basic box" of the HD trucks.  That's all I wanted.  I use ours to haul motorcycles, firewood, cars, tractor implements, furniture, bags of seed, plants... anything and everything needed to manage and maintain the 600 acres we live on (and feed my motorcycle addiction).  When I lived closer to civilization, I didn't need a truck, so I didn't have one.  No need to "haul air".

wait Dan....let me get this straight for a moment....you use your truck as a .......gasp.....a truck?!?!?!


;)

seems to be a rare thing
I use my car as a truck more than most people use their trucks as trucks  [laugh]

Ditto!

Some news on the GM front (http://wot.motortrend.com/2015-chevrolet-coloradogmc-canyon-spied-hot-weather-testing-386029.html#axzz2ZEFzpTGG) These are pretty big for midsizes which makes them perfect for me! About the same size as my old 97' Chevy 1500 excab, ie perfect size for a pickup.


Pics or it didn't happen!

My taco....doing manly things.....
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/966902_10151681188055348_500700327_o.jpg)
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/882739_10151553742160348_1239679211_o.jpg)

Pics when I get home tonight.  I can't access my photobucket account from work... it's classified as "online storage" and hence, not allowed...  [roll]

Ever since you posted this, I've been flling in love with the idea of buying one.

+1 I signed up for their email updates.

+ 2...so far the closest to what I'm looking for  [thumbsup]

+3

I want that motor in a Wrangler. 

did you miss your chance?

http://www.mopar.com/jeep/wrangler-unlimited/2012/shop/336759/72/4021/ (http://www.mopar.com/jeep/wrangler-unlimited/2012/shop/336759/72/4021/)

Different engine.   [cheeky]  Regardless, pretty sure you could always but the CRD as a crate engine, just wouldn't be able to legally operate the vehicle on our roads if/when you installed it.

http://www.epa.gov/compliance/enforcement/air/documents/fuelwaivers/engswitch.pdf (http://www.epa.gov/compliance/enforcement/air/documents/fuelwaivers/engswitch.pdf)

If the new engine setup has the same or better emissions than a same year or newer model as the original configuration, it is not a problem. 

This is why you can put a TDI motor into a Jeep without any problem.  The resulting emissions are better than the original Jeep config.

I've been waiting for the Tacoma (Hilux) diesel to come to the US for many years now, but it seems to be a lost cause. My 2004 F150 has served me well, even though the mpg sucks, especially for a 6 cylinder, but it's paid off and has been very reliable. The only major repair being a leaking intake manifold which is a known issue for the V6.

When I saw the Dodge Eco diesel though I've had thoughts of trading in the old F150. I'll probably keep it for a couple more years and see how reviews for the Dodge diesel are before making my move.

I really hope Dodge did their home work on this and releases a reliable truck that gets exceptional mpg, if so, they will have a huge winner on their hands. This could be "THE" vehicle that gets diesels back in favor with the American public. If it gets close to 30mpg on the highway as rumored then it should sell like hot cakes.

If it is a sales success then we should see a flood of new diesel models popping up in the US within the next 3-4 years. I don't think a lot of the car manufacturers, especially the US ones that are truck heavy, can meet their future CAFE goals without going diesel on their trucks.

Anyway, who ever buys one first on this board has to post a thorough review ;D

I love the HP and the torque specs on the eco diesel.  The 8 speed trans with rotary shifter sounds a little gimmicky.

The rotary shifter is one of those stupid little things that should not make a bit of difference as it's all electronic now anyway, but some people are just resistant to change, myself included.

As promised:

(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii304/duc_fan/IMG_20130527_201729_261_secure.jpg) (http://s267.photobucket.com/user/duc_fan/media/IMG_20130527_201729_261_secure.jpg.html)

(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii304/duc_fan/Silverado/IMG_20130706_132103_510.jpg) (http://s267.photobucket.com/user/duc_fan/media/Silverado/IMG_20130706_132103_510.jpg.html)

You'll have to let me know if those show up.  I can't view photobucket links from work... so I'm having to hack it with my phone to try to get this posted.

First one is hauling the GTI project and the Cagiva home.  Pulled the rig into my 2400 sqft garage to unload out of the rain.  Next to the truck you can see the JD 1070.  Sorry, no pics of hauling that, but you can see I have a tractor and there are associated implements.  Next one I need to go pick up is a rear 3-pt grader blade... I broke the old one that came with the tractor when we bought it last year.  Would also like to get a box grader.  It's all only money...

Second pic is hauling my dad's 25-ft Nash.

We only put about 7500 miles a year on the truck.  It gets used to haul crap... or it sits.  If it sits for more than a week or two, I'll drive it empty to work just to keep it running and the battery charged.  Otherwise, all my wife and my errand running & commuting is done in more efficient vehicles (Subaru Outback, Saturn Sky, Cagiva Gran Canyon).

To be fair to the Silverado... with diesel prices the same as regular out here, and the fact it gets 16 mpg, it would be more economical to commute in than the Dodge Durango I used a couple years ago for winter commuting... 14mpg out of the 4.7L gas V8.  :P

Awesome. That's how it should be... 

Hey, can I get some acreage?   Lol.. man we're moving next Sumner.. I would love to have just 10 acres.. 600 is a dream...

you guys can have the acreage.

I'd gladly take the 2400 sqft garage with an attached house.

 [laugh]

Yup... I never want to leave.  It's a pull-through garage, as well.  10' and 8' doors on each end.  24' x 96' interior space.  The ceiling is slanted... goes from ~8' tall on the low side to ~14' on the high side.  There's just enough overhead clearance I should be able to squeeze in a Challenger CL10 two-post lift (I'll have to notch the ceiling, but it should fit).  Honestly, if I weren't hoarding cash after layoffs at work a couple months ago, I'd have already bought it.  Maybe I'll be able to relax a little in another couple months...

Anyway, it's part of a barn.  108' x 96' footprint.  3000+ sqft of living space, 2400 sqft garage, and the rest is a barn/gym/multipurpose room in the middle.

Not mine.  I'm not that wealthy, just an average engineer.  It belongs to my father-in-law.  We get to live here as groundskeepers and project managers.  We pay for the maintenance/upkeep, utility bills, and do most of the work.  In exchange, we get to live here for free.  It works out pretty well.  [thumbsup]  It was built as a family gathering/retreat house, so we get to host family and friends several times a year.  Great family, so it's not a burden.

The only downside is the commute is a bit long, and it's 5 miles of gravel road before you get to the paved highway.  I will not have a clean car as long as I live here.  It also means motorcycles are pretty much limited to dual-sports and track day or collectibles that get hauled out in a trailer.  It's a pretty small price to pay for the un-freaking-believable scenery, onsite shooting range, and mantastic garage.

Here's when it was under construction...
(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii304/duc_fan/Silverado/IMG_1523_small.jpg) (http://s267.photobucket.com/user/duc_fan/media/Silverado/IMG_1523_small.jpg.html)

Anyway... sorry to threadjack.  ;)  You can probably understand why I'd LOVE to have a small diesel pickup.  Something with enough ground clearance to go have some fun around the farm, can get through deep snow, doesn't matter if it's dirty, and economical enough to commute in.

+2

Nice mountian in the background! What part of the Country is that? BTW I love the red chevy!(We're still on topic  ;) )

want my 2100 sq ft one?
it needs a "little" TLC  [cheeky]

South/central Washington.  That's Mt. Adams.  On a clear day, from a high point on the land, you can see Mt Hood, Mt Adams, and Mt Rainier (and some smaller snow-capped jagged peaks in the central WA Cascades).

Thanks, I like the red Chevy, too. ;)

Been keeping my eyes open for news regarding diesel trucks being available in the US, and saw that Ford has confirmed it has NO plans to offer a diesel F150. Meanwhile Cummins is working on a 4 cylinder 2.8L diesel with 385 ft/lb torque and 210hp for the 2015 Nissan Titan.

That should go into the Nissan Frontier.  The Titan needs a 3.5L class V6 diesel.

Not sure how I missed this earlier, looks like there is hope yet for us diesel lovers.

"Chevrolet recently confirmed that a diesel variant will arrive in a non heavy duty pickup in the near future. It will most likely be a Colorado model, although a diesel-powered Silverado isn’t out of the question. The Chevrolet Colorado is offered with diesel engines in other markets outside the U.S"

If that's an Isuzu engine in a Colorado, I'd take one.  I may be a Chevy guy, but I still don't trust GM to build their own diesels.

Says they are Duramax engines. There should be some reliability history on these engines, as they've been selling these diesel Colorados everywhere except the US for the last couple of years.

only since late last year has the thai built colorado had the duramax

this was when the new shape was introduced

the old model and the current isuzu dmax has the isuzu motor

sadly i dont think you will see the isuzu in the USA ?

it gave me great pleasure seeing a mate buy the isuzu over the colorado
after the crap i had with holden service

They already announced they would use the 2.8L Duramax in the Cadillac...

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2012/01/breaking-cadillac-ats-to-offer-diesel-engine/ (http://gmauthority.com/blog/2012/01/breaking-cadillac-ats-to-offer-diesel-engine/)

Also, I wonder how much of the push into GM with smaller engines is motivated by a desire not to lose Isuzu as a partner..

http://www.automotiveworld.com/analysis/80096-us-isuzu-seeks-review-of-dmax-jv-with-gm/ (http://www.automotiveworld.com/analysis/80096-us-isuzu-seeks-review-of-dmax-jv-with-gm/)

Seems odd for Cummins to put a motor in a Nissan when they supply the motors for Dodge already. A diesel Titan and Ram 1500 would be direct competitors. More choices though.  [thumbsup]

Even weirder since Nissan makes their own diesel and these engines pass EU and Swiss specs . . .

Chicken tax.

Are the smaller Duramax engines designed or co-designed by Isuzu?  That'd work as well for me as a straight-up Isuzu diesel.  I just wouldn't trust a 100% in-house GM-designed diesel.  Not until it had many years and millions of miles under its belt.

Similarly, I'm not ready to go run out and buy a Cruze diesel... not until that motor has more real-world use, particularly in the US (I have heard US-spec diesel is not as high quality as Euro spec diesel fuel).

Pump diesel in the US is 40-45 cetane.  In Europe, you see 55-65 commonly.  I think the minimum there is 50 cetane.  There is a LOT of synth-diesel there as well.  Much cleaner.

very unlikely

holden (GM) sold the rodeo ute for prob close to 30 years which was an isuzu product until the colorado came along

this came about as isuzu and holden had a disagreement and isuzu owned the rodeo name


so holden/gm made their ute and isuzu made basically the same and holden used the isuzu motor

this last change has split them both and although both vehicles are similar they use their own motors now

FWIW i bought my colorado with the isuzu motor for 2 simple facts , timing chain over belt and isuzu makes trucks and uses the 4jj1 motor in their trucks



namely http://www.isuzucv.com/businessuses/utility (http://www.isuzucv.com/businessuses/utility)

with a rated durability that 90% of the motors will get 310,000 miles before rebuild

re the cruze , gf had a diesel one and it was ok , but it does have a dpf which no one wants

DPFs suck.  :P  I have just been too lazy to order the delete kit or my truck and get it installed... but I really need to.  Not only too lazy, but I don't want to go blowing out the savings account.  The delete hardware and programmer will run me between $1500 and $2000.  But... it results in improved fuel economy, less crap to go wrong, and MUCH lower fire danger.  Right now we've had 2 wildwires within 10 miles of our place in the past 2 weeks, and there's a 1200 acre one burning ~23 miles northeast of us (big plume of smoke off that one visible from our house yesterday... I'll have to post pics when I get home... work blocking photobucket and all that).  I do not dare take the truck out in the fields right now.

This was tested by the USFS... DPFs are a very real wildland fire danger:
http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdf/08511816.pdf (http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdf/08511816.pdf)

Are there delete kits for the smaller vehicles, like VWs and the Cruze diesel?

Ban the DPF!  [evil]

Interesting report Duc_fan. I was aware of the problem, but did not know about that study.

not sure at all , not something i have looked at

but i agree they are a pain the arse

nissan have a ute equivelent to the colorado model being navara d40 in australia and bad reports of high fuel consumption
due to dpf burnoff

yup, never got around to doing it on my TDI and now that I'm past the halfway point of how long I'll own the car, I'm not sure I will

What year?  Mine has no filter.

2011 and 143k on it now

Ah.   Mine is a 2005 with 220k.  Pd motor.  Best of the lot...:-)

And before the gubbernators lowered compression ratio requirement.

Mine is an '91 278k, if doesn't have one either [laugh] or a turbo :'(

I've heard mixed reviews on the Pumpe-Düse engines.  You like yours?  Particular reasons?  It was introduced in 2004, correct?  Every now and again I go shopping for a used Mk4 Golf TDI to turn into a high-efficiency GTI knockoff (GTD or GTDI).  When your commute is 33 miles each way, highway fuel economy becomes a greater priority.  I just haven't been able to justify the 10-15k it would cost to get into one.  Would take around just under 10 years for it to pay for itself (at current prices locally).  If I could get a decent amount out of my existing (Mk2) GTI and trackbike, I could reduce the payoff period a bit.  Ultimately, we just don't have the cash right this second, and taking out a loan for something with a ten-year payoff period does not make economic sense.  I'd be better off investing in a homebrew biodiesel setup and commuting in the Silverado... yeah, it'd be air hauling, but it'd be CHEAP air hauling.  ;)  If I had my production cost down to $1.50 a gallon, driving the truck would be cheaper than riding the Cagiva.  That doesn't include lower maintenance costs... longer oil change intervals (at about the same price per oil change), less spent on tires, no chain, cost of replacement gear, etc.  I just realised that I dropped $600 on a helmet... that needs replaced every 5 years.  That's $120/year for helmet use.  This stuff adds up quick!

Very good man. lol

<jack> Details on the MkII?</jack>

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=52019.msg1186901#msg1186901 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=52019.msg1186901#msg1186901)

I don't recall all the details Dan told me about the MK ii back when he 1st joined the Cagiva Gran Canyon list and I put 2 & 2 together as to whom he was and we chatted about the car back then IIRC...I'll have to go dig back in my Emails.

That's just a picture!   [cheeky]

Pd engines are finicky with oil and some have cam lobe issues.  Other than that they get the best overall mileage, have the highest hp, and are highly tuneable.  The hybrid injectors are the key.  They are cam activated but electronic controlled.  So you can put an aftermarket control that increases or decreases pulse interval of the injectors.  The body is the same as all other mkiv models. 

My garage would be under the house...Batman style...

Not a truck, but I did happen across a Jeep Liberty diesel at a local consignment lot.  Thoughts on these?

JM

Piece of shit.

Care to elaborate?

JM

Epic piece of shit you shouldn't buy.

Lot of EGR problems.
So many power window failures you'd think you were in a VW.
For those of you who are VW fans, there's something wrong with you.
Lot of torque converter issues-this may have turned into a warranty item.
Weak suspension with shitty ground clearance.
Tiny amount of interior space.
They required a very specific synthetic oil that if not used will shorten the engine life considerably (good luck verifying what someone put in it).

Saw a Double Cab Taco with a cummings turbo diesel pass me on I495 today....do want.

Really?  Out of our 6 VWs, 0 power window failures.

he's a rocket scientist, they're not too bright

no issues here either  [thumbsup]

Plenty of VW experience here and haven't had any power window failures.  Had one failure on my Volvo and one on my Ford truck though...

The torque converter was subject to a recall and fixed.  It wasn't that much of a big deal really.  It did trash some transmissions, but those were replaced too.

Big people always complain about the interior space in cars.

All modern diesels require spec oil.  VWs, MB, Audi, BMW...

not really a laundry list to make it a "piece of shit" now is it?

:-)

Sorry you're a runt. Please to explain the egr issues while you're counterpointing.

You had a small diesel truck and sold it. Why do you want another?

I'm 6'1"

The EGR issue?  It's the same issue with all vehicles and some deal with it better than others.  The correct solution is to remove it. 

it's a bs way to reduce NOx.  diesels have a high NOx output and they used a gas engine EGR design.

I sold it because a tree fell on it and it was 30+ years old.  I want another because I like diesels.

LOL... lots still going on in here!

I've had two VWs... one with power windows ('98 GTI VR6), and one without (the MkII).  I'll let you guess which one DIDN'T have a power window failure.  ;)  Yes, I still love VWs.  Note I have never claimed there isn't something wrong with me.

To be fair to the VeeDubs, my parents have two MkVs (2010) and a 1995 Audi.  One of my brothers has a 2008 or 2009 Audi A4.  None of them have had power window problems.

My personal opinion?  It's the VWs that live outside.  At least that's been my experience.  They like coming home to a garage.  My '98 gave me no problems as long as it came home to a garage.  The 6 months it lived outside?  It let me know it wasn't feeling appreciated.  YMMV.

For more on the MkII: It's a 1986 GTI 1.8 8v.  5-speed, manual windows, manual sunroof, manual steering, manual seats... the only "power" item on the car is the vacuum-assist brakes.  The electrical system runs the starter, the lights, the ignition system, and the radio.  Pretty soon it won't even have the radio. [evil]  It's in the middle of a major overhaul.  I am removing (but keeping & storing) the Bosch CIS-E fueling system.  I am installing a set of Weber 40DCOEs (sidedrafts).  It is getting a transmission rebuild, a light flywheel, 16v clutch pressure plate, Peloquin diff, and new axles.  Shift linkage is being upgraded with USRT spherical-bearing kit.  Rear axle is getting new bushes and a Black Forest "Corse" rear anti-roll bar (the one that goes inside the torsion beam).  Suspension is being upgraded from Neuspeed springs over Tokico shocks to Koni coilovers (that I robbed off the '98 GTI before I sold it).  Will also install the Autotech upper strut-tower brace I bought on closeout years ago.  Planning to remove the rear seat (again, will be kept and stored), install rear cage with harness belt anchors.  Battery relo to middle of car (former rear seat pan).  It already has factory Recaro front seats, a MkIII GTI "Driver Edition" golf ball gear knob (also stolen from the GTI VR6), short shift kit, Autotech front anti-roll bar, and poly bushings.  Brakes were completely gone through a few years ago (with drilled rotors, stainless lines, new calipers), with exception of master cylinder and vacuum booster... those are on the list.  Has a complete custom exhaust: late MkII dual-outlet manifold and downpipe, cat test pipe, custom center resonator, Techtonics crossover/axle pipe, and Magnaflow muffler.  There's more, but I've had it for 14 years or more... can't remember everything that's been done to it.  I do already have most of the parts for the upcoming work.  Webers, shift linkage, bushings, anti-roll bar, strut brace, Konis... still need to purchase transmission parts and rear cage.

It doesn't look like much now.  See the pic earlier in this thread... that's it sitting on the trailer behind the Silverado.  Cosmetics have yet to be tackled.  I've just fixed/sealed some of the little rust areas, and tore off the peeling clearcoat on the roof.  Right now, cosmetically, it's more of a "preservation" project than a restoration project.  Not sure what direction I'll go... clean and shiny fresh Tornado Red paint... or turn it into a grey-primer rally car.

Sorry for the threadjack.  It's easy to get distracted and start talkin' VeeDubs...  ;D

Good to know.  [thumbsup]  I will add those to my shopping.  Any particular gotchas when buying used?

You need to talk to Ted.  I'll ping him to this thread...

Ok, so I have one negative opinion and one somewhat defending opinion on the Liberty.  I much prefer diesels so long as they good fuel economy.  Despite diesel being more expensive, most get good enough MPG that it is worth more at the pump for the MPG.

Window motors - I can fix myself, did so on my Taurus.  EGR?  Maybe.  Torque coverter - I can ask for documentation.  Spec oil?  Even my wife's gas Mazda2 requires 0-20 synthetic.  I'm looking for common gross failures.  All an internet search came up with was some kind of injector fitting that caused stalling and occasionally fires.  That was fixed with a replacement part, which I can check on.  I would like some FHE from some owners.

JM

Can you work on it? They aren't common.

I wasn't the owner, but a friend of mine had a gas Liberty.  Biggest gripe was a lack of cargo space behind the rearmost seat.  He had some niggling electrical troubles that sent it to the dealer a few times, but no major showstoppers.

Sorry, no actual experience with the Liberty diesel.  Kinda curious myself, because every now and again I go shopping for used ones.  They're rare.

MkIIs are impossible to kill. They prefer the death by a thousand cuts, but even then unless the frame is rusted through you can fix them for a few hundred bucks from almost any condition.

The MkII is the ideal VW. They figured out rust proofing to a reasonable degree, a huge leap from the MkI (which was followed up with an almost equal step backward with the MkIII when they thought they figured out how to do it cheap - spoiler alert: they didn't). It's hundreds of pounds lighter than a MkIII, infinitely less complex than a MkIV and anything that came after, and is arguably the best looking generation. The motor options are endless with nearly bolt-in ease in some cases, and they're absolutely practical workhorses.

Mine makes ~250 whp. It's fun. Way fun.

(http://i.imgur.com/djxA0.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/vRvJB.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/gekQi.jpg)

That's not a truck and it ain't even DIESEL!

But it is a very thorough thread jack.   :D

Holy crap, that is a clean MkII.

Definitely worth the threadjack.  [thumbsup]

To add some oil-burning content: I've long wanted to stuff a 1.9 TDI motor in my MkII.  Not sure how to make the electrics work, though.  A tuned TDI mill making over 200 ft-lbs at the wheels, in a 2400-lb car, would be an absolute hoot.

I learned that the hard way.  [laugh]  Loved the motor in my MkIII GTI VR6... most everything else sucked to varying degrees.  Okay, the leather seats were really nice.  And I stole the Driver's Edition shift knob out of it for my MkII.  Otherwise... power window regulators were quirky, the power sunroof started acting funny, the ABS was never great, the traction control sucked in snow/ice (and couldn't be turned off), the shifter was like rowing a boat, the exterior plastic trim required never-ending attention and maintenance to keep it from falling off, it leaked, the vinyl on the door cards started peeling, etc, etc.

It's one redeeming quality was the sound that VR6 made when you wound it through the rev range. That sure was sweet.

In somewhat related news . . .

Ford goes the CNG route for the F-150 in 2014.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/31/2014-ford-f-150-cng-revealed/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/31/2014-ford-f-150-cng-revealed/)

CNG is also cool.  Performance is about the same as gasoline and it's a much cheaper fuel than gas..

Diesel is just superior in every way.. :-)

EDIT:

WAIT???  The CNG option takes up 1/3rd of the truck bed??? WTF??

USELESS

(http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/620x412/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/07/2014-ford-f-150-cng-lpg-equipped-008.jpg)

I'd paint that CNG tank like a bomb with a radiation or biohazard sign!  [evil]

They're working to incorporate CNG for aviation use as well:
http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2013/July/26/First-airplane-powered-by-Compressed-Natural-Gas.aspx (http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2013/July/26/First-airplane-powered-by-Compressed-Natural-Gas.aspx)

Again, heft and bulk are the two big problems.  They're even more critical on an airplane than in a pickup.

I'm surprised Ford didn't go with multiple smaller tanks under the cab and/or under the bed.  Existing CNG and propane retrofits frequently go this route.  Especially if the traditional fuel tank space is unoccupied... is it a dual-fuel truck?  I know you can order a dual-fuel Chevy or GMC with the 6.0L Vortec V8 that burns gas or CNG.

Reminds me... I need to check the price of bulk propane delivered to our home.  We have a propane backup generator.  I'm wondering if it'd be economical to add propane injection to the Duramax and fill 'er up at home from the home tank... which we'd just have refilled more often.  The guy who installed the propane tank for the generator at my father-in-law's house does exactly that.

An upshot of running propane: I could delete the DPF and still have clean exhaust.

I have read of Duramax getting upwards of +50MPG using CNG or propane injection.

Where?

That would make me want one even more!

+1

Diesel performance magazine(I think). There was an article on a diesel truck competition where pulling power, speed as well as efficiency were all judged. I'll look for the mag and see if I can scan it. Can't find it now, but you can probably get more info online. Of course, the MPG was the diesel alone, you would have to figure the cost of the gas inclusively to get get real world efficiency.

Its a truck.  If 1/3rd of the bed is unusable then its worthless.

 The mpg comparison with carry volume as a variable.  everything wins over cng with that turd in the bed.

Actually, CNG has a notable performance advantage when it the engine is built to take advantage of the higher octane, lower particulate pollution and an advatage in carbon foot print.   CNG failed last time in NYC due to fuel infrastructure.  No fuel is good if not reasonably easy to find.  Cruising range and reduced cargo capacity because of the tank are problematic, though the last CNG Crown Vic police cars weren't bad.  Ford  designed dedicated tanks for them that provided enough cruising range for a shift and some with decent trunk space.  Between lack of fuel infrastructure and diesel torque I would stick with diesel at this point.   

For livery and police vehicles, cng should do just fine, but for a truck where torque is a key feature for ooad hauling....diesel all the way

Although that new purpose built police car?  Diesel.

Yes, true, if using a gasoline engine.  CNG conversion running 20% diesel is quite impressive.  It was done on some NYC garbage trucks.  Yes, I have seen the results, though no dyno or racetrack results.  This is a kit, http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/0905dp_natruell_cng_conversion_kit/viewall.html (http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/0905dp_natruell_cng_conversion_kit/viewall.html)  Imagine something engineered from scratch.  The fact that you coulnd't get from coast to coast wit a CNG powered vehicle  is still a problem though.  You would need LPG to do make that voyage.  http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/natural_gas_locations.html (http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/natural_gas_locations.html)

Thats pretty slick but for the loss of cargo space.  If someone designed a purpose built one for dual fuel it might be worth it.

The extra $85-9500 for install of the aftermarket CNG kit is what makes it unattractive to me. 

Yowsers... Yeah, I wouldn't drop north of $8 grand on such a kit, at least not as a supplemental fuel on my diesel.  Diesel engines don't run so well on straight CNG or propane... in a compression-ignition engine, it's better as a booster.  It substitutes for some of the diesel fuel, and helps the diesel that is used burn more thoroughly, resulting in cleaner exhaust.

Like others have said, that 50+ mpg figure is the diesel fuel economy... you're burning some quantity of CNG or propane along with that, so you gotta factor that cost into the equation.

The propane add-on kits for the Duramax are a lot cheaper than $8500 bucks.  You can get the regulator setup for $300-$550, then you need tanks and hose.  If you wanna go cheap, just mount a couple of 10-gallon RV tanks in the bed.  On the Duramax forum earlier this year, there was a user selling a complete kit with a 10-gallon in-bed tank for $600.  For more $$$, you can put a motor-vehicle tank under the bed along the frame.  IIRC, propane is lower BTU per unit of fuel than CNG, but users have reported diesel mileage in the high 20's to low 30's.  Where things get expensive is using a DOT-approved motor vehicle CNG tank mounted under the vehicle.  Anyway... you can do propane quite a bit cheaper.  The question is whether it's worth it.  I have yet to see actual total cost/mile calculations done.

Maybe if I get a bonus next year my wife will let me drop a grand and do this as an "experiment".  ;)  If we can push the diesel mileage up to 30 or so and decrease our total cost/mile enough, I may drive the Silverado to the office more often.  It would also be nice to have less soot in the exhaust.  I don't like stinking up my garage.  The tractor is bad enough.  :P

Speaking of reducing cost/mile... I still gotta try making biodiesel with the little home-brew test kit I bought.  If I can find a used oil source out here in the sticks, I could have very cheap fuel for the truck.

Yes, the hot set up is 20% diesel, not the full conversion.  No, I do not suggest anyone does the conversion on their truck.  I'm just saying CNG for a truck in the future can be viable, particularly if there was a viable infrastructure for getting fuel and OEM trucks with reasonable fuel capacity and sufficient cargo space at a reasonable cost.  NYC was an example of how not to do this.  One, yes one fueling station in the whole Bronx.

Remember, if you try making biodiesel, heat is your friend.  Some of the literature says the reaction will work in the 70 to 80 F range but North of 100 is definitely better.  Also check the pH of your rinse water to determine if it actually has the capacity to reduce the pH of the residual NaOH in the mix.  A guy asked me to help him get a system going, but his rinse water already had a pH of 9 so rinsing with it to get the mix down to 7 wasn't going to work. They were rinsing for days and couldn't understand why the pH wouldn't come down.  Also the polypropylene tanks he was trying to use couldn't handle the heat that the reaction should occur at.  He couldn't understand either of those concepts so it never got off the ground.  He was trying to produce biodiesel for his septic pumping service trucks.  He had great sources for waste oil and the equipment to handle it in bulk - would have been nice to get it up and running.  I really wanted to try it in my Jeep Liberty Diesel - also interested to see if it would work in my fuel oil furnace. 

Looks like Nissan is officially joining Dodge in offering a 1/2 ton diesel. I'm a bit surprised it is a 5L V8 though

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-20/nissan-to-offer-cummins-diesel-engine-for-titan-pickup.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-20/nissan-to-offer-cummins-diesel-engine-for-titan-pickup.html)

That is interesting.

My understanding that they were previously working with CAT, who is now shopping that motor around.

However, I'm not sure how that is going to make much financial sense.  Through July, only 10,020 Titans have been retailed this year.  By comparison, over 60K F-Series, 58K Silverado/Sierra, 31K Ram P/U and 9,820 Tundra were sold last month alone!.

The titan was supposed to die and a new version based on the new ram truck was in the works right before the recession.  Due to Chrysler's finances, Nissan pulled out of the partnership. 

Makes sense that they are interested again.

mitt

I still don't see how that pencils from a volume standpoint.  Unless they are getting one heck of a sweetheart deal from Cummins.

I've been keeping my eye on this development. The Mercedes ML 250 (4 Cyl twin turbo diesel)
Coming to the US next year then not coming to US but continuing to drive around in Europe.

One article speculates that it might undercut the current V6 offered in the ML.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/mercedes-benz/m-class/road-test/250-driven (http://www.topgear.com/uk/mercedes-benz/m-class/road-test/250-driven)

Maybe they're thinking that no one else offers a 1/2 ton diesel, so this is their chance to jump on an untapped market and get more people into a Nissan. Sounds like Dodge will also be offering one in 2014, but those will be your 2 choices.

I've had Nissan's for a long time, and love them...except for the gas mileage. If they introduce a 1/2 ton diesel I will definitely check it out along side the Dodge.  [thumbsup]

Exactly my issue with the Frontier.  They could do better.  That V6 they use in EVERYTHING is a crappy gas guzzler.

Ya...great engine from a durability standpoint, but not for gas mileage. My old '94 Chevy 1/2 ton 4x4 with a 350 and a 5" lift got as good of mileage as my new Frontier!

I don't know what it is.  THey've used that six on so many cars and trucks and they all get CRAP gas mileage compared to other V6s in the size range (3-3.5L)

That has been in the Frontier, Xterra and the Z series cars.  For the most part, the difference was the cam and programming of the ECU.  Not very different from the early 80s with the L28 from the Z series was used with timing and cam tweaks for the pickup.

JM

Exactly.  They even put it in the Infinitis.. The G35 (which I love) has it, and the same crappy MPG.. but what a beautiful car.

Here we go, Chevy Colorado and Canyon to get 4 cylinder diesel  ;D

http://gas2.org/2013/08/29/new-chevy-colorado-gmc-canyon-to-get-4-cylinder-diesel/ (http://gas2.org/2013/08/29/new-chevy-colorado-gmc-canyon-to-get-4-cylinder-diesel/)

If they use the 2.8L duramax, they wil pwn the small - mid truck market.

Ford wont bring the international Ranger to the US.  I might be shopping a chevy truck in 2014...

No doubt J5 will be along soon to confirm which motor is in the new Colorado.....  I'm so confused by the Isuzu model sharing... engine not sharing business.... IIRC the Dmax doesn't get the Duramax engine and the not Dmax does  :-\

J5 ?

yes the new colorado has the duramax

dmax has the isuzu 4jj1 motor

Crap, i might have to trade in my Tacoma  next year......we shall see what GM does with the price/options/looks of these...... [popcorn]

On a side note i got 25mpg on my taco last week(I4 auto,pretty much all highway)

Damn shame we can't get the diesel Taco over here.

+1


I'd be interested in the Colorado/Canyon as a commuter, but I'll have to do the math again.  My guess is at 30mpg it won't pay off soon enough.  A minitruck can't replace the 2500HD on the farm, and we need the seating of the Subaru... so this would be an "in addition to", not an "instead of" for myself and my wife.  :-\  This same issue has put a damper on other diesel options like the Jetta and Golf.  Diesel Jetta Sportwagen, while cool, doesn't have AWD or 9" of ground clearance.  Since we get 8-12" of snow at a time in winter, I want to keep at least two vehicles with decent ground clearance (always have backups... especially when you live in the middle of nowhere).

Oh well... since I completed some --*ahem* certain mods-- to the Silverado a couple weeks ago, it now gets 19 mpg.  ;D  Between that and the Subaru's 25+ mpg, we're not too horribly bad off.

I think getting a small diesel commuter will make more sense once we have a third kid (none now, 4 planned).  At that time, we'd have to upgrade from the Scooby-doo to a Tahoe/Suburban... so then I will want to have a much more efficient commuter vehicle, and the Subaru will probably go down the road.  Hopefully by then there will be more small diesel options.

With the 2.8L Duramax model and a long bed and crew cab, you can approximate much of the Silverado's utility, but not sheer payload of course.  Add 4wd and you've got plenty of options.

With any truck, you're not going to seat 6 ppl easily, esp not with child seats. 

I wonder what the 30 mpg estimate for the diesel Colorado is based on?  which engine?  probalby not the bigger one.

Now I'm curious and anxious...

Mostly about the Dodge 1/2 ton and the Nissan.  We'll see how those 2 fare.  

I read the article referenced here: http://gas2.org/2011/03/15/ford-exec-says-diesels-don%E2%80%99t-make-sense-for-america/ (http://gas2.org/2011/03/15/ford-exec-says-diesels-don%E2%80%99t-make-sense-for-america/) about Ford not bringing diesels to America.  I have to disagree but that's just me.

Perhaps if more diesels were on the American roads, it would bring down fuel costs....  But, that's just my ramblings.

This is probably old news to some of you, but I just looked at Chevy's website for the first time in a while... the Cruze diesel is only available as an auto.  >:(

If I was in the market today, that killed it for me.  Not gonna buy another slushbox.  We already have three, and they're barely tolerable.  Can't wait to get my GTI project back on the road.  3-pedal is where it's at, both for fun and fuel economy.

its funny they do that

down here when the cruze came out it came as petrol and diesel

the base model cd
high level cdx

the gf wanted auto and you couldnt get the cdx in auto diesel
only the cd you could get in diesel and pick an auto as an option

Allegedly, Toyota could use the same engine as Nissan in the Tundra: http://www.autoblog.com/2013/09/02/toyota-tundra-cummins-diesel-engine/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2013/09/02/toyota-tundra-cummins-diesel-engine/)

I was told we were in negotiations with CAT.

Who knows.

Why not the KD or VD Series? I did like the L series and HD/HZ series engines . . .the KZ was 'ok' . . .

Better question; why not put one in the Taco?

Calling Randimus to the Pink courtesy phone, calling Randimus to the Pink courtesy phone, please pick up any pink courtesy phone to answer your call!



D;

If I were calling the shots, that would have happened about 5-10 years ago.

Would have been a logical first step in getting our dealers ready for a diesel.

The truck and engine is the easy part.

Getting our dealers ready to service a diesel is the hard part. 

Since we've not had a diesel in our lineup since the early 80s, most of our stores are not equipped to handle such repairs.

But I digress.

So, no hand tools for diesels? Not looking to start an argument or anything, but, if that were the case, the shade tree shops would not be able to take out or re-install the pumps and injectors . ..  after that, some call me  ;D

Diagnostics upgrade is just that, a download, maybe some new cables, you don't want anyone loosening a fitting on a CRi diesel with preasure in it :o . . . Most tests are done via OBD plug  . . .

With increased demand it would bring prices up but production would lower it medium term.  Diesel is easier to make and biodiesel blends are true "green" fuels with built in socalled carbon offsets.

Unless one of our dealerships is partnered with a Ford, GM or Ram franchise, the likelihood of them having a technician capable of working on a diesel is low.

I don't believe we even have many within our own organization to train technician how to diagnose & repair diesels.

Having a diesel certified technician at each selling dealership would be a requirement.  Tools would be as well, but we would automatically ship those to the dealers through our tool vendor.

Need one? ;D

Yep... tools are one thing, knowing how to use them is something else entirely.  Check out the Duramax forums for horror stories about dealers with clueless techs.  There are some great dealers & techs, but then there are some terrible ones.

At some of our dealers that have domestic franchises, their $30+/FRH diesel technicians are being lured away by the oil field or mining operators for even greater pay.

$30/hr?!?!?!?!?!?! . . . . where do I sign? :o

most I have made in my life is $22.50 and that was overtime pay for working on a holiday !!!!

You're in the wrong line of work. Low paid developers (programmers) that become contractors get $40/hr.

coñooooooooo . . . I am averaging $9.35/hr now . . . not bad for Panama, but . . .

I wouldn't roll out of bed for that.  :P

Nevertheless, I still aint gonna pay you $50.

funy you  . . .

Your $9:35 is probably the same as $22:00 an hour where Dave lives. He would have to pay the babysitter $9.00 so yea for that money it would make more sense to stay home.

Hard to compare numbers... the real question is purchasing power.

Yeah... around here, $9-and-change per hour at 40 hours per week is barely enough to keep a roof over your head and food on the table... and I doubt it would cover transportation, raising kids, etc.

When I worked at the auto parts store while I was in college, back in '04 I was making just shy of $12/hr.  But again... purchasing power.  That was in Portland, and the $3k-$5k I'd earn in summer was barely enough to cover travel and incidental expenses while I was away at college.  I also had a job on campus to cover eating out and movies and whatnot... but that paid federal minimum (which was 5 and change per hour).  It was just enough each week to buy me a meal out with friends, a beer or two, and a movie ticket (at the wonderfully low student rate).

If my wife and I ever wind up in the Philippines, we'd probably be able to maintain an equivalent lifestyle on half our current income (or less).

Which brings me back to small diesels... living in the Philippines, I'd definitely have a HiLux or Fortuner diesel.  Diesel is less expensive than gasoline (and gasoline prices there run about the same as Oregon), and the HiLux and Fortuner are relatively affordable vehicles.  Import taxes in the Philippines are crazy, so you're MUCH better off getting something made in SE Asia (IIRC, the HiLux and Fortuner are made in Thailand and/or Indonesia?).

Still scheming of a way to import a HiLux diesel engine, manual transmission, and associated electronics to the US-of-A.  I'd drop it in a mid-2000's Tacoma.  Out here there is no inspection, so nobody would care.  Wish my grandfather was still around... he had the fab skills to do such swaps with ease.  It'd probably take me a while to get it built correctly.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=161096250531 (http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=161096250531)

Youre welcome

Cool.  [thumbsup]

Helluva lot cheaper than I expected.

Too bad that one is a slushbox, though.

Will have to do some shopping domestically to see if there are more of these...

About 30 on ebay right now.  Stick, auto, 2wd,4wd

Huh... I dug through there earlier, it said there were less than 20 Toyota diesels.  Only 4x4 setups I found were autos.  All the sticks were 2WD.

Regardless, it's not like I have the cash to pull the trigger today.  But now we know that option is out there.  ;)  If/when the time is right, I'll still price out getting a complete setup out of a wrecker in the Philippines... having family there I may be able to acquire the setup a bit cheaper.  Wifey is gonna make me finish and probably sell the GTI first... so we're looking at late next year at the earliest that I could start such a project.

Hmmm...

thats because thats old old old 2.4L

you want a 2005  onwards
D4D as in hilux and prado

3.0 L 121 kW (162 hp) I4 1KD-FTV intercooled VN turbo diesel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_KD_engine#1KD-FTV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_KD_engine#1KD-FTV)

[drool]

duc_fan, take a look at prices

http://www.encuentra24.com/panama-es/autos-usados#search=f_year.2000- (http://www.encuentra24.com/panama-es/autos-usados#search=f_year.2000-)|f_make.Toyota

I know, this isn't a "small diesel truck"... but those following this thread may be interested anyway.  Wonder if it's still gonna run an LML motor (same as 2011-2014), or if they've been able to do anything to help mileage.  Power and torque figures are unchanged.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2013/09/2015-chevrolet-silverado-hd-unveiled-at-state-fair-of-texas.html (http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2013/09/2015-chevrolet-silverado-hd-unveiled-at-state-fair-of-texas.html)

Supposedly a guy named Nick at duramaxtuner.com has been able to squeeze more power and fuel efficiency out of the LML trucks, WITH all the emissions controls in place, with the same or less frequent regens.  It's all in the mapping.  As much as the OEMs like to claim they do everything they can for fuel economy and power, the reality is they put their development teams on tight deadlines and budgets, and the engine guys at the OEMs don't have the time they need to really maximize the mapping potential of the vehicle (then get it through all the EPA and DOT testing and certification that has to happen).

I like the appearance of the new ones a bit better than mine... but honestly, not enough difference to warrant the cost.  There is at least 200,000 miles of life in mine, and I plan on driving it 'til it is not economically repairable.

I love the new GMCs but not the Chevys( It's a headlight thing...). Though they are very very large trucks, GM got some decent fuel economy out the V6(18/24MPG) which is good as the I4 in my taco with gobs more power and torque. They V8 is no slouch either with 16/23MPG. This is why we don't have small trucks, the big ones can hold their own without giving up anything you expect from a truck. Don't forget these are Push rod cam in block engines, I wish i waited.....oh wells....

A certain improvement JohnEE.  I had a 2011 Z71 and got 15 on a good day in town without a heavy foot.  I do hate the variable cylinder shut-off though especially with aftermarket exhaust.  My F250 averages 16-17 in town and 20-21 on the highway, paid a little more but most mid-sized trucks these days are the same price as full sized. 

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner

Sploosh
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/191h0hohushsajpg/original.jpg)
The blacked out headlights.....  [drool] [drool]

I saw this VW at the 2013 IAA in Frankfurt. It sports a 2.0 TDI as a 4X4 with double cab:


(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/zaster99/014_zps3f5a75da.jpg)

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/zaster99/015_zpscdc0360b.jpg)

The 47K Euro price tag wouldn't fly in the US. You might as well go all out
and get this 6X6 by Mercedes  ;D


(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/zaster99/085_zpsfd149dee.jpg)

the VW Amarok has a 2.0TDI with 140hp and a biturbo tdi with 160 and gobbles of torque . . . the price is for the "full extras" version . . . here in Panama it doesn't even get so hight . . .

the Chevy, yes, please, just no graphics . . .

Wonder who gets to take home n drive the concepts...

If you are talking about the Mercedes, it is not a concept and sold by a German tuner.

 http://www.autoevolution.com/mercedes-blog/brabus-b63s-700-6x6-and-850-biturbo-ibusiness-caught-in-dusseldorf-video-67745.html (http://www.autoevolution.com/mercedes-blog/brabus-b63s-700-6x6-and-850-biturbo-ibusiness-caught-in-dusseldorf-video-67745.html)

Interesting article http://editorial.autos.msn.com/diesels-in-the-usa-time-for-a-renaissance?icid=autos_4759 (http://editorial.autos.msn.com/diesels-in-the-usa-time-for-a-renaissance?icid=autos_4759)

Yes.  Whale penises.
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/autosblog.aspx?feat=250166ae-fafb-466d-bbf7-e0647e004935 (http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/autosblog.aspx?feat=250166ae-fafb-466d-bbf7-e0647e004935)

Unmake the beast with two backsingbelieveable.... [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]

I KNOW, right?

friction activated lumbar support

I *want* that VW.

Too bad at $47k Euros it's more expensive than my 2500HD Duramax LTZ CCSB 4x4. [roll]

Guess I'll just keep rockin' the big Silverado...

Sadly the VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI is waaaaaaaaaaay out of our[wife+me] purchasing league, so, she is sorta locked into this one, http://pa.chevroletcentroamerica.com/suvs/trax.html (http://pa.chevroletcentroamerica.com/suvs/trax.html) . . . sadly no diesel . . .

If theNissan Juke (http://www.nissan.com.pa/vehiculos/juke) had a diesel available

or if this Mitsubishi (http://mitsubishi-panama.com/categories/categoria_1359729835) where also imported as a diesel . . .

Why, because since diesel here has a high sulfur content, Asian manufacturers, execpt for the commercial vehicles, are not importing diesels . ..   :'(

<edit>
If my wife liked this one, http://www.nissan.com.pa/vehiculo/x-trail (http://www.nissan.com.pa/vehiculo/x-trail) . . .

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrp7ku7yKv1qzwz2no1_400.png)

Go with the Nissan. GM Has just made too made Crap vehicles over the years. They look nice but...

At least look under the hood and ask yourself how hard would it be to do this or that.

The Chevy Cruze is designed by Suzuki and I believe the diesel engine is too.

Suzukis are not bad cars for their segment.

The Chevy Equinox is also a Suzuki.  All the higher rated chevies are.

Yes, I am trying to steer her to a GrandVitara with the 2.4L engine . . .thing is, it only comes with said engine, in 4 dr trim . . .

Yes one of the the only good Chevy's I ever owned was a 91 S10 and I think it was designed by Mitsubishi.

Edit: Wiki says Isuzu

Isuzu .. .

Yea that one got over 300K before it went to the bone yard with only a few minor design flaws. most notably the throwout bearing chirped all its life despite being replaced once, the oil pressure senders going out all the time and the return springs on the interior door release. otherwise it was a pretty good rig. cant say the same for some other GM things Ive owned. the other good ones I've owned were a 1976 GMC Jimmy, and a 1972 Camaro RS.

just saw your edit . . . .

The current Chevy Colorado is an Isuzu iirc. 

They design the bigger cars and trucks but almost all the smaller stuff is suzuki or isuzu.

One correction the diesel in the Cruze is from VM just like Chryslers.

VM?

ANyways, just Mitsubishi in their pick ups and Montero, Nissan on pick ups and X-Trail and Toyota on pick ups and Prado SUV have diesels, sadly Suzuki wont import the Grand Vitara with the diesel engine . . .

Now, if we had an Opel dealership, I would take this one, http://www.opel.de/fahrzeuge/modelle/personenwagen/antara/configurator.html#engine (http://www.opel.de/fahrzeuge/modelle/personenwagen/antara/configurator.html#engine)

VM Motori, of Italy.   Former owner of Ducati!

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1208dp_banks_vm_motori_630t_v6_diesel_engine/ (http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1208dp_banks_vm_motori_630t_v6_diesel_engine/)

Oh . . .

Interesting article . . .

Yeah esp the part about VM half owned by Fiat and GM each.  That explains why the Cruze has a VM diesel.

Fiat bought VM from Finn Meccanica in the 90s.  Good deal.

then that diesel is a good diesel . .  CRI system . . .

Looks like they are making it ready to work on JP8 which had a few problems running in regular diesels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP-8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP-8)


When used in highly supercharged diesel engines with the corresponding low compression ratio of about only 14:1 or below, JP-8 causes troubles during cold start and idling due to low compression temperatures and subsequent ignition delay because the cetane index is not specified in MIL-DTL-83133G to 40 or higher. Because lubricity to the BOCLE method is not specified in MIL-DTL-83133G, modern common-rail diesel engines can experience wear problems in high-pressure fuel pumps and injectors. Another problem in diesel engines can be the increased wear in outlet valve seats in the cylinder heads, because a minimum content of sulfur is not specified in MIL-DTL-83133G. Sulfur in fuels normally contributes to a build-up of damping soot layers in these valve seats. According to the notes in this standard, it is intended to include a cetane index value in one of the next releases.

Alternative Fuel Technologies, Redford, Michigan, is currently working, through an SBIR (Small Business Innovation Research) grant (Phase 2), on mitigation of the valve-wear issue persuant to using JP-8 fuel in common rail diesel engines, and recently received an award granted by The National Science Foundation, (http://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/193600 (http://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/193600)).

Workers have complained of smelling and tasting JP-8 for hours after exposure. As JP-8 is less volatile than standard diesel fuel, it remains on the contaminated surfaces for longer time, increasing the risk of exposure.[3]

Diesel is roughly 25-30% more efficient, contains more usable energy than gasoline and a lot of diesel cars sold in Europe deliver better mileage than so-called hybrids. Too bad most Americans have sticker shock at the pump.  Unless you drive 30k miles a year a 30-50 cent difference isn't going to impact most people adversely.  I rented a VW Polo in Spain and got 62 mpg.

Part of the decision to go diesel with C's Jetta was that despite the more expensive per gallon price, the higher MPG more or less offset the cost.  She went from around 32MPG to 38MPG in mixed driving.  It does even better on the highway.  It also has plenty of power where the Mazda2 took a significant MPG hit if you maintained more than about 60-65 on the highway.

Isuzu has had a large presence with GM.  My 1994 Cavalier had Isuzu stamped on a lot of drive train.

JM

diesel is higher price but a lot of states are trying to deal with that. For instance here in Virginia the state will refund the tax on diesel fuel for personal use. I think that's about 25 cents per gallon which makes with mid grade Gas

I'm part of a team that's been jerking around with trying to get jet fuels to run in reciprocating engines.  The problem, as you stated, is that cetane and sulfer content (amongst others) are not specified.  Of course, for a turbojet or turbofan engine, it doesn't matter.  But when you're injecting that fuel at specified intervals into a cylinder with a reciprocating piston... well, certain physical properties of the fuel become important.  Making an engine that can handle wide variations in fuel properties is a challenge, to put it mildly.

Since the services are trying to move to a "one fuel" model (everything running JP-5 or JP-8, depending on whether you're land- or ship-based), it would make sense for them to revise the jet fuel specifications and include allowable cetane, sulfur content, and lubricity indices (amongst other properties that are currently uncontrolled).

I'll sound dissent on GM making crap.  My family has use GM trucks (full-size, pickups and Suburbans) for years without trouble.  My 2011 2500HD is great.  Yeah, so some of the interior plastics rattle when I go blasting down the washboard road.  That's a minor annoyance.  Now, if I had dropped over $60k for a Denali, and it rattled like that, I'd be a little more annoyed.  All the important drivetrain stuff, however, is great.  Can't say the same for extended family that has been driving Ford and Dodge HDs.  To many blown transmissions to count.  Also, look under the hood of *any* new HD truck.  None of them is user-friendly for servicing.  The biggest problem is all the mandatory emissions plumbing.  Now all the dealerships have a bunch of services that call for the cab to be lifted.

Now, as for GM cars... that's another story.  Really hit-or-miss depending on model.  The Sky is great, except for the cheapness of the interior plastics.  Otherwise the 2.4L Ecotec is bulletproof, the suspension is sublime, and the body & paint are excellent.  Other GM cars, you really gotta do the research.  Some are good, others are total crap.  In this, GM is not alone.

If you lived in Chile and didn't need a 4x4, then you would be looking at one of these:

http://www.chevrolet.cl/orlando-auto-familia.html (http://www.chevrolet.cl/orlando-auto-familia.html)

BTW, I'm selling mine now that I'm moving back.

actually don't need a 4x4, and that one is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too big for wife to drive and way too many seats . . .

It's not that big. From the front it looks massive.

Wait till 2015, and we might not be too stupid anymore

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/11/20/chevrolet-colorado-mid-size-pickup-los-angles-auto-show/3600611/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/11/20/chevrolet-colorado-mid-size-pickup-los-angles-auto-show/3600611/)

2 gas engines in 2014, 1 diesel in 2015.