Ducati Monster Forum

So, I brought my 2000 ducati monster 900 out of storage and did everything to get her ready for riding. changed oil, put air in the tires and even went on a nice canyon ride. 5 days ago it snowed out of the blue and I wasn't able to move my bike before it got snowed on. Wiped off snow but it now will not start and put it under covered parking but it wouldnt start later that day. I gave it a few days to dry out still won't start.

When I try to start it I turn the key and here the fuel pump putting fuel in to start. I hit the starter button and it turns the engine over, I see the starter motor engaged turning, occasionally i'll hear a pop noise but the engine won't start. I can't push start it either.

I have a battery tender and made sure it was completely charged and that the distilled water levels are good. I checked the air filter and it seems fine. I checked the spark plugs. Both were gapped a little more than recommended. 1 of them showed according to my book signs of a rich air/fuel mixture indicated by the sooty carbon on it. The other looked like it could use being replaced so I replaced them both. still no luck and same condition.

Please help me diagnose this problem so I can enjoy the summer riding in store! Thanks.

Are you sure you have good spark?  Did you store the bike with fuel stabilizer?  Is the cranking speed sufficient?  What is the voltage reading across the battery while cranking?

Hi Howie,

I'm confident this will get figured out with your experise. Thanks. I usually put stabilizer i'm not 100% I did cause I was rushed when I stored it and had to leave town but since I've been back I rode enough to need to refill my tank with premium and I put some stabilizer in then just incase as per instructions.

voltage was only 10.5 volts across terminals when I tried to start. read 12 idle. I hadnt recharged it since the other day trying to start it probably drained the battery a bit. Battery is a little more than 1 year old. I'll try by passing with car to see if that changes things. I'm not sure how to measure cranking speed. Also it won't push start. doesn't that probably indicate things?

I've never worked with spark before so I'm not positive if they are sparking correctly but I have uploaded a video posted at this link. let me know if you think its a weak spark.
2000 ducati monster m900 spark plug sparking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE17fDFhaKA&feature=youtu.be#)
should also help maybe based on the sounds.

thanks I eagerly wait your reply.

Battery is a little weak, but in spite of that cranking speed sounds OK.  Hard to tell in the video, but spark looks good.  Charge the battery overnight.  If convenient, have it load tested so you know you have a good battery.

Give this a try; put a drop or two of fresh gas down each throttle body.  see if you get some life.  If you do have stale gas it will burn (maybe not so well) once the cylinders are warm. 

I have no idea how to load test motorcycle battery and when I asked autozone they said they can only do it for cars.

I'll try charging the battery overnight but I hooked jumper cables up to the battery terminals (car was off) to my car and then to the corresponding positive and negatives of my bikes battery and that wouldn't even turn it just clicked.( i have no idea what that means did i hook it up wrong?)

I drained the fuel tank and will replace with new fuel just to ensure there was no water in the tank. Is it possible water is somewhere in the fuel lines?

To start we need fuel, air and spark. If I can't push start it and my spark plugs are fine and battery as well perhaps somethings wrong with the fuel or air mix? one of the old spark plugs was black and sooty and indicated according to my chart that there might be too rich of a fuel air mixture or obstructed air filter. I don't know where I should start to tackle trouble shooting that.
 
Air filter looked fine under the casing. there is a red cone shaped filter thats under the tank and seat area. I am not sure what that is for but it looks a little mucky.

(https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?ui=2&ik=29d9a033bd&view=att&th=1369efdfc434f4e7&attid=0.1&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P9DKE5Hy9Iu3YvEOz-t1h6m&sadet=1334107491298&sads=LrUD-tk7Ec0mGTnFX9bMhLxUoZg)

I just drained the tank(that sucked) and will put new fuel in it tomorrow.

I'm going to check the pressure tomorrow morning. my logic says that if the spark plugs arent wet (which they havent been) and the spark is indeed happening then fuel must not be getting into the system. perhaps a valve is stuck or somethings wrong with the injection? I don't know if it is relevant but I'm getting close to the 6000 mile valve service work.

Please anyone else feel free to chime in. I want to have this fixed by thursday evening and will be working on it and check here all day tomorrow and thursday.

The spark looks fine and the engine was turning over nicely ( but with no compression because the plug was out).

You have the recipie for fire: Air, Fuel, Ignition and momentun. 

Looks like you have the last two.  Air is easy.  Follow the fuel.  Fuel filter, pinched lines, bad connections, etc...

It sounds like the gas. You still have the old gas in the lines, even though you drained the tank. I know with carbs you can drain the bowls to get some fresh fuel in there, but for injected I'm not sure if there is a place to drain. You may just have to keep cranking until it finally runs to burn up what remains.

The cone filter under the seat should be the crankcase vent. Normally it is routed to the air box, but it sounds like you have an aftermarket piece (K&N maybe). It's normal for it to be dirty, since it catches any oil which positive pressure from the crank case throws out.

So I found some this on another thread

"The comment about the fuel flowing from left to right means that the fuel is pumped out of the left (as you are sitting on the bike) tank connector through the fuel hose to the pressure regulator and then returns on the right side of the motor into the right side quick connect. I would pop the hose off the right side of the regulator and briefly switch the ignition to see if fuel is getting that far. After that I would pop out the injector on the horizontal cylinder and crank the motor (with the injector connected) to see if it is supplying fuel or not."

Will try this and check back. if it comes down to having to clean fuel injectors any posts on how to do that step by step would be great

fuel seems to be flowing just fine. I read about doing a pressure test by putting my finger over the cyclinder hole where the spark plug goes. pressure was strong and fine on the vertical cyclinder (directly under gas tank closest to seat). The horizontal cyclinder was most likely the problem. pressure was very low and didn't come close to moving my finger.

What do I do now? I'll be looking online but people who already know your comments are welcome. I'm thinking this might mean that a valve is stuck? no idea how to fix that. I do have a haynes manual though and a good community of ducati forum friends!

As per advice of other individuals I bought a can of aresol starter fluid and sprayed a little on the air filter and in the cylinder of each spark plug. this did nothing.

What I know:
was riding fine a 2 weeks ago and i changed oil and went through a whole tank of gas

engine turns, starter motor is engaging, battery distilled levels full, holding 12.5 volts puts out 10.5 when I hit starter, spark plugs are sparking and new, fuel tank has brand new fuel, Fuel pump is engaging every time the key turns and works fine, engine kill is not pushed

***Pressure/ compression in vertical cylinder feels fine. pressure/compression in horizontal cyclinder feels weak. Would this be why bike won't start or just be an issue for performance?

Potential things to do:
I've looked around and still don't know how to perfrom cylinder leakage test.
Would inspecting the fuel injectors and cleaning them possibly be the fix?
Is there possibly something wrong with valves? How do I diagnose?

I'm moving in a couple weeks and need to figure this out before then. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I am super happy to take phone calls or text for more clear and immediate communication. 801-512-7549 Traeden<trade in> as  mentioned fuel injected 2000 monster 900. I have a Haynes manual.

 

Since the valves open and close mechanically "stuck" would result more than just starting issues.  If it were valve related more likely a belt problem.

If you can't get it running even on starter fluid, it would seem to me that ignition would be the most likely problem, but I would do a few more tests on the fuel front before you draw any conclusions. I would suggest taking off the air filter and pouring a few drops of gasoline directly down the throttle bodies.  If that doesn't work, then you can judiciously spray some starting fluid directly down the throttle body. If neither of those work, it seems like ignition is the likely culprit.
     It is difficult to tell whether or not your spark is OK based on the video of your plug at the specified gap.  It is much easier to spark across a gap in open air than in compressed air in the engine, so you need to see how well it sparks across a large gap in open air.  Also, I can't tell in the video if the spark plug is grounded to the engine case or anything, which is important to do (it can damage your ignition system if the spark plug is not grounded).  You need to hold the spark plug against the engine case or another grounded place to make sure that you don't mess up the ignition system. 
    To test the spark, a tool like this one (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Great-Neck-Adjustable-ignition-spark-tester/_/N-268s?itemIdentifier=10257_0_0_):  is generally used. With that, you can see exactly how large a gap your spark can jump.  If it does not jump the specified gap (it should be in the Haynes manual somewhere), then I would start investigating ignition further.
    If it ran well very recently, I think any sort of valve or compression issue is unlikely.  If you ran into a problem that ruined your compression or valvetrain that fast, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you would have noticed it when it happened.
   Also, during this testing, I would recommend hooking the bike up to a car battery (with the car not running and the bike's battery taken out of the equation).  A mostly drained battery makes it a real pregnant dog to find anything else, and a good car battery will give you all the juice you need for loads of unsuccessful troubleshooting!

Good luck!

Thanks bond. I'll look into getting the spark plug tester. I did ground it to the engine case. I tried hooking up to my car battery (car not running) but the bike wouldn't even turn over when I did this. Perhaps I hooked it up wrong?

 did the jumper cables on car battery and then attached the corresponding positive to positive and negative to negative cables on the bike without my bike battery. I also tried just grounding the negative. I also tried that with my battery left on the bike and all the same result... instead of engine turn over just a click noise.

I'll try fuel and engine starter down the throttle bodies (throttle body is exactly what?) I'll google search in the mean time.

If you have fuel, spark and compression and all are happening at the correct time the bike should start.  From one of your posts you say you have weak compression in one cylinder.  It should probably still start.  Something is being overlooked. 

Maybe a compression or cylinder leakage test is in order.  Your finger over the hole is not an accurate piece of test equipment.  Unless you have a reasonably powerful compressor a cylinder leakage test is out.  A compression test is done by installing a compression gauge and cranking the engine four revolutions with the throttle open.  Pull the fuel injection relay.  Readings will be low since the engine is cold, but the cylinders should be fairly equal.  Put a squirt of oil in the low cylinder and retest.  If the low cylinder is due to rings the reading will be notably higher.  Otherwise it is most likely a valve.

I don't understand your last post about clicking.  Does the bike no longer want to crank?  If so, this issue must be fixed first.

The throttle bodies are the carb like items under the air cleaner with the plates that open when you twist the throttle.  Where are you been putting the gas and starter fluid?

Careful with the starter fluid.  It has an unbelievably low octane rating and engine damage can occur.

Oh, check valve timing too.

You might also consider getting the bike over to a pro.  Sometimes it is easier and cheaper in the long run.

it clicks instead of turn over if I hook up my car battery (car off) with jumper cables to my bike. when im using the motorcycle battery it turns over.

I was putting the starter fluid aerosol spray on air filter and inside where spark plugs are at as per advice of someone else. I'll hold off on the compression test since you said it should still start. I'll try the throttle bodies as suggested.

I know I am far from a pro mechanic but I enjoy the learning experience. If it was something like an engine rebuild or maybe even replacing the piston rings i'd probably take it in but so far ive had some rich experiences working on my bike and I don't want to trade those in for expensive fix lacking in personal knowledge increase so someday I can be a less knowledgable version of a howie =D

The only thing I can think of with your bike not cranking when boosted with your car battery is loose terminals, remove, clean, reinstall.  Disconnect negative first connect negative last for safety.

Do the compression test.  Poor wording on my part.  The bike can start on one cylinder if all else is fine, not necessarily will.  If the engine needs major work it is pointless to get it running.

Believe it or not, it takes less knowledge to rebuild an engine than to diagnose.  Oh,with training and experience you can become a you can be a much more and better version of Howie. 

Okay, to get to the throttle bodies its kind of a pain on my bike, i have to remove the battery disconnect a ton of stuff and finally i can take out the air filter housing. I will try putting the starter fluid down the bodies as suggested. before I do this though I just wanted to put some pictures of them to show condition.
closed throttle body 1 (https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?ui=2&ik=29d9a033bd&view=att&th=136adddde0783c8e&attid=0.1&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P9DKE5Hy9Iu3YvEOz-t1h6m&sadet=1334357025340&sads=0YOpODQtyPX_bG2WdctAvVYW5pk)

open throttle 1(https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?ui=2&ik=29d9a033bd&view=att&th=136adde4904c4d8e&attid=0.1&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P9DKE5Hy9Iu3YvEOz-t1h6m&sadet=1334357086535&sads=03RnOQXe4U5rSGh2wNRhrz2uLU0)

open throttle 2 (https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?ui=2&ik=29d9a033bd&view=att&th=136addeb1a1c7fea&attid=0.1&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P9DKE5Hy9Iu3YvEOz-t1h6m&sadet=1334357119654&sads=4wDdApQsn7ZTx3YLDKXIp9jUrEA)

they both were closed and open at the same rate and appear to function fine.

I just wanted to ask real quick since I already have all this off, Is it a possibility that the fuel injectors are gummed up from ethanol or bad gas during its storage and should I take them off and clean them since I'm already here?

injector 1(https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?ui=2&ik=29d9a033bd&view=att&th=136addee28c87e81&attid=0.1&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P9DKE5Hy9Iu3YvEOz-t1h6m&sadet=1334357225320&sads=bsnmxZqul_MOC765uPkWL-Kvr7g)

injector 2 (https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?ui=2&ik=29d9a033bd&view=att&th=136addf45d39245b&attid=0.1&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P9DKE5Hy9Iu3YvEOz-t1h6m&sadet=1334357244564&sads=6IO8dbBeXWsdUAn69zNRIGvgfeA)

I did an ohms measure across both terminals and the readings were the same so there shouldnt be any issue with the electrical side of them functioning properly

sorry forgot to mention I tried hooking up to  car again (not running) with jumpers and this time it didn't do the clicking it turned over the exact same way it does with the motorcycle battery.

I had a fun experience learning how to remove the air filter housing inorder to expose the throttle bodies and found out how to access a lot of other things on my motorcycle. unfortunately spraying starter fluid down the throttle bodies didn't get me any closer to starting the motorcycle. The spark plugs were moist after trying to start it multiple times. Does this mean that the spark plugs even though I made sure to ground them and watch them spark outside the engine perhaps aren't sparking enough to ignite the fuel or is there a timing issue? Do motorcycles have timing belts? I know it was mentioned that the compression issue in the horizontal cylinder shouldn't keep the bike from starting but if the air mixture with fuel wasn't right wouldn't that be reason for the spark and fuel to not combust and start the bike?

I don't have a pressure gauge so I'll have to go buy one inorder to determine as mentioned by howie whether the pressure issue is valve or ring related. in the meantime any other suggestions?

All you had to do to get to the throttle bodies is open the airbox lid and remove the filter element.  Most bikes don't have timing belts, but your bike has two, one for each cylinder.  Get yourself a repair manual.

I have a haynes manual that covers my monster model. Perhaps it was a user error but I didn't see a way to specifically get to throttle bodies and I didn't know if it was kosher to try and take off the plastic parts of the housing. I did however read that I could access them by removing the housing so that's what I did. Sorry if my posts are incessant and bothersome... just a 25 year old who's having an adventure with his first ducati. I also ask questions here that I research on the forums and online at the same time so that I can confirm what I find elsewhere.

I have done some research and feel a little stupid cause I shouldve realized that my bike does have the two timing belts and I already know exactly how to get to both of them (it's funny when you don't know the names of things). I was reading through some forums and one person described the sound of a ducati with a broken timing belt as "a single struggling to start" which is exactly what I'm experiencing so I'm optimistic that this might be the right fix hopefully. As long as it doesn't snow or rain again I'll be looking into this tomorrow. I saw the cacycle videos posted by chris (thanks chris) and feel like this is doable if its necessary. Any quick pointers on how to tell by looking at the belts if they are in need of replacement or adjusting or a simple test to indicate such?

If its bad enough to keep it fom starting a belt is either broken or missing teeth.  The front cylinder belt is easy to get at.  Since you said there was little compression on that cylinder that would be the suspect belt.  Pull the cover and if everything is fine put it back on.

Okay, took off the covers and inspected the timing belts. I saw no badly damaged teeth or obvious(at least to me) signs of damage or rot.
horizontal belt 1
(http://i.imgur.com/xqVOc.jpg)
horizontal belt 2
(http://i.imgur.com/WoSlf.jpg)
vertical belt 1
(http://i.imgur.com/ltpNd.jpg)
vertical belt 2
(http://i.imgur.com/IZfoC.jpg)

here is a video of the belts as I try to start the bike you can hear the fuel pump engage
IMG_1318.MOV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6ADoOhGE8g&feature=youtu.be#)


I am not sure this is sufficient to show if there is an obvious problem with the tension?
 IMG_1319.MOV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-WLW4bpnJ4&feature=youtu.be#)

Those belts look really loose.

The spec recommended by DesmoTimes is that you can fit a 5mm Allen under the fixed roller (not tensioner), but not a 6mm.

Here's a good explaination:

http://www.ducatisuite.com/belttension.html (http://www.ducatisuite.com/belttension.html)

bah was raining today. I checked out the instructions on the ducati suite website and will adjust tension on belts when skies clear up since it needs doing anyway but that wouldn't cause a starting issue would it?

this is what my air filter looks like. How bad is this on a scale of 1-10?

(http://i.imgur.com/MvOjF.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/CCVZt.jpg)

I'm not sure if it will not let it start, though they definately need to be within spec. How old are they? It might be better to just replace them for peace of mind.

Also, none of your pictures are showing up for me. You might want to check your hosting.

Thanks for informing me that the pictures weren't coming through for you. this should fix that problem. I tested the primary and secondary ignition coils for the spark plugs and everything is working fine (just to make sure the spark is good enough).

Timing belt is good. Battery and power is good. Starter motor is good. fuel pump is good. killswitch is not on. fuel is good.

Vertical cylinder is firing, pressure is good and spark is good. the plug is not wet and fine when i remove after trying to start

***horizontal cylinder is not firing. pressure is very low. spark is good but plug is wet when removed after trying to start.
 It's not obvious to me that air is leaking anywhere. what are the potential reasons the cyclinder won't fire if its pressure/air related? piston ring? valve? some type of pressure sensor? fuel mixture is too rich or heavy so fuel won't ignite?

My friend said that if a piston ring had gone it would spew oil and blue flame/smoke out exhaust. Is this sound judgement?

2 weeks and counting to fix this monster before I have to move.

Do any folks here live near the salt lake or provo area of utah and would be willing to rent a cylinder leak down tester? $100 is a lot to pay for a tool which at this point I probably will only use for this situation.

okay so i started another thread is my timing belt off and here are the updates.

kay... Move the belt to the proper position and she lives! she didn't start right up but she runs now. no unusual sounds and felt fine riding it up to second gear. the only thing that i'm confused about now is that it took a long time to warm up (the choke was completely open for more than 10 minutes and when i tried to let off it died) after riding it around the block it would idle with the choke closed but it was obviously struggling.

I am assuming the belt slipped cause it was lose (when it slipped and how much it was ridden after I have no idea cause I noticed no issues in performance or unusual sounds). and then when i went to tri and start it up the computer wouldn't let it cause of the timing belt being off? (can someone confirm if the computer or a sensor does indeed do this?)

Other than the bad idle the compression in the front cylinder is still the same (low enough that the compression tester doesnt even get a reading)

Is it safe to ride at all? where do I go from here starting with the easiest things to elimintate and determine why the bad idle and why no compression in the front cylinder? Is it a clear sign that a valve must be bent open or something to explain no compression?

Thanks guys.