Ducati Monster Forum

At the track, what's your preferred order of operations when entering a corner? I'm looking at this guy's technique and it looks like he's braking, downshifting, blipping the throttle, and leaning into the turn all at once. I wish I was that coordinated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V46esCMe55I

I do it same order as this guy but without the multiple gear downshifts. I've only been to the track once though. [Dolph]

I do braking and downshifting at the same time, same as he, but I don't position until I'm done braking, unless I'm trail braking.

Proper form calls for positioning before dropping into the corner, but I've always found it much more natural to use my bodyweight to drop in as I position; also gives me more time to get my braking done (late braking). It's an extremely physical way to ride and can lead to scares if you miss something so I wouldn't recommend it, but whatever feels comfortable.

Position (i.e., butt off seat), downshift & brake (depends on corner, sometimes downshift 1st), tip-in.

A good rule is to try and get as much done as possible before you tip-in. Moving on the bike as you tip-in can upset the suspension...it can also lead to oh-shit moments if you go in too hot because your body isn't set for the turn (like Matador said). It's much easier to take a corner faster than you anticipated if your body is in the correct position. Really, unless you're on a long straight you shouldn't ever be sitting in the middle of the bike...you should be setting up for the next corner as you come out of the previous one.

the more you can manage in a given instant, the better you'll be prepared for that harry one off situation, so practice!!!

Like Triple J says
More you do ahead of time, less you need to think about in the moment... Any time, All the time.

On a tight switchback, that means you'll be be playing monkey on a sidecar rig and using centrifugal forces to help you move your butt from one lean to the next, shifting your body to the other side while you're still leaned 45 to the one side and expeditiously standing it up... While avoiding suspension upset, if you do it while going from full lean one way to full lean the next, the suspension will be upset enough as it is an your ass movement at the right time won't matter so much...

But normally, on any ordinary road or track, you'll have plenty of time to go from one side to the other, so hang on the one side until you're straight and level with the front wheel pulling up off the ground, then lift your butt and move it to the other side for the next corner...

On braking (front) into the corner, again it's good to know how much braking forces you can pull while leaned over - you never know when you'll come around a blind corner and find a jacknived truck or flipped SUV (or on tighter roads, a spun out Porsche blocking both lanes...  I see this one more often than I'd like. Oh midlife...). My braking ratio is somewhere abouts 100% front and rear off the ground, so I discount the rear entirely. So practicing braking late into the corner, practicing modulation and finding how much brake you can pull while leaned, will again help you with survival skills.  

Downshifting - if you're getting hard on the brake, go ahead and downshift, you don't need to let the clutch out just get in the gear think is right and you can slowly let the clutch out when you're ready to accelerate.  If you're on a dry track racing, that's sooner than later, you want to get leaned over then pull hard through the corner, that'll keep your line and all, and give you a good exit speed, so get into gear, get locked quick, and gun it.  on the street, just get into an appropriate range - again, it could save your tail if the folks behind you can't slow down so quick and you need to hustle out of the way.

IMO, as a commuter, all we're doing all the time in everything we do is practicing to survive...
 [beer]

Same order for me, unless I'm coming off a straight at 160+. Then I delay positioning slightly because the drag sucks if you position going that fast. Or I partially position until I slow down a little.

Just means you don't have to brake as hard... ;D

coming off the straight at 160, if you don't want to use your abs to counter the wind, it's easiest to just stick your butt out there early, and keep the rest of your body still in tuck - if your butt is as, uh, shall we say, robust?, as mine, it's pretty sturdy and weighty, and isn't really bothered by the wind all too much.  Then after you've accomplished a little braking and as you're about to lean in, you can throw the rest of your body out there, as a sort of drag parachute - just, as you're turning to look where you intend to go, don't turn your head, instead open your legs, spread your elbows, use your hips aim your head and let your shoulders follow.... Or something like that  ;D

But, I gotta say, since you're hopefully using the pegs and legs to lift and move your tail, and not your arms, it can be a little squidgety to try to move your butt while you're turning in, so I don't recommend doing so at all...  If you're using your arms to lift your tail mid corner, it's even worse, all that force goes to the front end gyroscope, and really weird stuff happens [laugh]

But if you can do some situps/crunches and build your abs up, it's as Ducpainter says
[thumbsup]

Hey, thanks for the replies. I'm a track newbie so that's a lot to keep in mind for the next event. I guess my biggest problem is controlling the brake and throttle at the same time. When downshifting and trail braking, I can't seem to blip the throttle to without doing something unpredictable with the brake lever. Not smooth at all. So I wind up having to get all my downshifting done before I apply the brakes. Seems like I'm losing speed well before I need to. Guess I just need to practice.

Some people blip, some don't. Instead of blipping you can just let the clutch out slow to give the motor time to catch up...a poor man's slipper clutch. Some will disagree, but there is more than one way to manage revs. At his track school Pridmore said blipping is a waste of time if you have a slipper clutch.  [coffee]

I'm not a blipper for the reasons you mentioned.

[laugh]
Yeah, I tend to brake too early anyway. I should try the "air brake" more.

I think most of us 'mortals' brake too early. ;)

I hate this guys camo getup and paint job.  Not saying the normal leather onsies aren't screaming for attention, but this guy rubs me wrong for some reason.  I guess I am uncomfortable with super aggressive riders, even on the track.   [coffee]

he's the head dragger

Knee dragging to Head drag No Crash Motorcycle racing track (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T645xjxMxTc#)

Impressive, but only adds fuel to the small stick tepee I already built for him.  Too much "look at me" in this guy.

Seems to be fast though.  [thumbsup]

It's a matter of practice.  I've blipped for nearly 30 years now, and it simply becomes part of your routine once you get used to it.  For what it's worth, most of the guys I know who practice the technique use either one or two fingers to brake and the others, along with the palm of their hands, to blip while braking.  I use my middle finger to brake with my index finger either laying on the lever or the lever pivot (depending on the bike) and my ring and pinkie fingers to blip.  The "trick", if you can call it that, is to maintain constant pressure on the lever....so don't grasp the lever at a knuckle, but rather use your fingertip or the "pad" of a finger to modulate the brake.  This way it's more natural to maintain a constant pressure instead of a constant position.  Bear in mind that these manuevers are pretty small movements, as a blip isn't a "pin the throttle" motion, but rather a scant throttle movement.  It doesn't take much when the clutch is pulled in.  Also, easing the clutch out over a quarter or half second works better than simply dumping it.

My shiny, new Panigale has a slipper.  I don't depend on it, despite the advice of several riders more skilled than I, simply because I fear it might interfere with my normal corner setup and put my rather sensitive ass on the ground.  I hate sliding without a bike, despite considerable practice since I began racing in the '80s.    ;D

Now, that whole speed shifter thing is entirely too easy to get used to!  And I LOVE Engine Braking Control....it's not two-stroke good....but it's pretty darned good, nonetheless.   [Dolph]

Don't have that mastered yet!