Ducati Monster Forum

I still have my 2005 S2r and have monitored the tank since I coated it in 2009.  It has had very minimal dimensional changes -- some of which I assume to be "normal" expansion and contraction due to moisture and temperature.

If you still have the same bike that was affected by the lawsuit, i.e. a Monster or Multistrada with a plastic tank made of PA6 nylon:

1.  Did you get the frame modification for the tank?

2.  Did you get a replacement tank?  Have you noticed changes in the new tank?

3.  Did you coat your tank?  Was it the original tank or was it a new tank?  If new, where did you get it from (i.e. from Ducati or bought it elsewhere)?

4.  Do you have the original tank and have had no problems with expansion?


I'm not doing anything official, I'm just wondering how the issue has resolved itself. 

I used the Caswell coating on several tanks, some for people who paid me to do it, and found that it has held up very well.  I coated two bikes that I ride (S2r and a 620) and have since sold the 620.  My S2r was the very first tank I coated with the old Caswell formulation and I've inspected it with a fibre optic camera and measured it thru the years.  The images showed no obvious "delamination" of the coating and my measurements (front to back tip to tip and side to side external widest points) showed negligible variations (i.e. 2-3 mm).

After coating my tank in 2009 (or was it 2010?)  I started prepping the tanks differently -- rasping the surface inside the tank, making actual rough divots in the surface for the coating to hang from, drying them longer and flushing them out with xylene.  I chose xylene because it is compatible with PA6 (acc to various chem eng I consulted) and because Caswell said it was a compatible cutting agent for their product.

The last tank I did was probably the toughest because it had a very different surface -- the older tanks had a lot of artifact air bubbles and rougher surface, but the later tanks seemed to have a higher QA and almost no bubbles and a much smoother surface.  ALl of them indicated they were PA6 nylon, but the smoother surface gave me concern as to the adherence of the coating.  These tanks I made a bigger effort to prep the surfaces.  I used a very small drill bit to make shallow holes in the interior for the coating to enter and provide a hold.  In my testing (I cut up a tank) I found that a 1.5mm wide and 2mm deep hole did not compromise the tank's strength or flexibility and gave the Caswell coating a very good anchor.  Also, the coating's fill of the hole likely eliminated any weakness due to the hole once the coating solidified.

I'm curious what your experience was/is..

I sold my "tank affected" S4Rs a few years back, but want to thank you for starting this topic.  I'm very interested in hearing what people have to say.

My 07 S4RS  (One owner) had tank replaced under warranty in 09. New Tank has continued to bloat making it difficult to latch/unlatch but unnoticeable to the average eye. No coatings, raw from factory. The plan is to continue with the current tank till bloatness exceeds certain limits then modify a metal tank from an 05 donor I found in EBay. Somewhere on this forum I found a "How to", now to find it [bang]

I have an 06 S2R 800 that had its tank replaced about 4 or 5 years ago (no coating) and used the adjustable mounts.

Its swelled a bit over the years but not enough to affect anything. no bubbling, no leak at the fuel pump flange, no contact with the bars.

I do have spare tank in the rafters if that ever changes.  If that happens ill swap everything over and put my old tank in the rafters so it can come back to size.  If I have to do that every 4-8 (or whatever) years im ok with that.  If nothing else its a good time to change the fuel filter and inspect the fuel pump wiring/hoses.

If I fall ass backwards into a steel tank (monster or 851/888) or a good deal on an aluminum one ill consider that option too, but its not really a concern of mine.

1.  Did you get the frame modification for the tank?
Not enough expansion to need it. Guessing 2-4 mm length expansion after 8 years with 50/50 zero/low ethanol. In Europe no replacement tanks offered AFAIK.

2.  Did you get a replacement tank?  Have you noticed changes in the new tank?
Two low miles used tanks borrowed and bought from dealer - neither expanded. One coated and I'm mega curious to see how it behaves in the years to come.

3.  Did you coat your tank?  Was it the original tank or was it a new tank?  If new, where did you get it from (i.e. from Ducati or bought it elsewhere)?

4.  Do you have the original tank and have had no problems with expansion?

2006 s2r

I have 2 tanks ..original which swelled to leaking around fuel flange about 3 years ago , tried to get Ducati to do something about it ..no go , so dealer let tank air out for 6 months and "sealed" the flange area ..... no leaks so far but tank does look like crap.

Second tank , used let it dry out for 2 years and have Caswell'd it , tank is perfect

Plan is when tank one leaks again will replace with good tank

 I sold my 09' 696 which Ducati would nothing about the swollen tank. It had many problems besides the tank. I bought a used 09' 1100S and it has no problems.

Still have the original tank on my '13 796.  When I bought this from the original owner, it had sat with ethanol-blended fuel in the garage for about a year... the tank had certainly swelled.  I have since switched to non-ethanol fuel and I'm assuming the tank has gone back down... but I won't know for sure until I pull the covers in a few weeks.

I replaced my plastic tank with a metal tank, and then had the plastic replaced under warranty. It is still in the box from the factory...

I have a 2006 S2R 1000 and I'm on my 3rd tank which I eventually had coated. Its been about a year since its been coated and so far so good. I should point out that my current tank (pre-lining) was deforming (elongated and weird bubble marks appearing... ) but the tank shrank back to normal after being removed from the bike and then disassembled so it could "dry out" for a few weeks.

Swapped for a steel tank when the expansion was noticeable. It was a good enough excuse to get the range I wanted.

so glad you brought this up. Being in Michigan my bike has some downtime and I was considering what my long term plans/options are.

Bought my 07 S4RS in 2012 with 130 miles on it and had the tank replaced immediately by the Ducati dealer because it showed signs of swelling. They also added the expansion bracket. For the first year I was able to source pure gas from a local station but that didn't last long enough.
Since then during riding months i try to only add 1-1.5 gallons at a time thinking that keeping the fuel level down it may not absorb throughout the whole tank (not sure if that makes a difference or not). Then in the winter when its stored for a few months I try to syphon all of the fuel out and leave the cap open for hopes that the tank will shrink back in size.
The tank doesn't "seem" too bad, no leaking and the only swelling I can detect is how it gets close to the ignition housing since the tank is at the most rearward position on the bracket.
I am now considering removing the tank completely, cleaning and have it air out for a few weeks or a month before having the Caswell coating. I'm prepared to have this professionally done because I'd like to keep this bike as long as I can and I'm not confident I would get the coating procedure right on the first shot.
Are there any concerns that this coating will not take since I have now used the tank for years with ethanol gas?

thanks!


1.  Did you get the frame modification for the tank? YES

2.  Did you get a replacement tank? YES  Have you noticed changes in the new tank? YES

3.  Did you coat your tank? NO Was it the original tank or was it a new tank? NEW If new, where did you get it from (i.e. from Ducati or bought it elsewhere)? DEALER

4.  Do you have the original tank and have had no problems with expansion? No, replaced and original was sent back to Ducati

1.  Did you get the frame modification for the tank?
I am not familiar with the frame modification but when the dealer replaced the original tank they provided different black bumpers/pads that separate the tank and the frame.  The newer bumpers/pads are slotted and adjustable in width in case a tank expands.  The original bumpers would not rest on the frame due to tank expansion.

2.  Did you get a replacement tank?  Have you noticed changes in the new tank?
The original tank expanded.  Ducati replaced the tank with a new tank and bumpers/pads. This second tank was not coated.  Second tank expanded and it was past the time when Ducati would replace tanks. The first tank expanded in width so i couldn't turn handle bars without slapping the tank and could not lock the bike.  Second tank expanded near the ignition area and I couldn't latch the tank down.  Third new tank is described under the next question.

3.  Did you coat your tank?  Was it the original tank or was it a new tank?  If new, where did you get it from (i.e. from Ducati or bought it elsewhere)?
I bought a third tank on eBay. It was brand new/unused and coated it with Caswell almost two and half years ago.  42k miles on this tank and zero expansion to date. The only con to coating is loosing some fuel volume but the trade off is worth it.  I am also considering putting on the original black bumpers/pads because they are smaller than the adjustable ones and look better.

4.  Do you have the original tank and have had no problems with expansion? 
N/A

This sounds worrisome, among all the gas stations out there who sells non-ethanol fuel?  [shot]

http://pure-gas.org/

Checked the one nearby but have to buy certain volume. Storing that much gasoline in garage is  [thumbsdown] [thumbsdown]

http://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov

Click on your state.

 I do not even have the option of having one nearby.  :-\. I use a 76 station near me that is frequented by high end cars that use the 91 octane mostly. I assume that the 91 octane is fresh and primed to the blender hoses.

No.  You have to prep the tank thoroughly.  I do this by rinsing it with MarineClean (water based petroleum solvent) and then flushing it with xylene, and then letting it sit for a while to dry completely.

The marineclean will get out everything, even the smell.  I've found that the ethanol gas only penetrates a very small amount. I did quite a bit of testing with cut-up tanks.  Soaking the material in 10% ethanol pump gas in a sealed, zero-humidity container showed a near unmeasurable difference. Same situation with 50% humidity showed a 4-6% dimensional increase.  Long and short is that water is your problem which is solved by drying the tank.

Flushing the tank removes the residual fuel very well, and letting the tank sit and dry removes the water residue.

I also started rasping the interior in key spots including using a 1.5 mm drill bit to make divots in the interior surface.

The adhesive coating enters the divot holes and creates an anchor for the coating.

Done correctly, the coating is pretty near indestructible.  Just don't use 100% ethanol to test it like the factory did.

Which brand (US, California) of gas at the pump is ethanol free??   [Dolph] [Dolph]

Look it up...

cheers, thank you!

Does this mean that all other commercially available pump gas (ARCO, Chevron, Shell, Mobile, Texaco, BP...) in the US/Cal are not methanol free?   ??? ??? ???

Ethanol...typically all pump gas in the US is 10% ethanol.

 :o :o :o

Will it affect the 2014 Monster 796 plastic tank?

Thanks,

I believe the tank issue was fixed prior to 14.

Phew, that is nice to know.

Thanks, kopfjäger  ;D ;D ;D

Lift your tank and look at the mold imprint on the bottom.  If it says PA6 then it is affected.

The later models used a cell + cover design so the outside is a separate part. They made the tank small enough that it expands and you don't know because its covered. 

mine is worst than before. my steering damper mount used to not touch my tank. now i put a 1-2mm deep gash into my tank.
it sat with about 1/2 gallong of fuel for over a year and sweelled up more.

In my case, I have to drive all the way to Oklahoma and gas up 2 5-gallon cans with non-eth fuel.  It gives me a chance to play some video poker while I'm up there, but it's a hassle to go fetch it, and then treat and store it... but I do it because I don't want problems.

Even here in Texas, the land of gas and oil, it is becoming more and more difficult to find non-eth fuel, particularly in metro locations, which, in the case of Texas, is much like California... you can't get it.

1.  Did you get the frame modification for the tank? Yes

2.  Did you get a replacement tank?  Have you noticed changes in the new tank? On 3rd or 4th tank now, seriously lost count. Original 2006 tank had ripples and blisters. 2nd tank, same problem. 3rd tank, dealer did not offer coating option. Still ended up distorting and swelling. Ok I remember now, took it back after 3rd replacement and they performed the frame mod and said everything else was cosmetic and sent me on my way so this is my 3rd tank. Ripples were an eyesore to look at, mainly at the knee indentations, so I covered the sides up with TechSpec tank grips. *Side note (@59k miles), I had to replace the fuel pump wire harness because the ethanol most likely deteriorated the epoxy causing a wire contact/fuel pump failure.

3.  Did you coat your tank?  Was it the original tank or was it a new tank?  If new, where did you get it from (i.e. from Ducati or bought it elsewhere)? Did not coat any replacement tanks, all tanks replaced with new tanks from the dealer and fuel treated with Star Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment if sitting for more than a couple weeks. (No pure-gas.org fuel stations in Northern Virginia/Washington DC area).

4.  Do you have the original tank and have had no problems with expansion? All tanks returned to Ducati, current tank has expanded to the point where tank latch release is difficult to use and unable to lock handlebars to the left.

Pure Gas link doesn't work.  :( :(

I just clicked it and it works for me.

The link works, but my bike isn't tuned for 100 octane avgas...

For my 2006 Ducati S2R800 Dark I had one tank replaced and never coated. I tried to get it replaced again a couple months before the deadline. The local dealer sat on the paperwork and sent it in late then blamed me. Told me sorry but you are out of luck. I ended up selling the bike swollen tank but I fully disclosed that to the buyer. He was going to try to air out out, shrink it down and coat it. I never hard from him again


For my 2007 S4R
1.  Did you get the frame modification for the tank?
Does this mean the bracket kit? If so no

2.  Did you get a replacement tank?  Have you noticed changes in the new tank?
Previous owner had it replaced once and then coated it with caswells. So far so good its holding up after being coated at least 4 years?

3.  Did you coat your tank?  Was it the original tank or was it a new tank?  If new, where did you get it from (i.e. from Ducati or bought it elsewhere)?
Second tank was coated the previous owner. It was from a Ducati warranty claim.

4.  Do you have the original tank and have had no problems with expansion?
The original tank had to be given back to the dealer.

FYI the tank coating option is not offered by Ducati and most dealers don't do it.  You would have to do it yourself or get someone who does it.

How much expansion? i.e. ove the sides?

Drain it, wash it out and let it sit.  You can pick up some of those mil surp dessicant bags (they are 4 or 6 oz, i forget) and pack them inside to dry it out faster.

Unless you have external rippling that is flexible (water trapped) the tank can likely shrink back to spec size.

Read my instructions on how to prep and coat it.  The coating works if you do it right.

Too bad the aftermarket aluminum tanks never came to fruition, but this is a good follow up.  I am glad to see that Caswells is holding up well for others.  I do go out of my way to keep ethanol free fuel in the tank.  

1.  Did you get the frame modification for the tank? -- No

2.  Did you get a replacement tank?  Have you noticed changes in the new tank? -- I am on my third tank.  The original and second tank were replaced under warranty.  

3.  Did you coat your tank?  Was it the original tank or was it a new tank?  If new, where did you get it from (i.e. from Ducati or bought it elsewhere)?  -- I coated the third tank with Caswells myself before it was exposed to fuel.  It seems to be holding up.  I have noticed a slight expansion in the length of the tank (clasp is slightly tighter, but still functional).  No expansion in width.  This third tank does have a couple minor stretch marks in the paint.

4.  Do you have the original tank and have had no problems with expansion? -- Original was traded for warranty tank #1.

I tried and another company tried (motowheels?). .  it was partly the startup cost and the lack of interest.  I would have needed at least 20 people willing to pay about $1500 to get it done right.  The companies  I talked to wanted $30k just to make the stamping mould.  Just to start the process, which wouldn't even include the labor to install the plumbing etc (for prototypes).  That would just make a stamper mould for the top and bottom halves.  Too much.

Two and a half years, no winter drainage, 50/50 ethanol free or 5% = no expansion and the Caswell seems to hold up well  [thumbsup]

What's the frame modification I see being mentioned?

I'm on my original tank (unless the 1st owner had it replaced, I'm not sure). It had swelled with the 2nd owner who swapped it out with a less than perfect used tank to let the original dry out and shrink back down. I don't think it has any current signs of swelling....no ripples and it looks like it fits properly around the frame and ignition. I'm lucky having Exxon stations near my home and work that have ethanol free so that's what I use 95% of the time.

Ethanol free helps a LOT  [thumbsup]

The rubber pieces between tank and frame can be adjusted a few mm and there was a bracket or two to move an expanded tank (and seat?) back and away from the ignition switch.

Well, I guess I spoke too soon. I went to upgrade my battery cables and could barely get the latch loose. Now I can't get it back on because the main part of the buckle hits the ignition trim keeping the latch from catching the hook. Dang. I used ethanol gas last weekend on a long ride. Maybe that and the warmer temps caused it to swell a little. My hinge bracket for the tank is slotted so I can move it back. Is that the bracket you're talking about? Now I just have to pull the damn tank off to loosen it and move it back a little bit.

I think it was more than the slots, but don't know for sure.

I think that the bracket was re-designed for even more rearward travel than the slots allowed in the stock bracket.

The bracket was swapped.  Last version I saw actually let the tank move on its own.

My coated tank is still going strong.  Didn't ride much over winter and left the gas in it on purpose.  very little expansion.

I still have my S2R 1000, though I did remove the tank as the fuel pump had failed (separate issue).  I was seeing minimal dimensional changes, the most notable was latching and clearing the ignition cylinder.  Since I was planning to upgrade several areas on the bike (forks, clutch) and had a Spark header & Termis, I'd like to keep the bike and enjoy it.  I was considering a metal tank - and still may do that.  It's one of the last true air cooled / dry clutch Monsters, so I have a sweet spot for it.

I've converted several bikes to steel tanks.

It's a rather expensive proposition, as very few of the tanks components will swap from the plastic to the steel.
You'll need to get an external fuel pressure regulator as well.