Ducati Monster Forum

Saw a similar article in the German news: http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/will-vw-sell-ducati-help-fund-electric-car-efforts

NOOOOO

A Chinese Ducati?!?!?

Some hyperbole-free info:

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/rumors/volkswagen-ducati-divestiture-rumor/#more-133372

Carlos posted this over in the Racing section... http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN17S23J

Latest gossip regarding this issue

http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/two-wheelers/motorcycles/royal-enfield-revving-up-to-buy-ducati/58568743

Article on same subject by Italian newspaper[google translate will do the translatation]:

http://www.dueruote.it/notizie/attualita/mercato-ducati-nel-mirino-di-royal-enfield

More on the Royal Enfield news

https://motorlands.eu/royal-enfield-ducati-brand/

I heard a rumor it was Harley Davidson [roll]

Oh please, say it's not true   :'( ^^^^

I trust HD with Ducati more than RE. HD know the kudos associated with a prestige marque. Buell was too close to what they sell but Ducati is the Ferrari to their Cadillac.
I hope Im not wrong. :P

It's all about numbers. If Harley is really a buyer for the Ducati brand, it would be in their best interest to let things be. If they try to mix Duc and Hawg...it'll taste shitty. ;D

If they leave the marques separate, it might work. They've both gone in the 'boutique' direction. Let Ducati do what they do...they're profitable right now.

All about the money.

Yeah I hope so. They could compliment each other for sure as boutique brands. HD have great experience in keeping big bore air cooled models in the range despite EPA regulations. I better write to them to ensure they bring back the 1100 motor. [laugh]

 "I better write to them to ensure they bring back the 1100 motor."

+1.  [beer]

I gotta hand it to HD for their ability to keep air cooled big twins in the line up in these times.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-ducati-m-a-idUSKBN19C1XX

No thank you.

I think a  little chrome would be a good thing.













 [puke]

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=75257.msg1383521#msg1383521

But they did such a wonderful job with MV and Buell :P

How have they done 'without' help from HD?  ;)

Buell, clearly not too awful good.  MV?  Still alive with some impressive bikes.  Their future?  No idea.

True. How many MV's do you see on the road in, I don't know, let's say a year?

I see a ton at the track.

Haven't ever seen one on the road. Their dealer network is sorely lacking.

I, for one, don't care who owns Ducati as long as they keep their booger hooks away.

Let them do what they do. Willie G must not design Ducs. :P

Harley's future isn't exactly bright right now with all the faithful aging out, hence the need to expand their market..

Oh no doubt, Willie can't give design advice. Although, I'd be willing to say the Diavel sales will increase.

Way too much of a culture clash between the two companies.  I'm sure HD's line of thinking is this is an opportunity to put their thumb on Ducati in order to retain/regain HD's market share.  Ducati pissed in HD's cheerio's with the XDiavel.

I don't buy that for a minute. Battley has been around a long time, with HD and Ducati as their main sales back in the beginning. Folks get along just fine.

http://www.battley.com/

Maybe if HD do buy Ducati all will be well on the proviso that the Diavel disappears. They then will have two boutique brands that cover the whole range of road going motorcycles. At least HD know the value of a marque and the power of a brand's history. Ducati would do well to reconnect with its history. You can still buy an old FLH ignition switch whole or in individual repair parts.

I never counted.  Not a lot unless you count repeats.  We do have three dealers who sell them in the area.  I personally know four owners, more if you count vintage.   I looked for sales statistics and came up blank. 

 So now Ducati's will have open drag pipes and ride side by side ? Probably in the long run Harley owning Ducati will be no different than being owned by Audi/VW.

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/chiflado/E6002D77-AC50-4DFC-ACEF-4E49D1104757.jpg) (http://s201.photobucket.com/user/chiflado/media/E6002D77-AC50-4DFC-ACEF-4E49D1104757.jpg.html)

HOw many Ducatis on the road vs other bikes?  Both are niche brands.

They only make 50,000 bikes per year, worldwide.  

Honda makes over 300,000 bikes per year, worldwide.

Your google-fu is lacking, glass hopper

http://www.ducati.com/news/record_sales_and_strong_growth_for_ducati/2016/01/14/4008/index.do

I believe he was referring to MV sales.

Yep.

This story is now on Reuters, WSJ, Fox. For a Second I thought this was total crap. Maybe fake news-it's just a term I'm not getting political but HD possibly buying Ducati?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-ducati-m-a-idUSKBN19C1XX

http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/06/22/report-harley-davidson-in-talks-to-buy-ducati.html

https://www.wsj.com/articles/harley-davidson-discussing-purchase-of-italian-rival-ducati-from-vw-1498231816

ah, so.

For myriad reasons I don't like HD, I don't like their bikes, and I don't like the idea of their prospective ownership of the company that makes the bikes that turn me on. I don't even like the type of people who ride Harleys. Admit it they're a buncha tools. Ducati has been passed around way too much I think. I like what they have become under VAG ownership and I would prefer they remain where they are. Ownership by HD will not be good for the brand.  [thumbsdown]

There's plenty of riders here that own both. I also know a lot of Ducati owners that are tools as well.

Absolutely!

So many tools, so few bullets.
I used to have a stupid attitude as a past Harley rider. We even scoffed at sportsters as "skirtsters". Nowdays Sportsters, particularly the KR 750, XR 750 and XR 1000 are my favorite Harleys. A good buddy has a XLH sport 1200S. Its the last of the carbed Sporties with hot cams, special ports,  hi comp pistons and dual plug heads all oem from the factory as a last hurrah similar to the 1100Evo motor as Ducati's last hurrah for big bore air cooled motors. Pretty cool bike.

Dicks all around, I'm only concerned about the management style and business focus.

Ducati is a racing team that sells motorcycles and t-shirts on the side to fund its racing team.

Harley is a public company with shareholders who want dividends.  HD sells bikes and t-shirts to pay dividends.

They have a very different philosophy.  I'm not slagging either, but they simply are not compatible.

We shall see. If they take the helm, I highly doubt it will be any different than the VW/Audi ownership.

I guess one plus is that HD are motorcycle company into motorcycles. It appears the former Audi CEO loved Ducatis but the new guy not so much.
I'm hopeful because Harley know the value of a marque, it's history and a brand's culture. I'm hoping they respect that. Surely HD is more likely to honour Ducatis history and culture than some of the others. I think the Diavel is an issue, maybe it will go. Maybe they'll rebadge the Diavel and phase out the V-Rod.  ;D Afterall, the V-Rod has a Porche designed motor so using another design isnt such a big deal.

If', if HD ends up the owner, I'd have the Diavel and the VRod sitting side by side on the showroom.  [evil]

I think HD will find it hard to justify Ducati's business model to its shareholders.

VW/Audi could do it because they are yuuuuge.  HD is not. 

I mean... VW/Audi own Bugatti which hasn't made a dime since they bought it.  No one cares.

I agree with all of that, the issue I see is that HD is a public company with shareholders and is relatively small.

HD has 175million shares outstanding at $55/share whereas Audi group has 43 mil shares outstanding at $882 per share -- and that's just Audi.  VW is the main shareholder of Audi and VW has 2.3 Billion outstanding at $30/share.

VW/Audi has a lot more wiggle room for vanity projects.

True, true. What is the reason the guys with all the extra Monopoly money are letting Ducati go?

I think it was a panic decision.  After the diesel scandal hit, VW was expected to tank hard especially after paying out the billions in the lawsuits.  So far, the damage has been controlled. 

I would not be surprised if VW decides not to sell after all.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

I think they're fishing for a sucker to overpay.

(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm276/hlep2890/19424078_10154566953246669_9071902572490920136_n_zps1jfmbagg.jpg) (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/hlep2890/media/19424078_10154566953246669_9071902572490920136_n_zps1jfmbagg.jpg.html)

 [puke]  [laugh]

The numbers I've heard sound like more blue sky than the deal warrants already. :-\

You raaaaaaang?

 [laugh]

 [laugh]

The GLW said that is a comfortable looking Ducati. ;D

From the numbers, it seems the only folk that can afford the asking price dont give a shit about bikes. Looks like it would be a stretch for HD. I would trust HD with the marque more than some of the others.
Castigionis need to make a comeback. :-\

I own both brands and value them both for different reasons.  IMO HD has a marque brand that remains intact despite the aging-out everyone talks about but instead have found plenty of 30 year old plus riders in my travels and at the dealerships.  If HD does buy them I hope they leave Ducati alone to do as they see fit to further the brand image, quality and so on.  My electra glide is a big fat pig and even so it's enjoyable although I do not ride with any "Harley" clubs but rather two  to three of my friends (groups kept complaining about my riding to fast  [laugh])  My Multi is a beast and serves my purpose perfectly when I want to ride fast and tight.  I for one don't give a shit who buys Ducati, if rumors are true, just leave the brand and design alone.  Oh and lastly I qualify as one of those "assholes" no matter which bike I'm riding.  [Dolph]

(http://i.imgur.com/oUBdvZS.jpg)

You nailed it, well, maybe not your evaluation of yourself.

Sorry Howie but my Wife stands by the "asshole" commentary and regularly.  ;D

 [laugh]

I will accept your wife's evaluation.

I read another bidder is Bain Capital.  That scares me.

C'mon Harley.

 :o

oh wonderful, expect the Domino's Pizza Edition model

Won't happen.  Ducati does not have any assets for them to scavenge.

The pension accounts in Italian companies are protected under Italian law.  Moreover, due to Italy's labor law, the employee unions have a representative on the board of all corporations.  They would never vote in favor of this unless forced to by receivership.

The reason that TPG was approved as a buyer was because they presented a business plan to get Ducati financially stable and to go public.  They did an amazing job -- nearly doubling the sales of Ducati bikes and licensing the Ducati logo for things like Tshirts and stuff (See if you can find a 1980s-early 90s ducati accessories catalogue -- it's all bike parts.  No shoes, helmets or clothes...). 

If Bain (or anyone else) wants to buy Ducati, they will have to present a plan that satisfies Italian labor law as well as satisfies the current owners (Audi).

Makes sense.  Thank you.

Why did I dream that this transaction went through last night?

In my dream, nothing notably changed after that happened.

 :-\

The Force may be strong with you. ;D

More info supporting a 'highly unlikely' conclusion:

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/harley-davidson-q2-2017-sales/#more-139133

I'd say that makes it MORE likely.

Ducati had a drop in sales from 2015 to 2016, but that has stabilized so far this year.

Harley is experiencing a drop in sales, possibly because of the bike style losing its luster. 

Companies expand their brands and products to boost revenue when one of their lines drops in sales.

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/bids-ducati/

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/rajiv-bajaj-ducati-purchase/#more-139279

^^^

Hmmm...  *Very* interesting...

Interesting. The two brands with a loyal following. Truth is we as Ducati owners know we have our own issues, but we stick with our brand, shirts, jackets, shoes etc.  Same with Harley but owners. :)

Just saw this: https://gearheads.org/ducati-bids-2017/

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/mv-agusta-black-ocean-comsar-invest/#more-139394

Any more news?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-ducati-idUSKBN1AE0S9

"Everyone who can read the VW half-year results should know: We don't need money and our subsidiaries are not up for grabs by bargain hunters."

Their huge profit may head off the sale, that and the complex mix of union and other board members voting blocks.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-ducati-m-a-exclusive/exclusive-vws-1-8-billion-ducati-sale-stalls-at-union-roadblock-strategy-rift-idUSKCN1BF25D

Last nail in the coffin:

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/ducati-not-for-sale/#more-142944