Ducati Monster Forum

A few months ago I purchased an ignition module directly from Ignitech.  The guys there sent we a unit already customised to run with a bike (1000 engine) using a hall effect sensor.  It came wired and they said it was plug and play...

I have now fitted it, but the bike will only run on the vertical cylinder?  I have loaded up and run the configuration software, and all seems OK there, but it wont fire the second plug, even when I use the test  tab.  I have swapped over the coils, and even substituted them for a pair of known good ones.

I have sent the wiring diagram to Jiri at Ignitech who has looked over the settings (i did screen shots) and has now asked me to send the ignition data file, which I have done.  They have been very responsive to emails but I guess they are away now until Monday but I really wanted it running!

any suggestions from you guys?  there seems to be a lot of experience with the ignition on here...

Here is my connection list (the terminal highlighted yellow came pre-wired)

(https://bunnyhopweb.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/wire-word.jpg)

Don`t you need 15 & 17 to make the map work?
1 vector is RPM, the other TPS.

I have 15 and 17 connected.  the software sees the TPS, and I have baselined it open and closed.  that all looks OK.

just cant get it to fire ignition one?

Bad junkyard wiring cable/cables? The right firing option in software chosen?

I have carefully checked the continuity of every cable, but will do it again just to be sure.  I have also checked the pins/ connectors and they check OK.   The cable i have used for the main wires on the ignition were either supplied or new. 

Will have a look at the software again later as i couldnt see on option for fireing

Thanks, keep the suggestions comming!

Did I say they were responsive to Emails? I take it back... no reply now for days, despite several emails asking for help/updates.

I am beginning to suspect its a faulty unit... so no support from them.

Any of you guys got an suggestions?


or even where I can buy an alternative ignition from?

I've never heard where they completely dropped the ball with a customer. I understand you're frustrated, but  try to be patient. I'm not aware of an alternative unit.

Do the software options appear like "single lobe, single pick up" or "single lobe, dual pick up" and number of cylinders for motor configuration?

I recieved the incorrect software disc once, so its worth checking the website for software downloads that suit your particular version.

Could be the incorrect engine configuration option in the software giving you the Supermono effect. No option for number of cylinders or lobes/pick ups in the scroll down?
Its possible you need another software package from their website. On more than one occasion they supplied old software requiring me to download from the website.

thanks guys, here are a couple of screen shots...

[imghttps://bunnyhopweb.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/wire-3.png]http://[/img]
(https://bunnyhopweb.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/wire-4.png)
(https://bunnyhopweb.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/wire-5.png)
(https://bunnyhopweb.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/wire-6.png)
(https://bunnyhopweb.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/wire-8.png)

Whats with the base and max advance settings for the Channel 1 & 2 boxes? Do they represent each cylinder or TPS 3D map related? I havent seen that before. They are quite different so Im unsure.

I was one of the first to fiddle w Ignitech for carbs, they do response but could take a few days and answer
a bit short. I have not worked w Ignitech f efi, fiddled w MyECU and Tunerpro.

From pics, something is wrong, that ignition map is the default for carbed ducs.
You should have a proper one w vectors TPS and RPM. Wrong software/map?
Or, in pic 2, if you choose "RPM and TPS" instead of "only RPM", do you get a proper map?

Thanks,

the company have got back to me and we have discussed what may be wrong...  I sent them the configuration file and they have bench tested this and said its OK.  They have been very helpful now we are in communication with one another.

I went back to basics with the wiring (there are only a few) and it still wont spark on the second channel using the fire facility on the test tab or turning the engine over.   Its sparking on one Chanel with the engine turning over so this kind of proves the inductive pickup is OK ( i did initially think it was a hall sensor but since found out its inductive...)

as to the maps, its basic stuff at the moment, just need to get it running and go from there.  in the past I have had good results with 3d ignitions on cars where they are running carbs.  The map below was one I developed for my old Ford Crossflow which was on twin 45 webers, it transformed the way it drove over a distributor setup.


I have sent the unit back to IgniTech today, so its a wait now to see what the guys say when they receive it back.

its on a Multistrada 1000 DS that has  been converted to carbs, so in theory getting just the ignition to work should be simple...  we will see!  I will update when I know more.

(https://jtccc.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/edis-map.jpg)

So what worked for
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=76643.0
where you posted to help should work for you then.

Easiest way to get a good map would be to get a Tunerpro registration
http://www.tunerpro.net/
and download http://motoxdf.wikia.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Tuning_XDF_Wiki for proper maps to copy.
Beware of difference 1000 & 1000DS (ignition map especially).

Thanks for that, I didn't know about that site.  is the difference between the 1000 and the 1000DS the DS has twin plug heads?

Yes.

Update...  I sent the unit back to Ignitech...  It was delivered and signed for on the 2nd Jan.

I have emailed 4 times to ask whats happening, no response, no acknowledgement, nothing.

very very poor.

So whats my alternative?  anyone got a suggestion for another company who produce a similar unit?

I've been waiting for a company to put two shotgun firing pins in the mail since Dec 20. They claim they're busy. What's my alternative...make my own. I don't have a lathe.

I'm not aware of an alternative besides building your own. As I've said, ignitech won't leave you hanging.

Where are you based?  If it’s a simple job I could probably make you a firing pin for you on my lathe…

I'm in the US. I don't think either of us want to deal with the restrictions on importation of firearm parts.

Besides...life's circumstances has taught me patience. I suggest you be the same with ignitech. They'll get it sorted.

yea, good point on the firearms parts  [laugh]

I am patient, its the complete lack of  ANY response that gets me...  A friend sent them a sales enquiry this morning, and they came right back...

I will give it a couple more days before I try to find and alternative and let people know what my experience with Ignitech has been like...  shame as I love the unit and software...

They're a small shop...two guys, I think. When they have some info I'm sure they'll get back to you.

I agree, it wouldn't be a big deal to acknowledge receipt of the unit. Good luck finding an alternative.

they have come back to me finally....  let see...

1. Confusing. Do you have an Ignitech for Hall sensor and your engine has an inductive?

2. In your first screenshot, shouldn`t "number of lobe at rotor" be 48?http://www.ignitech.cz/en/vyrobky/tcip/manual_sparker_tcip4_v88_en.pdf , on top first part.

update...

Ignitec received the unit back on the 2nd Jan.  took them till the 10th to reply to emails, but said the found nothing wrong?  said they had bench tested it.  I asked them to return it, which they did and it arrived yesterday.

today I plugged it in, connected it to the PC, and the first thing I noticed was the configuration of the unit still matched the configuration that was on the PC...  I then saved the file just to be sure i had a base file.

I then hit the start button, and it fired into life!  now in the mean time I have done nothing to the wiring on the bike...  so they must have done something, I have no idea what.  all is well that ends well though, and its running!

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Does the map you have now look exactly as in your first 3 screenshots on page 1 in this topic?
Downloaded any good DS maps?

The bike is now running, it sounds fantastic!  I balanced the carbs with the vacuum gauge.  I prefer to use a single gauge as its far more accurate…  if ever you have a bank of gauges connect them up to a single vacuum source and check they are calibrated.  most are WAY off!  with a twin I simply use a “T” piece and clamp the pipes individually with a pair of  pliers, alternating from one cylinder to the other…   the clamp in the picture is to damp the needle on the gauge.  Its a VERY accurate way of doing it…  makes a huge difference to the tick over.

Below is the initial configuration of the Ignitech ignition.  I have the original 1000 DS map and a Ducati Performance map and will take a look and compare it to the Ignitech on in the next week and post up the results.


(https://jtccc.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/vac-gauge.jpg)

(https://jtccc.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/ignition-1.jpg)

(https://jtccc.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/ignition-2.jpg)

(https://jtccc.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/ignition-4.jpg)

(https://jtccc.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/ignition-3.jpg)

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The TPS 0%/100% voltage, default or measured by you?

I wonder how much less advance the motor will like since it has twin plug heads.
Will you be playing on the dyno at all?

It was set by me.   You click the set button closed and again fully open. It appears to be linear.

Would be good to know f sure if TPS is linear or not:


(http://www.bikeboy.org/pics/tps1.JPG)

http://www.bikeboy.org/ducati2vthrottleb.html

All the 1000 maps are based on a linear TPS.

from a very quick check, its linear....

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Now we`re looking forward to the wiring layout, must be challenging f sure....

I managed to get a Ducati Performance map and popped the advance data into Excel, along with the data from the Ignitech file.  here is is in graph form.  the Ducati map has 32 points on the RPM scale that are mapped, and the ignitech 10, which I feel is plenty.  A lot of early electronic ignition bikes had two...  tick over, and full advance!  my old Jota jumped from 10 degrees at tick over, to 34 degrees at 2000 RPM!

there is an alarming blip in the Ignitech graph which may need some investigation when its on the road.  the Ducati map is what I am used to seeing on other cars I have played with.

It will be easy enough to replicate the Ducati figures into the Ignitech map though...  my mate showed me how to interpolate to match the different scales...  but I glazed over after 15 mins!!!

(https://jtccc.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/ducati-dp-map-1.jpg)

(https://jtccc.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/ducati-ignitech-map-1.jpg)

1. Second table is your converted map? Looks a bit odd , f e 30 dgrees at 2500 RPM way too much.
Those dips shouldn`t be there.
2. Your DP map, is it a DS map?

Be wary of excessive advance with twin plug heads.

I managed to get the raw data from some Ducati ECU files.  I have colour coded it to see the pattern of the values in a visual format (isn’t Excel brilliant!)  Across the top is the RPM, and down the left is the TPS values,  The lower values are throttle closed.  these follow what I would expect to see on a 3D advance map.  I hope to replicate these in the ignitech map on the bike.  Just need some decent weather to ride it!


(https://jtccc.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/1000-ds-performance-map.jpg)

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