Ducati Monster Forum

Hello, ladies and gents.

The following may seem like a basic query but I cannot for the life of me find a black and white answer to it.

Background:
My 2007 M695 has a Lambda (O2) sensor fitted. I installed a set of Dominator mufflers (Polish company, nice products, good prices. Check them out). These are far more open than the stock cans. I much prefer the way they look and they sound great. The bike runs well, in so far as there is no deceleration popping and the engine temperature never gets too high. Going by this, I can say with reasonable confidence that it's not overly lean or rich in its fuel mixture... The O2 sensor appears to be serving its intended function. I will say that I do notice "flat spots" when getting on the throttle and the bike feels a little weak at times, whereas it soars at others. As I understand it, this is normal (emissions laws, etc. etc.). So whilst the mixture may not be "overly" lean, the motor is thirsty at times.

Long story short, I want more consistent performance. Bought a K&N filter and I also have the Lonelec cable and the TuneECU Android application. Have not used either, yet.

The question:
If I flash my ECU, does the Lambda sensor need to be removed? Of course, the Lambda sensor balances the A/F ratio, but does it do this in any way based off the map that's loaded to the ECU? Essentially, is it the case that it only ever adds fuel based on the parameters determined by the map? Or does the Map only act as a "back up" should the O2 sensor be rendered inactive... So the map is irrelevant whilst there is a functioning sensor on the bike...?

In other words, will putting a different map on the ECU be useless as long as the O2 sensor is present?

To name an example: As I understand it, the Ducati Performance upgrade eliminated the Lambda sensor, so I am assuming removal is necessary.

Really appreciate any thoughts or experiences with similar issues.

I must admit, I do feel a sense of guilt opening my third thread; I feel like I'm only looking for help without being able to contribute much else. One day I hope to have a strong enough understanding to be able to answer questions for others.

To add to the above, I found this information which I have seen elsewhere, too:

"The stock O2 sensor is an emissions compliant component that keeps the vehicle running at 14.7 AFR (which is lean) only during light engine load conditions. The O2 sensor makes the vehicle run lean during idle, low RPM and steady cruise. The O2 sensor does not function under engine load (acceleration & full throttle)."

So I presume that an ECU Flash WOULD have some benefit in all other scenarios.

Just exhaust on your bike does not make a big difference.  Open the air box and lean becomes a big problem.  If I remember correctly on your bike closed loop is up to 15% throttle and I forget what RPM. 

Unfortunately I have no knowledge of the Lonelec cable or TuneECU app.

I ran into a similar issue when wanting to reduce the deceleration pops on my M696. After digging into how to tune it differently, I ran into the same problem—easy to tune in the open feedback mode of acceleration or WOT, but difficult to tune in the closed feedback mode of cruising or idle.

The closest I found was a power commander v setup, but the older one that came with the O2 optimizers, that attempt to address both feedback modes.  I bought one and it was too new, only had the PCV box, not the optimizers. Found an older one through an online vendor and snapped it up, as they seem to not offer them anymore (EPA probably came down on them.)

Others will know more than I on how explicitly the PCV+O2 optimizers will address the closed feedback loop issue, but I’m happy to post once I install mine here in a few weeks. I just want a smoother throttle response, and unlike many others, I don’t prefer the pops out of the Termis. 

http://www.fatduc.com/

Hey, thanks for your response! Funnily enough, I emailed the guys at FatDuc a while ago. I was wondering if the implementation of their solution would cause my engine light to come (and stay) on. I didn't hear back so I dismissed that possibility. Maybe I should read into it again.
TuneECU seems a great solution, you can take a look http://www.tuneecu.com/
Lonelec essentially make a cable to connect to (most) kinds of bikes. They do not make any software themselves.

I learned that the breathability of a more open filter would only help performance with some form of tuning (I made a previous bike run horribly by failing to do this, many years ago. Haha)

At the moment, I just don't know how the O2 sensor plays into it.
Am I correct in thinking that the ECU flash would therefore be of benefit at more than >15% throttle and outside the parameters of the closed-loop RPM?

Hi, thank you for taking the time to write me a reply, much appreciated. I've used a PCV on other bikes in the past but the 695 is one of the few that Dynojet did not make a unit for. I do rate them very highly normally but not possible for my current scoot, I'm afraid.

I don't know if you're at all familiar with the companies I mentioned (I linked them above in my response to howie), but essentially using that method seems a workable (and far less expensive) alternative to the Dynojet gear. The Android application and the cable cost me around 20 euros in total. The downside is that the maps available are nowhere near as many as for the PCIII + PCV. I forgot to mention, this setup doesn't remain connected to the bike, it's just a method by which you can flash the stock ECU. Also, it works as a diagnostics tool and lets you reset error messages etc. I recommend getting one just for that purpose.

I don't have the issue of decel. pop at the moment, thankfully. Am I understanding you correctly in saying that your tune (with O2 sensors as stock) did help performance, just not at idle and under deceleration?

If that's the case, I can just load up my map and keep the O2 sensors as they are, which would be perfect.

I installed on on my '07 695. It plugs inline and causes no engine light. Their FAQ pretty much hits everything else: http://www.fatduc.com/faq.html

Using the little dial/trimmer, you can go more rich or more lean. If you feel your mix is good now, and you're looking for more 'tune-ability' the Fatduc will be of little benefit.

Hey, d3vi@nt. That's great, thanks a lot. I may consider picking one up after all if this TuneEcu thing doesn't appear to work well with my O2 sensors. I appreciate the input!

I haven’t added the PCV nor the O2 optimizers yet to my bike. Hopefully very soon. I do have the Termi full exhaust and the Ducati Performance ECU installed though, and it definitely feels more performant than my Scrambler 696 with bone stock ECU.

Once I install the system I plan to take it down to get dyno’ed to get it all dialed in on the highest performance out of this bike.  I’ll post my results after.


Yeah you can totally do that. That’s what the post-O2-Optimizer-PCVs do, and sounds like what your system would also do.  Too bad PCV isn’t available for the 695,  but sounds like you’ve got a plan!

Thanks for your input! Great, I haven't tuned her up yet but I think I'll have time tonight so I will let you all know how it turns out! I'm pretty happy with this cheap solution (on paper), everything I have seen and read looks great.

Please let me know how the dyno tune works out for you! :)

How did your tuning work out?

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=655.0

If you haven't yet, have a good read of this. [thumbsup]
Let us know how you go with your plan.