Clip ons, benefits/disadvantages?

[Brandovibe]

Hello all,

My 2007 S4RS is my first road bike that has handlebars as opposed to clip ons. On one of my first long rides in some twisties the other day i noticed that the bike is very twitchy. I think it's because the bars are so wide and any tiny input is amplified. Even in a straight line at any speed over 120mph, just shifting gears hard makes the bike wobble.

Im sure i could get used to it eventually but was wondering if clip ons would make a difference. Are they usually shorter and therefor less leverage than the stock bars or is the monster justa  very twitchy bike and the bars have nothing to do with it? Are the clip ons just for the look and have no bearing on steering inputs? Please help, i have a hard time keeping up with my jap bike riding buddies on fast rides because of my fear of a tank slapper!
If you think clip ons could help, which do you recommend?


Thanks!

[ICON]

This is what I am running and you can check my flickr page to see it.

Matris damper, Full Ohlins with replaced springs for "my" weight. Speedymoto Superbike clip-ons with a rise to them. Raised 5 threads on both ends of the height-ride-rod. 14tooth sprocket for more torque.

Since my suspension is dialed in oh-so-sweet I'm only running 2 clicks of my damper. I ride her very hard and never worry about wobbles in the canyons. I also eat Jap bikes for breakfast.  [moto]


Now, my S2R1000 is a bit scary. Front end is high since my springs are stock with stock bars. I get the wobble at high speeds and have less confidence giving her throttle out of the turn.

Buy some clipons, raise the rear and add a damper. If your over 200 I recommend some new springs all around. Good luck brother. 

[stopintime]

I went from stock bars, on 20mm risers, to Swatt 3.5 inch riser clip ons. Even with the 3.5 inch riser, the base of my grips are now two inches lower than stock bars.
The point is that before this mod I was struggling, just like you do - same symptoms. After switching to clip ons I'm able to follow the 1098/999 guys in the twisties. To ride fast I have to lean forward, look through the turn and point my head and torso in the same direction. When I do that, my Monster turns into a superbike, willing and able
You can raise the rear, lower the front and switch to clip ons - it all makes the bike turn more willingly - up to a point where a steering damper almost becomes a requirement.
I wouldn't suggest these mods to a beginner, but if you have some skills you'll just enjoy the result. 

[corndog67]

If you raise the rear, the steering is going to become twitchier. Is that a word?   It speeds up the steering.  Same with dropping the front. The  wide bars can contribute to the twitchyness by you putting in more steering inputs with less effort.  A steering damper would help immensely, I've got wide bars (dirt bike bars actually), that I really like, especially around town, and it is a twitchy son of a b_tch, especially at speed.    I lighten up on the input by not hanging on so tight.   I'd like to put an Ohlins damper on there, but I don't want to spend the money right now.  As for keeping up with the Japanese  big bores, I can run with them up to about 120-130, and then I'm topped out anyway.   And I'm not going to jail again for speeding.   Just revel in the fact that you can stuff it underneath them going into corners, and then torque on them coming out.   Of course, at really high speeds, they are going to go by, but make them work for it.

Clip ons make my back hurt.

[sbrguy]

remember where clip on originated from.. race/track bikes.

for me personally, clip ons are extremely painful to use in the wrong environment. 

however, wheni finally rode a supersport bike with clip ons when it was just tooling around, it sucked...but on a track and in a tuck position for turning and such, it made perfect sense and was completely comfortable, made steering input easy stable, etc.  but when not at the track or turning like on a track it was horrible.

[Brandovibe]

Thanks all, i appreciate all of the input....
I was telling a friend about the wobbling and he seems to think that i have the suspension too loose, he said the bike felt spongey.

just today i noticed that at only 80 MPH the front end seems to wander around even with NO input on the bars from me. Then the slightest input on those wide ass bars and it darts left or right. One of the reasons i bought this bike was for the somewhat upright seating position, and i know the clip ons will defeat that, plus then i guess i would need rearsets to balance it all out?  Im going to mess with a few things and see where that takes me. Again i really appreciate everyones input, this forum is great!!

PS: now i just need to learn how to post pics on here, anyone?

[Qwack]

to post put :


that is it...ps:  I don't do speeds of 120mph generally...but on the hwy, I'll cruise at around 80mph and I haven't really noticed the wobble or twitching you talk about I use stock bars with risers to bring the bars up a bit and foward..

I have clip-ons on my track bike where they belong

Good luck.

[Drunken Monkey]

PS: now i just need to learn how to post pics on here, anyone?

If only there was a FAQ!

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=109.0 

I kept wafflling on the clip-on / no clip on question. Eventually I gave up and got adjustable bars.

And I've seen all sorts of wobbles caused by all sorts of things. Suspension too loose is a big one for slow oscillations, for quicker ones it can be caused by bad steering head bearings. Then again, it can also be caused by having unevenly worn tires too (Did I mention it's a complex problem?)

One good way to mask the issue is to get a steering damper. It doesn't cure the problem (which you should still try and track down) but it can prevent the problem from turning into a tankslapper.

I used to use one, until I finally solved all my handling gremlins and I eventually got rid of it.

[EEL]

So this is probably a dumb question but does the wobble only happen in one spot or anytime you go above 80 mph?

The reason I ask is may new roads are gooved to provide additional wet weather traction. Some tire thread patters will "resonate" at specific speeds.

Also, are your tires really new or really worn out? (especially your front). Check tire pressure while you're at it. Cross out the simple items first.

Making sure your axle is seated properly also helps.

[Lars D]

I would first set the preload on the front and rear as if that isn't done it really doesn't matter what parts are thrown at it, the bike will continue to do the same.

[Brandovibe]

Thanks again everyone for all of the great responses and inputs.

The tires and the bike are brand new, so they aren't worn.

I did check the tire pressures and even varied them a few pounds in either direction so see if it changed it at all, it did not.

It is at all speeds at around 80 and above. its a gentle wandering at 80mph and gets scarier and twitchier as speeds increase.

Its definitly not the roads.

Havent messed with suspension settings at all yet, thats where im going next to see how that changes things.

Im a little intimidated trying to dial in the suspension since there are three things to adjust in the front and rear. Are there any good threads on here that explain a little how to set up a bike for your weight and riding style?

Thanks again!

[mojo]

If it was me, I would go to an experienced suspension shop or the dealer.  Can't imagine it would cost too much, unless re-springing is required for your weight.  I am mechanically inclined, but, with something as important as suspension setup...it's not something I'm willing to try myself since there is a chance I could get myself hurt.

[rockaduc]

Most good shops will do for you for about $40.  Probably the best $40 you could spend on your bike.

[Brandovibe]

Yes i would agree that it would be well worth $40 to be dialed in right......