PC V: 696 but not 695. wtf?

[NORCAL510]

Basically subject says it all...

Does anyone think when it's released the PowerCommander V designed for the 696 will be usable on the 695?

Or should i just say F'it and get my 848? LOL

[rule62]

The FI electronics are totally different between the 2 bikes, so I wouldn't think the PC V would be interchangeable between them. 

[Raux]

the 695 uses the old MM ECU, the 696 uses the Siemens ECU
i doubt it's compatible, but ask. they are nice guys and answer emails fast.

[battlecry]

Don't know why different ECUs would matter.  The PCIIIUSB connects to the injectors, ground, and ignition trigger.  Doesn't need much to stretch or cut short the injector pulse.  I can see differences between full open loop systems and closed loop systems, but even then I thought that the O2 sensors of closed loop systems produced pretty much the same voltage signal range. 

Not familiar with the 695 and 696.  Are they both closed loop systems?

[ducpainter]

Don't know why different ECUs would matter.  The PCIIIUSB connects to the injectors, ground, and ignition trigger.  Doesn't need much to stretch or cut short the injector pulse.  I can see differences between full open loop systems and closed loop systems, but even then I thought that the O2 sensors of closed loop systems produced pretty much the same voltage signal range. 

Not familiar with the 695 and 696.  Are they both closed loop systems?

They both have lambda sensors.

The main reason I can think of not being able to utilize the same PC between ecu manus is the connectors. Do you really think Siemens and MM would use common connectors?

[battlecry]

Don't know, DP.  PCIII bike specificity is given by the fuel injector connector, the length of the cables, and the firmware.  Don't they all use the same Bosch connectors at the fuel injectors?    The TPS signal is just a wire tap, and the ground can be anything.  Just like you can shoehorn a PCIII from one Ducati model to another (M800 to M1000, for instance) if you are willing to splice cables and remap, you may be able to do so with the PCVs if Dynojet does not yet market an application for your bike.     

[ducpainter]

Don't know, DP.  PCIII bike specificity is given by the fuel injector connector, the length of the cables, and the firmware.  Don't they all use the same Bosch connectors at the fuel injectors?    The TPS signal is just a wire tap, and the ground can be anything.  Just like you can shoehorn a PCIII from one Ducati model to another (M800 to M1000, for instance) if you are willing to splice cables and remap, you may be able to do so with the PCVs if Dynojet does not yet market an application for your bike.     

I don't know.

I assumed it plugged into the ecu somehow.

[scott_araujo]

I think the PCIII does tap into the ECU to read the throttle position and RPM.  That's how it knows how much to add/subtract.  It's not just reading the pulse width.  I think this is why you can't use the PCIII and VDSTS at the same time, they both tap into the ECU plug.

Our FI systems (without O2 sensors) work on a simple 2D map of a pulse width based on the combination of throttle angle and RPM.  The PCIII creates an overlay of values to add or subtract to every cell in that map.  You can potentially have the same pulse width at two points in the stock map, but you wouldn't necessarily want to add the same amount at both places when retuning with a PCIII.

Read Brad Black's explanation on how FI works.  It's two papers in total and a little dense but well worth digesting.

Scott

[battlecry]

Scott, I was just using both the PCIIIUSB and the VDSTS on my M800Sie at the same time half an hour ago.  Ran like crap this morning and was checking/resetting the TPS and loading an older map.  It is probably the old gas; sometimes even Seafoam can't save you from winter.

The PCIIIUSB does not tap into the ECU at all.  It get power and pulse/timing info from the injector current pulse and throttle info from a TPS wire tap.  That's all.  It's a pretty clever design, timing is reconstructed in the software.  Only thing that worries me a little about it is that the board handles very high current signals.  I had two early units fail on me but this one has been working fine for a few years.

Technoresearch's VDSTS does tap into the ECU signals through the data bus connector.  The PCIIIUSB doesn't know how to read the ECU bus serial data.

[scott_araujo]

I stand corrected   Thanks for letting me know about that.

I could swear I've read many times that you can't use the two together.  Maybe it's just a thing where they don't want to be blamed if one zaps the other.

Scott