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Did not stabilize fuel ...

Started by ducaki, March 05, 2010, 07:13:48 PM

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ducatiz

#15
March 09, 2010, 03:45:12 AM
Quote from: battlecry on March 09, 2010, 03:25:15 AM
"The larger the volume of fuel the less chance of an issue with degradation. I make sure my bikes are topped off, drain the bowls if it's carbed, and leave it at that."

The alcohol in E10 gas will seek water from the air through the tank vent.  And then, even if you remove the water, you take away the alcohol and drop the octane level.  Bad thing all around.     

Yup.  The greater the volume of gas = greater rate of moisture wicking by the alcohol. 

If you are going to store your bike with a tank of gas, you have to use a stabilizer with E10 protection.  Using a full tank of gas just means you'll have more water in the tank when you go to start it.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Howie

#16
March 09, 2010, 04:07:04 AM
The E10 is less of a problem in cars because the EVAP system.  Since our bike systems are usually missing or, at best partially open they are more  of a problem.  E10 =  [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]

ducatiz

#17
March 09, 2010, 04:35:20 AM
Quote from: howie on March 09, 2010, 04:07:04 AM
The E10 is less of a problem in cars because the EVAP system.  Since our bike systems are usually missing or, at best partially open they are more  of a problem.  E10 =  [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]

the stock evap emissions setup on a Ducati introduces a negative pressure into the gas tank to suck the fumes away.

when you turn off the engine, the system stops and the tanks is briefly left with a vacuum -- which is then quickly filled with atmosphere (and any humidity therein).

removing the evap system removes the vacuum source from the tank and the volatile nature of gas means the fumes expand and create a positive pressure inside the tank -- which is then vented.

Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

battlecry

#18
March 09, 2010, 05:08:35 AM
That is true Ducatiz, but the tank vented all the time through the tank drain hose.  I don't think the tank is sealed, so with the engine running, the evap system sucks a mix of tank fuel vapors and outside air coming in through the drain hose, bringing the moisture into the tank for the E10 to munch on.

So the way to ensure the evap system and E10 work together while protecting our engines is to never turn the ignition switch on.

ducatiz

#19
March 09, 2010, 05:11:38 AM
Quote from: battlecry on March 09, 2010, 05:08:35 AM
That is true Ducatiz, but the tank vented all the time through the tank drain hose.  I don't think the tank is sealed, so with the engine running, the evap system sucks a mix of tank fuel vapors and outside air coming in through the drain hose, bringing the moisture into the tank for the E10 to munch on.

So the way to ensure the evap system and E10 work together while protecting our engines is to never turn the ignition switch on.

nope, just remove the evap system (unless you live in California).  the fume expansion of gasoline will create positive pressure and prevent atmosphere from coming in.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

ducpainter

#20
March 09, 2010, 05:29:11 AM
Warming and cooling of the fuel will create a positive...then negative pressure scenario.

Atmosphere will introduce itself to the fuel.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


ducatiz

#21
March 09, 2010, 05:49:05 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on March 09, 2010, 05:29:11 AM
Warming and cooling of the fuel will create a positive...then negative pressure scenario.

Atmosphere will introduce itself to the fuel.

good point. totally forgot about Boyle's law...  :-/
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

jwoconnor

#22
March 09, 2010, 04:42:42 PM
Quote from: ducatiz on March 09, 2010, 03:45:12 AM
Using a full tank of gas just means you'll have more water in the tank when you go to start it.

Never had a problem. In the midwest we can still get fuel without ethanol.
2007 BMW R1200GS Adventure
2006 S2R1000

ducatiz

#23
March 09, 2010, 04:46:51 PM
Quote from: jwoconnor on March 09, 2010, 04:42:42 PM
Never had a problem. In the midwest we can still get fuel without ethanol.

Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

ducpainter

#24
March 09, 2010, 05:21:30 PM
Quote from: jwoconnor on March 09, 2010, 04:42:42 PM
Never had a problem. In the midwest we can still get fuel without ethanol.
Good luck when you can't. ;D
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


jwoconnor

#25
March 09, 2010, 05:46:48 PM
2007 BMW R1200GS Adventure
2006 S2R1000

jwoconnor

#26
March 09, 2010, 05:49:01 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on March 09, 2010, 05:21:30 PM
Good luck when you can't. ;D

We grow the corn so we can send the shit gas to the rest of you guys  [moto]
2007 BMW R1200GS Adventure
2006 S2R1000

ducpainter

#27
March 09, 2010, 05:54:01 PM
Quote from: jwoconnor on March 09, 2010, 05:49:01 PM
We grow the corn so we can send the shit gas to the rest of you guys  [moto]
Quote from: jwoconnor on March 09, 2010, 05:46:48 PM
Oh, I'm sorry!  [cheeky]
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


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