oil level rises overnight?

Started by Teutonics, September 15, 2010, 04:50:17 AM

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Teutonics

Quote from: humorless dp on September 15, 2010, 08:24:56 AM
The oil level will change with a variance in level front to rear.
Yes, but it is a constant.  The bike stays on the center stand, so is not the source of the issue. 
Atlanta, GA - 2002 M900ie

ducpainter

Quote from: Teutonics on September 15, 2010, 08:29:35 AM
Yes, but it is a constant.  The bike stays on the center stand, so is not the source of the issue. 
I agree.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."



Howie

I figured you were checking on the center stand all the time, but I threw that in just in case.  Yes the variance is small.  Did you smell the crankcase for gas?  You could have a leaking injector.

battlecry

Here is some related wisdom from the late George Morrison:

battlecry:
Concerned about oil dilution. Checked the bike today and it looked like there was more oil than I thought I put in. So I siphoned out about 300cc of oil and have it set aside. I'd like to see if it is gas (rich mix) or I messed up the refill. Will the gas stratify out of the oil? Will it evaporate out? Any way to tell besides smelling it? Bike runs fine and plugs do not indicate a rich mixture.

Georgecls:
No, if gasoline is present it will not "settle out" or give any indication other than odor. There will be no "visible" indicator. You could have the engine oil analyized at a lab and the results will indicate positively if gasoline is or is not present in the oil. Cost of analysis is generally around $20; the oil analysis results will also provide levels of wear metals, additive treat levels, viscosity, etc.
And yes, if one does have an injector weeping badly, it will end up in the oil indicated as increased volume. The problem is that the excess gasoline washes down the cylinder wall, greatly increasing ring, piston and cylinder wall wear rates.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

battlecry:
Thanks for the reply, George. I had a thought that if I heat up the beaker gently with a light bulb for a few days I'd be able to tell by the reduced volume if it was fuel dilution. It probably is oil drain from the oil cooler but I'll keep an eye out for it.

Georgecls:
Once the fuel gets into chemical solution with engine oil, it is difficult to release from the oil.* It would be extremely rare to have any level of engine oil increase related to fuel dilution without the engine exhibiting some sort of corresponding symptom...* *As in big time roughness, inability ro idle, etc..* It would definitely not be a smooth running Ducati engine...* Small amounts of fuel dilution are normal; however, oil level changes would be undetectable..
George Morrison

WTSDS

Mine does exactly the same as yours when the weather is cold and it's filled to high level mark.Not so obvious when filled to low mark or midway. I have a centrestand.

I presume that the alloy cases shrink a bit when cold causing the oil level to rise.

Leaky injectors ? ? ?  That's utter nonsense, once the ignition is switched off the pressure in the lines drops to zero.
2000 Monster Dark 900 ie   Stock except for low Staintunes and a centrestand. 15:39 sprockets make for excellent highway gearing

ducpainter

Quote from: WTSDS on September 16, 2010, 03:16:47 AM
Mine does exactly the same as yours when the weather is cold and it's filled to high level mark.Not so obvious when filled to low mark or midway. I have a centrestand.

I presume that the alloy cases shrink a bit when cold causing the oil level to rise.

Leaky injectors ? ? ?  That's utter nonsense, once the ignition is switched off the pressure in the lines drops to zero.
The thought that the cases shrink enough to raise the oil level seems as far fetched to me.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."



battlecry

The spring in the pressure regulator keeps the fuel rail at 3 bar until it leaks down at the pump or at a leaky injector.

Be careful when working on your bike, WTSDS.  

ducpainter

The OP claims there is no fuel smell from the cases.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."



WTSDS

So assuming a really, really badly leaking injector how much fuel would leak out before the pressure drops to zero after the pump stops, maybe a whole ml. ?  Hardly enough to raise the oil level.

2000 Monster Dark 900 ie   Stock except for low Staintunes and a centrestand. 15:39 sprockets make for excellent highway gearing

Teutonics

It is definitely not gas.  The overfill goes away after warming up the engine and re-checking.  The next day it shows over-full.  Warm it up again and level shows normal on shut down.
Atlanta, GA - 2002 M900ie

ducpainter

#25
Quote from: WTSDS on September 16, 2010, 03:38:28 AM
So assuming a really, really badly leaking injector how much fuel would leak out before the pressure drops to zero after the pump stops, maybe a whole ml. ?  Hardly enough to raise the oil level.


fuel injectors can flow hundreds of ml/min...don't have a spec for the Duc specifically. The point is it's not as far fetched as you think.

good info on Duc flow rates here...http://www.robsdyno.com/injectors.htm

Quote from: Teutonics on September 16, 2010, 03:43:18 AM
It is definitely not gas.  The overfill goes away after warming up the engine and re-checking.  The next day it shows over-full.  Warm it up again and level shows normal on shut down.
How long are you waiting after shut down to re-check?
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."



csp808

I've heard condensation can build up to the point it will alter the oil level slightly. When you restart the engine are you letting it get warm enough to vaporize any water? I've never seen it happen and dismissed it as a text book engineer's paranoia but your situation seems strange

stopintime

I don't know, but there is some oil in the crank case breather tank, which will return after "a while". If it's enough to mean anything - beyond me.
252,000 km/seventeen years - loving it