The really vague suspension thread

[brad black]

they look like the old 40mm marzocchi - are you sure it's a 99 model?  take a photo of the outside of the fork leg showing the axle and brakes.  in short they're crap.  there is no cartridge, just old style damping in an insert as far as i can tell that is held inside the tube.  you can get it out by removing the loever section (alloy bit that holds the caliper, axle, etc) and then machine off the rolled edge that holds them in, but it's not worth the effort.  they have practically no compression damping until the last 1/3 of travel.  the std springs are dual rate (not progressive) and the soft bit is all lost in the sag, so you get a shit load of sag then an overly hard spring.

you can respring them, but they'll still dive a lot with the right weight springs.  i wouldn't bother with them personally.  i wouldn't bother getting a set of adjustable showas either, as you're paying for the adjustability that you'll probably never use in practical.  and they need to be resprung and revalved too, they're not that nice std.  plus they're the cheaper showa where the adjustable rebound system is poorly designed.  the good showa - from the sbk models - need different triple clamps.

my 97 600m had the marzocchi which i tried resprining, but the dive still shitted me so i fitted some non adj 41mm showa from an early 900 monster, same as the early 750ss.  not sure how easy they are to get now.  there seems to be a lot of 43mm showa from later 600, 620, 750 and 800m on ebay fairly cheap that are a good basis for reworking.  i sent my cartridges out for revalving and cut down some original springs i had to give a 0.85 rate (from memory) because i have all the stuff, but even buying some and sending them off to a suspension expert for a respring and revalve is a good idea, as then you're just swapping forks when you get them back.

if the person doing the revalving does a good job there's no need for adjustment unless you're going to combine rough road riding with fast track work.  a well set up shim stack is a well set up shim stack, and it'll perform well in most conditions.  some dealers have guys who are suspension experts, but not many, and there's plenty of companies that only do suspension.  i don't do any revalving myself, i send it all out as it's an area of expertise all its own.

getting the shock resprung and rebuilt will also help - you could even buy another from ebay, send it out and get it done so then you can do both ends as a simple swap, no down time required.  just a thought.

[Timmy Tucker]

According to the title, it's a '99. I'll try to grab another pic of the forks in the AM.

What you described above is my main issue, the excessive front end dive. Anything other than the lightest 1 finger front brake action, and it burns up what seems like 3/4's of the forks' travel.

[Cloner]

I think Ducati used the 40mm Marzocchi units for all 750 Monsters from '98 through '01, so Brad's description is probably correct.  I think they can be interchanged with both adjustable and non-adjustable Showas without changing the triples, though I'm not sure about the axles on the Marzocchis.  I mentioned the adjustable Showas because they seem to come up for sale pretty often, whereas the non-adjustables, which are definitely just as good a starting point since both need to be revalved, aren't as common for some reason in the States....at least in my memory.

External adjustments are nice, but are absolutely unnecessary for a street bike. 

I'm always amused when I see a bike sitting at the local hangout with knobs on the fork caps for "on the fly" rebound adjustments.  Why??  I can imagine some 8 year old kid climbing up on that bike in the parking lot and playing with the knobs for his personal amusement.  "Let's turn this one all the way to the right....and this one all the way to the left.  There.  Perfect!!!"

Since Brad also mentioned spring types (dual rate versus progressive versus straight rate), I prefer straight rate springs.  They don't offer the smoothest possible ride, but I think they perform better.  As a fat man on a little bike I want all the spring I can get.

I won't discount Brad's opinion about suspension rework, either.  I generally do my own fork work unless there's machining to be done, but I don't dig into shocks.  Again, I'd recommend the folks at RaceTech out in California from personal experience.  However, Lindeman, Thermosman (REALLY close to you in Hendersonville, NC), Traxxion Dynamics (they're close to you, too, just outside of Atlanta) and several others also have good reputations, so shop around and get the service you feel most comfortable with.  Some folks swear by Thermosman, so maybe you should check him out.  770.500.6445  He's also a (the??) US distributor for Ohlins aftermarket bits!

[junior varsity]

i've got a spare set of 3-way adjustable Showa forks from a 99 Monster.

These are the 41U's, has the solid 20mm front axle, 40mm caliper mounts. Standard Monster forks, so your normal 50/54mm outer diameter, goes right in your triple clamp no big deal. Cosmetically: C- (faded in areas, some scratches).

They can be yours for dirty cheap. Need to be rebuilt though - needs springs for your weight, needs oil and seals, would benefit from RaceTech or Traxxion Internals.

I even have an extra bottle of racetech fork oil if you want that too.

[Roaduser]

If you look on the inside of the lower legs there will be an S cast in if it's Showa.

I've heard that the hex on the top is 17 or 19mm on Showa with Marzocchi being more like 28mm.

Race-tech has a good selection of springs for both, and other internal mods for Showa

my bike is an 03 m800 and appears to have a "960" and "ScF" in the base of the fork. what make are these? thanx in advance for the help.

Cheers Clint

[Roaduser]

well im 90% sure mine are showas now. its not as easy to find an answer as i expected. the local Ducati dealer spent a good 1/2hr looking and called me back with his and the other guys in the shops thoughts but no definite answer. but a coupla local suspension shops were also leaning towards showa aswell with some decent reasons so thats good enough for me.

Thanx anyway for alerting me to the possibility guys.

[ducpainter]

my bike is an 03 m800 and appears to have a "960" and "ScF" in the base of the fork. what make are these? thanx in advance for the help.

Cheers Clint

M800 used Marzocchi.

[Mozella]

If you think you have the mechanical skill to remove the forks, you most likely have the skills (and tools) to tear into them as long as you simply want to change the springs and/or fork oil.

I just put springs in my 2009 Monster 696 and I'm too lazy to find out if your particular bike has similar (primitive) forks.  I was put off at first after learning what "special" tools are required.  But in fact, you don't need anything special.

The tool to hold my preload tube out of the way while I removed the fork cap is something I didn't even need.  But making one out of an appropriately sized washer by hack-sawing a slot to allow it to fit over the damper tube is easy enough to do.  I actually made one but didn't use it.

That's because rather than compressing the preload tube using a special tool or a home-made equivalent, I used a pair of ratchet binder straps.  The ones I have are relatively small.  Just fasten one end at the bottom of the fork and put the hook into the hole in the side of the preload tube.  Do the same with a second ratchet strap on the other side of the fork using the second hole.  Then alternatively tighten the two straps to pull down the preload tube against the spring far enough to access the lock nut on the damper rod.

Now removing the fork cap is a piece of cake using the wrenches you already own.  Then slowly release the binder straps.  The preload is not high enough to be frightening and you can overcome it with hand pressure, so injury or disaster is unlikely.  RNING: If your forks are not like the ones on the 696, ignore this advice.  I'll leave it to you to do the appropriate research.

Forr the rear shock you need to consider that the existing spring is MUCH stronger and must be compressed significantly in order to remove the little slotted spring keeper.  Of course, releasing the spring tension must be done in a controlled way.  That's why a suitable spring compressor is a good idea.  You're dealing with something which could really hurt you if you screw this up and let the spring get away from you.  Installing a stronger spring on the stock shock is also potentially dangerous. 

However, if you get the shock off the bike and walk into any good motorcycle shop with both your old shock and new spring in hand, you should be able to leave in a few minutes with a shop charge WAY less than the cost of buying a spring compressor.  You wont' get hurt or embarrassed.

I can say that a front and rear spring change on my Monster 696 made a real difference and the cost was low.