gathering mat'ls / prep for head swap (900 era)

[junior varsity]

Gotcha.

Not sure yet - just getting a feeler for what is involved and looking at budget as well as time constraints. I have some 94mm JE's that I got from Chris at CA-Cycleworks a bit ago, but those were for my M900, not this project.  I see that he's discontinued carrying either the 92mm or 94mm JE kits now.  FBF still lists it though, and I've seen Pistal listed as well (but obviously with a big price premium).

[Speeddog]

I was going to respond to the quoted material in this post:
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=46643.msg847413#msg847413
But there was so much wrong there it's not worth picking out the little bit of 'right'.

Executive summary on 'drop-in' pistons:

If the total weight of the piston assembly (pistons, rings, pins, and pin clips) is the same as the stock stuff, the balance won't change.

Whether or not it was correct when it came out of the factory is debatable.

[junior varsity]

Cool.

[monstermick58]

I'm keeping a close eye on this a m,

It's very close to the upcoming project that I will be doing

Keep the posts coming 






                                 Mmick

[greenmonster]

I`d dremel out casting burrs & the little knee at cyl side in the carb inlets.
Adds a little smoothness.

Besides headswap,
fresh fuel pump or renovate kit cause diaphragms soon to be old, causing irritating problems.
Definitale new gas lines, esp the short tank-filter, collapses over time.
Check wiring around steering stem, often wear & shorts there.

[junior varsity]

Good stuff - I will go back over that as a checklist. I have done this so far:

From steel tank: New fuel lines - new fuel filter - new fuel lines - manual petcock (pingel) - new fuel lines - new rectangle shaped vacuum fuel pump (mikuni) [new vacuum line] - new fuel line to carbs. (I also pulled the carbs, and tried to perform a thorough cleaning).

So that should take care of fuel. I plugged vacuum port that used to power vacuum petcock with just a vacuum nipple cover. I think that's not the best solution and have thought about plugging with crush washer and bolt as I had done on my existing M900. If the simple nipple cover will work though, do let me know somebody.

Modified airbox to fit around FCRs, got new airfilter, found my Ferracci airbox ring and the snap-clips for airbox.
Always liked the look of high pipes, but also loved the NCR/Sil low pipes on my bike... This one got high mount arrows. No changes to header so far, and likely the only change will be to ceramic coat it and the intake manifolds. (Did put on billet mh900e style flanges that I had on the shelf unused since I put the sil headers on my bike).
--

For ignition  - new spark plugs, new spark plug wires, and CA-Cycleworks Exact-Fit Coils. Using OEM kokusan igniters currently that came with it (and i have a spare set from my bike on the shelf). I was able to find some DP igniter boxes from an out-of-business dealer that I could put on there later, but first I would like to see if it will start, and later I would like to test ride to make sure it does not exhibit any bad steering characteristics.

--

For chassis & suspension - I replaced the blown rear shock with Ohlins w/ remote reservoir. Replaced beautiful aluminum swingarm with black powdercoated steel one & new sprocket carrier - lug on sprocket carrier had machined deep grooves into aluminum swingarm and were partially hidden when assembled... Supposedly I have a billet suspension hoop coming too, but that is not necessary obviously. The front got the heavier-springed, race-tech revalved OEM 3-way Monster showas that were originally on my Monster (the forks on the bike had blown seal on one, and would nearly bottom out with only my arms pushing down, then again, i am a large mammal). I had the stock monster bore diameter IMA triples that I put on then also which gave me time to replace steering head bearings. i replaced the bent front wheel with one from ebay that is also less cosmetically challenged. still oem 3-spoke brembos, 20mm front axle, 17mm rear axle.

--

For clutch & brakes - i put on the sbk style oem Brembo radial masters and scored some folding levers (PSR) off ebay. I put M1100 brake and clutch lines on since they are both braided and with appropriate fittings for radial pumps. I have the brembo goldline calipers currently on there (originally on my bike since I know their history and maintenance - the ones on the bike bled almost opaque brown dirty fluid), but am giving an overhaul to the GP 30/34 billet 2-piece calipers. Same piston sizes as the goldlines but no dust seals for better retraction, and in billet for more stiffness. I put on new rotors as well since the oem brembo swiss cheese rotors are heavier, these had some odd scoring, used with unknown pads, were on the bent wheel, and not floating. (wanted a fresh start all around). Rear rotor has not been changed, but has lots of grooves in it, so I do want to spend the hundred or so dollars for a replacement. (I can't believe the $30-40 USD rear rotors on eBay from China. too good to be true.)  New barnett clutch, pulled yoyodyne slave from shelf, disassembled to clean thoroughly, and installed. (it came with one but I was concerned about seals after seeing brake fluid neglect on front brake hydraulics). New front reservoirs (sbk masters didn't come with them), new reservoir tubing (clear tygon line from kurvey girl - praying it truly does last as claimed), new rear brake line, all new banjo bolts and crush washers all around (no more rounded off banjo bolt heads), and everything bled with fresh fluid. (ATE Super Blue DOT 4 .. because its BLUE! and is supposed to be great for spirited street riding, as well as occasional track, on recommendation from bmw car racing friend known since high school, had to have it after seeing the JC Pak Bikes pictures with it [and showing off some cool discacciati brake/clutch parts on a sportclassic] - available probably locally but certainly from Motowheels. Note: Comes in enormous 1L jug)

--
Electrical: Got the top power level Shorai battery. Replaced all fuses (every fuse was a 30A in the fuse block...), fixed numerous wiring connections, replaced rear/tailight/turnsignal wiring harness. Replaced taillight, installed turn signals, tidied up wiring as best possible, looked concernedly at a few spots using unprotected spade connectors (fuel level sender, neutral light switch) - plan to overhaul soon. Upgraded battery-solenoid, solenoid-starter, engine-frame, frame-battery wires with large gauge, while moving engine-frame ground connection at frame to the frame point under battery box where frame-battery wire and wiring harness bolt in.  Removed extra ground wire from bolt at regulator to battery, thoroughly cleaned frame bolt area (had 3 layers of paint - black spraypaint over red powdercoat over original antique gold frame paint).  Hooked up gauges and dp analog tach.

Am considering replacing regulator. Talked with Amanda from Rick's Motorsport Electrics. They are really really really great. The replacement regulator they sell - hot shot series - is a MOSFET design and will run cooler while able to put out a consistent 50A. We also talked about a higher output stator for accessories (this will be the grocery getter, I'd like heated grips, heated gear plug in, maybe even a gps).  Not yet available, but i could be a guineau pig - cool with me, but before I commit to being a tester, I ought to have the bike in working order.  And if I'm pulling that side cover off, its getting a nice coat of paint while I'm at it, and this thing is getting a lightweight flywheel - I really like my Nichols, and I'd quickly get another (besides I'm not sure one can get a carb-flywheel turned down because of the pickups).   I had considered looking into the Silent-Hektik parts - they have a regulator as well, on top of their fuel-injection retro fit kits, digital ignitions, and programmable ignitions (with coils, flywheels, pickups, selectable curves, etc). Then i remembered the goal was to be able to ride this thing in relatively short order and I had already spent money on silly, unnecessary things.

--
Body: Got belt covers, under-seat side panels (they were either missing or broken/damaged). Happened to get them in carbon, lucky me. DP oil catching belly pan "just in case".  Had DP Carbon front fairing for the 98-99 era Monsters. SWEET. Had the steel brackets - they do work with the IMA triples (double sweet!). Remembered I had seen aluminum ones once upon a time, but for some reason either didn't get them (cyclecat triple is not compatible with 98-99 era fairing brackets)... Re-found them: ECS Ducati / Ducatipartsblowout. (Sidebar: Almost got talked into the LRB aluminum matrix brake rotors - the pics he sent me look way cooler than those on the website... until I heard the price - they look just like the half-price swann mmc rotors...made by Lyndall Racing Brakes ["LRB" ?] listed on Motowheels).

That's all I can remember off the top of my head. Still need to put tires on it, do these heads, and pray to Jupiter for the sound of thunder when I push the start button.

[koko64]

a  m.
Thanks for sharing the extensive list.

Watching with great interest. There's alot of stuff there that should be on everyone's checklist when getting an older used bike, especially one that's been laying around. Then there's alot of stuff there that's just you being you! You seem to have a magnetic pull on all sorts of cool parts and a great eye for what looks right. Your wrestling name would be "The Accumulator".
Love your work.

I also noted that JE 94mm pistons are no longer listed by Chris. Kicking myself for not picking up a set. Damn, I'll have to get the 95mm pistons for the 'next' rebuild.

[junior varsity]

Haha, you better get on those Mahles quick - I asked him about those, I think its his last set. They are some of the better made pistons from my recollection. (Though my knowledge banks are not complete: Pistal, JE, Mahle, Arias, Bucci, Ferraci/FBF's wiseco [i think its wiseco])

[junior varsity]

I'll do a photo writeup in the end. I'm considering leaving the pistons alone, looking into the thinner or removed base gasket for a slight increase in compression, and finally putting those VeeTwo -210 'high torque' cams in something. From my review of the last topic regarding those, Brad Black mentioned that they generate a lot of pressure early, which when combined with high compression pistons there would be detonation/pinging. So, I could use these cams with the standard pistons and just go on with it. (and hope to not put a hole in a piston crown somewhere down the road).

that last sentiment kinda makes me want to do more investigation into the likes of swain tech coatings or other comparable applications to the combustion chamber, piston crown, and valve faces

[Düb Lüv]

don't forget about trouble with fitting those cams.

[Speeddog]

Interesting to compare Brad's stuff on those cams:
http://www.bikeboy.org/900carbv2cam.html

With this DS1k stuff:
http://www.bikeboy.org/gt1000dpk.html

The 900 with those cams is quite strong, more down low and hangs with the DS up to 7k.

[brad black]

you'll need to remove the cylinder and reseal or replace the base gasket.  if it's 99 it has the old hard sealer and i expect it'll leak after being disturbed.

i have fitted je pistons to quite a lot of things and the weight varies from maybe 50 grams lighter (carb 900) to not a great deal lighter (ie 900).  i forget the numbers now.  in my 750 the fbf pistons are 52 grams (11%) lighter than the originals and it made not a bit of difference to how the engine felt - no vibration issues after the swap that weren't there before.  so i do not have any belief in the "have to rebalance" argument.  i have ridden a few and indeed used to own one of the "coarse" 900 motors from the 1993 era - they're rather unpleasant, not sure why.

ca cycleworks don't sell je anymore as you can buy them on ebay for prices that meant there was no point losing money trying to compete.  well, having just looked on ebay they've gone up - they were there for $275 or so a few months ago, now 320 - 350.

je have deeper valve reliefs than std pistons.  if you fit 210 cams on std pistons you need to deepen the inlet reliefs at least.  the other point for fitting 210 is you have to either use thicker than ducati offer opening shims, have your inlet valves extended or use longer inlet valves.

je pistons have 1.0mm squish with the original base gaskets ime.  don't think i've checked a std piston.  my 750 was around 1mm piston to head clearance all std too, which surprised me.

i'd think 900ie cams are too long duration for long manifold carb heads, but i could be wrong.

that's about all i can think of.

[Düb Lüv]

on the thicker than normal opening shim brad mentioned, i would contact EMS to see it Mike could make you some. especially since ducati shims now are $34 each and EMS is $10.


+1 on the ebay JE pistons. i checked some of the sellers, and some were sold as cheap as $260 for 92mm's.

[greenmonster]

Am considering replacing regulator. Talked with Amanda from Rick's Motorsport Electrics. They are really really really great. The replacement regulator they sell - hot shot series - is a MOSFET design and will run cooler while able to put out a consistent 50A.

That`s good news, thx!
Is that the 10-125H & is it bolt-on?
I`ve thought about the Shindengen upgrade :
http://www.roadstercycle.com/Shindengen%20FH012AA%20Regulator%20upgrade%20kit.htm


Considering price, programmability & versatility, Ignitech is a better option than S-H.

I`d also check cush drives (incorrect term?) f rear sprocket mount, often incompleate or missing.

[junior varsity]

Checked rear sprocket carrier's cush drives/lugs. Replaced carrier - new one has good condition stuff and new sprocket went on.


I have the 210 cams, and the corresponding VeeTwo valves (intake and exhaust, oem valve face diameters) so i should be able to use normal shims, from my understanding.


but, that is a bummer regarding the relief pockets in the OEM pistons not being as deep, meaning these cams won't go right in...   I have a set of new base gaskets, OEM thickness in the parts shelves, not that they are necessary to substitute in, but when I take it all apart, I will spread everything out for a good look-see.