2-valve measuring/adjusting worksheet

[Dietrich]

I put a worksheet together based on info culled from the web, manuals, and my own way of adjusting valves on my own and several friend's bikes. It may not be for everybody, and I know there are other worksheets out there.  I don't do the "loaded gap" method, as I like to measure the closing shims directly when depressing the closing rockers.

Anyway, here's a link the the excell doc if you want to save a copy (LINK FIXED):

Ducati 2-valve Worksheet



 
 

 

[manwithgun]

It could be me but the link displays "Invalid URL".   Just did my valves tonight and was curious if your worksheet differs from mine.   

On a side note,  do you try to get your closer shims to < .002" and if so are you able to physically gauge that at the fork/shim or do you just make sure it spins? 

[Dellikose]

I get the same invalid URL, but once you get it back up I'll check it out.

I'm going to take a shot of doing the adjustment over the winter. 

[Dietrich]

Sorry guys, link should be fixed now.

I do get the closers under .002".  The smallest feeler I have is .0015" and many times I can't get that to fit, but if I can spin the closer by hand with pressure on the rocker then I leave it. The closer gap will always get bigger as the seat/valve wear as the valve is constantly trying to push itself out of the head.

The hardest thing to get right with the process is the feel of the gauges.  My first couple times I think I was using too much force to check the opening gap. I realized later that by forcing a large gauge in there I was actually depressing the closing spring a little...bad numbers.  So you just need to make sure the gauge goes in smoothly, snug but not forced, slight drag on the gauge.  Also, the closing rockers take a LOT more force to depress than you think they would, and this is especially hard to do in some of the awkward positions you will be in, so your numbers can vary if you are not pressing hard enough and getting consistent numbers.  I guess thats why I don't like the "loaded gap" method (where you press the closing rocker but take the reading at the opening shim and figure the change needed for the closing shim)...too many variables and stacked clearances.  At least in my simple mind.

[manwithgun]

Got my worksheet from Bob @ http://www.desmo-valvola-servizio.com/# with whom I was lucky enough to have taken a workshop with before attempting my first V-job...  I used the loaded/unloaded method which proved consistent. The tip I picked up from Chris Kelly's CA-Cycleworks-how-to-video was that the feeler gauge should drag as if sliding through a yellow pages book.  Now that I've had a go at it, my next time around should get me closer to .000 than .002  .

One chart that Bob includes on his worksheet is a conversion table from standard to metric which helps in sizing shims as my EMS kit is labeled metric.

You got any trick tools or do you just bank on patience?  I used the screwdriver depressor, magnet half-ring remover/finger installer, alligator clip valve holder, earplug hole pluger, jamnut crank turner and a couple of quarts of beer for good measure...

One trick that I came up with is to slot the holes on the bracket that mounts to the vertical intake cover so the nuts only need to be loosened rather than removed.

Maybe this thread can turn into the do's and don't of a valve job.

[Dietrich]

You got any trick tools or do you just bank on patience?  I used the screwdriver depressor, magnet half-ring remover/finger installer, alligator clip valve holder, earplug hole pluger, jamnut crank turner and a couple of quarts of beer for good measure...

I use all of the above too!  I use metal forcepts to hold the valve stem with fresh wrap of electrical tape around to prevent scratches and have bent the tips in slightly  to help prevent them from popping off.  The tape only lasts a little while because oil seems to turn the stickum into slime.  Sometimes I use safety wire attached to a small bolt to plug the oil holes. A screwdriver witha small dab of grease to hold the circlips works ok to get them back into place, usually with a nudge of a finger or another tool to get them in position.  I also made a crank turning tool with a degree wheel. it doesn't work like the Ducati tool, but works like the jamnut tool.  i just spin it on until it jams tight then am careful when turning the engine over so it doesn't loosen.  I downloades the degree wheel to print out from www.machinerycleanery.com .

Maybe this thread can turn into the do's and don't of a valve job.

Sounds good to me.

[He Man]

the valve wont fall in if the piston is in the way, if i have to old the valve so i can tap on it to get  closer off (because it gets stuck sometimes) i use a steel clothes hanger in a spoon shape to push on the valve.

[manwithgun]

the valve wont fall in if the piston is in the way, if i have to old the valve so i can tap on it to get  closer off (because it gets stuck sometimes) i use a steel clothes hanger in a spoon shape to push on the valve.

I needed the clip/forceps to keep the valve fully extended to install the closer shim collets; and I tend to spin the crank multiple revolution throughout the process/confusion.  Not sure if I'm picturing your hanger tool correctly.  Are you using it to press directly on the flared base of the closer shim while installing/removing the half rings?  I've thought about a crowfoot wrench bent at 90 deg. that would seat on the skirt for slip-proof install and removal.

Also, when finger installing the half-rings I found it easiest to position the end points down towards the shim and slide them down the shaft and into position.   I was also taught to look for the old seating marks or signs of wear and keep that side of the ring against the shim.  It's not always distinguishable but it makes sense that you'd be closer to your measured specs by doing so.

What else...  Do you remove all your shims at once or do one at a time?    Belts on or belts off?  And has anybody ever used the EMS  rocker holder tool that looks like a bottle opener?  It seems almost too easy... http://www.emsduc.com/products.html

[He Man]

its kind of werid how i do it because i have small hands.

but i use a 8mm allen key to keep the  closing rocker arm depressed by locking out the cam.
then i  use 2 magnet pens. sometimes the valve wont stay put so i will just use a clothes hanger through the spark plug and hold the valve up so i can slip the shim on.

to install the collets ( i have MBP collets so they are shaped i na way thats super easy to install) i put some oil on the valve stem and then use a magnetic pen to transfer the collet onto the valve and then slide it down with my fingers. then i pull the closer up and use it to rotate it to the back and then repeat it for the other.

i ALWAYS do belts off, its not very easy to do it accurately with the belts on.
the old collets are sometimes hard to tell if its flat on one end or not. but even then i have MBP collets now and they are unmistakable in orientation.

that EMS tool is only for 4 valves AFAIk.

[MonsterHPD]

Valve adjustment and belt tensioning are probably two of the most written-about subjects on earth; I suppose there are as many right ways to do it in as there are people doing it.  I have only done 2V´s, and I think my ideas are are prettu much in line with what is already written here. Some points I´ve found useful:

1) I always take the belts off.
2) I use the loaded / unloaded method. In the case of the closers, this serves only to get in the right range with the shim thickness; in the end I always rely on the drag when turning the cam, and the feel when I rotate the valve with depressed closer rocker to get the clerance at "0+" so to speak.
3) I do one cylinder at the time, positioning the piston a little below TDC so I can rest the valves on the piston if I need (for getting the closer shim loose, for instance). You should only do one valve at the time if you use this method to avoid tangling the valves against each other.
4) I use an M6 allen head bolt to block the oil channel when doing the rear cylinder. I´ve drilled a hole through the head and twisted a lock wire through the hole so I won´t forget it in there when I bolt the covers in place.
5) I got fed up with depressing the closer rocker with a screwdriver, sliding out with it and potentially damaging a valve stem seal, so I made a rocker depressor tool:



This works great.

6) Every year lots of half rings used to be broken, both on my Monster, and the 900 SSie track day bike I share with a friend:



This was a good year!

This year, we switched both bikes to MPB collets. The Monster has very few miles on them so I have not checked, but the track day bike had all closers <0.01mm or so (no drag on the cams, but not measurable with a feeler gage). With this limited experience I can only recommend them to everyone 

7) I use a magnetic pick to retrieve the rings, and a dab of grease on a finger to hold them when I put them back. Keeps at least one finger smooth, as well 

If you need to keep the valves in place without collets, a rubber O-ring of suitable size in the half-ring grooves in the valve stem can do the job. It  wont keep the valves very securely, but enough so you can get new shims or whatever.

9) For a turning tool, an M8 bolt with a nut works fine: Screw in the bolt in the crank end until it almot bottoms, hold the bolt and tighten the nut against the crank (with a washer between crank and nut).

10) When you´re done, and the belts are in place, rotate the crank a couple of times with the turning tool and check the markings on the cam belt pulleys against the markings on the valve cover and engine case, and make sure the engine turns easily.     

I think that´s it ...  now it´s time for the beer   


             

[Privateer]

thank you, all good tips.

My plan is to do my own valve check around christmas when I'm off work and I can let my bike sit for a day (or two).

what I need is a mentor.. bleh..

[He Man]

i thought i was cutting corners when i checked the closing for no drag.

if i cant measure it, and theres no drag, i call it perfect.

a screw driver is te worst thing to use to depress the rocker. i use a 1/2 or 3/4 inch brass punch. doesnt mar, wont slip and has a nice good grip. but i only use it to either check the closing using the load/unloaded method or to lock the cam with an allen key.

[MonsterHPD]

As noted, there are as many ways to do it correctly as there are people doing it ... beeing saturday night here, several parallells spring to mind  

Clearace not measurable with a feeler gauge and no drag on the cam, fine. Same and slight drag on the cam, also fine.
Same again and significant drag on the cam: reconsider.
Do it a few times and you´ll have the hang of a method that works for you, as I have found a method, and tools, that work for me.  

In my experience, the 2V motors are very robust. As long as you stay clear of major screw-ups (such as mis-timing the cams), and using common sense, nothing bad will happen.

Beeing a not very bold person, I took a 2V service course at Kaemna before I started doing my own Duc service jobs. When I got home, I checked my M900 motor, one summer after having it serviced at a reputable dealer. One valve still had negative closer clearance (like cam turning pretty reluctantly ...). The same parts are still running, 40K kilometres later
    

[manwithgun]

thank you, all good tips.

My plan is to do my own valve check around christmas when I'm off work and I can let my bike sit for a day (or two).

what I need is a mentor.. bleh..

No mentor, no Holiday Inn,  but I do live in Huntington and will gladly show you a bit of the ropes.  Probably just enough to really get yourself into trouble tho...   and no hand holding.   

[Dirty Duc]

Used only on 8 mm valve stem motors, Pre 94, Belt Drive 2V motors, 907 Paso, Gran Canyon, MH 900e, Monster 600, 620, 750, 800, 800s, 900, S2R through 06'. ST2, Supersport 620, 750 up through 06' 800, 900. Will not work on 7 mm, 2V bikes.

From the write up on the rocker tool.