696/796/1100 - Just how common?

[Flanny]

Hey folks,

New to the forum, and to Ducati, but not new to modding, farkling, customizing bikesetc.

I have a "dumb noob" question about compatibility that the search function didn't resolve.

I bought a 2009 696, and have begun the process of making it "right" with many of the more typical mods found on this forum, and that will improve the bike's performance, handling, comfort etc.

The UPS man has been busy!  Bars, rear-sets etc.  plus an SSS conversion on the way!  Can't wait to dig in.

Anyway...I am only now really getting to know the various models of Ducati and the model history.  Looking at all of the 2009+ Monsters, I was really surprised to find how dimensionally similar the three monsters in the family really are  (seemingly identical wheelbase, very close weight.  With the exception of the 696 rear shock clevis, the same height etc...)

Which lead me to wonder after a couple of beers.  Is it possible that Ducati is using the same engine case castings for all three bikes?  Could the jugs be the same, with simply different sleeves/cranks and deck heights?  Anyway, the more I drank, the more I thought about it, and now I just have to know if it could really be!...

Ultimately where I'm headed with this is wondering if any of the header pipes from the various aftermarket suppliers would fit the 696 from either a 796 or 1100 application once the SSS is done. (or at least would they be close enough to fit the 696 engine with small mods).  In other words, could it be that the headers are in fact the same, and the application differences form the aftermarket are just a result of the swingarm difference?

The 696 is getting the single-sided swingarm in about a week, and I'm really looking to get an 1100 EVO-type exhaust set-up (I really, really hate the under-seat exhaust!). I've contacted FF by Fresco about a fully custom exhaust - i really dig what they've been able to do with some custom pipes, but if I can just buy the headers from an 1100 EVO and get them close-enough to make some small mods, then that would just be a whole lot faster/cheaper on the wrecker market.

Anyway, dumb question of sorts, but without all three bikes here, I really have no way to tell,  just had to ask for the collective wisdom here to understand just how close the three engines actually are...

Anyway, if anyone with detailed tech knowledge of the difference models could chime in that would be great.

Thanks in advance for not flaming me for such a lame first post!

Pictures of the 696 will be posted once the wrenching starts in earnest on the SSS!

Flanny

[He Man]

thats the way it, for the most part, has been for all of ducati's bike. there are differences that make plug and play between them not 100% possible. but for the most part, yes.

[Howie]

There is some commonality between the 696 and 796 engines, very little with the 1100.  The headers are a no go.

[Raux]

the 1100 motor is definitely different.
the 796 is a stroked 696 but not certain about the exhaust port locations. you could cross reference part numbers on the the headers to see.

the evo pipes might work with cutting/welding but I think their diameter is different too, so would cause issues. better to go custom with right sizes. The non-evo pipes are the same size, but are definitely longer. 

frame are similar, but i've heard the 1100 frame is different diamter tubes?

rear shock is all the same, the clevis is interchangeable so you can raise the 696 easily, but you'll need longer forks upfront as well.

subframes have minor differences across the years and evo vs non-evo
the later years have holes for grab handles, evo has passenger set mounts, etc.
but all should be compatible.

on the SSS conversion get a speedo healer, you'll need it, 6 bolt vs 4 bolt speedo pickups.

looking forward to seeing your mods, so no, not a dumb first post.

[Flanny]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply Raux.

You've nailed the key question - exhaust port location.

I thought about cross- referencing header part numbers, but I don't have fiches.

So - seems the answer will require one of a coupe of things:

a) can anyone point me to links for the parts fiches for the 2009/2010 non-evo models of the 696/796/1100? I'd be happy to do the research

b) alternately, if anyone has those fiches kicking around, could you look up the part numbers for the front header, rear header and collectors for the model that you have the numbers for?  We should know the answer in fairly short order if. Few people chip in.

Here's the table we need:

                        696.                       796.                  1100
Front hdr
Rear hdr
Collector

If the header and collector part numbers are the same, then all exhaust options should be fully interchangeable once the SSS is done on the 696.

Sure would be fun to know for example that the sweet SC Project full exhaust for the 796 would fit a 696 with an SSS. 

On my mods, yeah, speedo healer is already on order.  Will also need to order the 520 rear sprocket.  Thinking of using 14/46 gearing on the 696.  The 1100 stocks rear is a 525 with 39 teeth.

I will probably leave the stock 696 clevis in place until after I see what the SSS and new exhaust looks like.  I like the bike handling as it is, and haven't found a need for more ground clearance (yet)...

Thank you all for your collective wisdom - hope to pay-back soon with a good 696 build thread...

Cheers!

[Howie]

http://www.ducati.com/services/maintenance/index.do

[Flanny]

Okay - Here's the table so far for the 2010 696, 1100, 2011 796 model year:

                        696.                 796.                  1100
Front hdr      570.1.279.1A        570.1.289.1A     570.1.273.2A
Rear hdr       570.1.269.2A        571.1.277.1A     571.1.268.1A
Collector      572.1.149.1A        572.1.158.1A     572.1.155.1B

Notable things:
1 - The collector on the 796 and 1100 have provisions for the exhaust valve, so obvious difference there.
2 - Lambdda sensors are all the same
3 - Exhaust Gaskets are all the same
4 - Spring clamps are the same (could possibly indicate same diameter, but maybe not...)

Not sure that cross referencing part numbers is a reliable indicator of the part being the same.  For example, the heat shields on the main headers are v. likely identical, but carry different part numbers...I've gone through the parst fiches and find many things where it would seem to me that the parst should be the same (like side stand senso) that carry different part numbers...

So....not sure if that actually helped much, but my hunch is that the 796 and the 696 headers are probably interchangeable..I found one fiche on ine that referenced the headers on the 796 and 696 headers in the description.. Got to go see if I can dig that up againt.

Raux - looked at the 696 and 796 forks - they are identical in all internal part numbers.  ONly the whole assembly parst numbers are different.

[Flanny]

Here is a link to a most interesting fiche.

http://www.ducatimcparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=441881&ukey_make=1051&ukey_model=15308&modelYear=ALL&ukey_category=19850&ukey_driveLine=6507&ukey_TrimLevel=0&ukey_modelRange=0&searchString=

Shows the 796 headers are 696 headers, and the collector is an 1100 collector.

Makes me want to belive that all of the  696, 796 and 1100 headers are interchangeable...

How could we find this out for sure short of trying a swap?  Does anyone on the board here build exhausts who would know based on their jigs?

I'd really love to think I'm onto something....

[Dirty Duc]

I thought somebody on here swapped the 696 headers onto an 1100 to eliminate the flapper valve?  Ah it was just the mid-pipe.

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=50696.0

And here's the data
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=39956.0

So, it looks like other than slip-ons which should all be the same, you already have the best header option.

[Flanny]

 Thanks for the info.

So we have another data point.  We now know the mid-pipes are fully interchangeable, so pipe diameters are all the same, as are the termination points from the headers to the mid-pipe.

We know the exhaust gaskets are the same at the header, so the header flanges are probably the same.

The only question left is if the port location is sufficiently different that he headers would not fit.  The 796 has a stroke of 66 mm, vs the 696 stroke of 57.2.  A difference of about 8mm along the axis of the crank, or 5.6 mm for the two sides of a 90 degree square.

I think then that the only difference between a 696 header and a 796 header may be that the 796 header could be between 5.6 and 8mm longer than the 696 header.  This difference could easily be made up at the slp connector of a collector, or just cut off.

Hmmmmm...

By the way "the best" configuration is really subjective.  I really don't like the underseat exhaust, and I'd gladly suffer a small performance hit on power/torque to get rid of the under seat heat, and the weight of two cans up high.  I also personally think the monster look best when then undertail is clear of pipe clutter...just my own taste, everyone will difffer on that one.

I personally think the sc project 1100 evo setup is sex on wheels, and would love to replicate that look on my 696.

[Raux]

but what's the point of using a 796 header on a 696... same same.

I thought this was about using an evo on a 696. not same not same.
In fact I'd be surprised if the evo isn't a larger diameter.

[Flanny]

Good questions...I guess my mind works in a pretty convoluted path!

The reason for nailing down the 796 question is that he SC project full system application on the 796 is sex-on-wheels to my eyes too (a close second to the evo style setup)..so that becomes an option if the geometry works out.

The folks at ff by fresco seem to do nice custom work, so if I could order a custom evo style exhaust, and just tell them to build it for a 796 it will be a whole lot easier for them to do and to exapling, then for them to find a 696 with an SSS conversion.

So, right now, those two manufacturers are probably the best options.  I'll y to reach out to them on the phone next week to see if I can hook up with someone that can answer the question.

I really have a feeling the 796 system will bolt right up given potential for the slip fittings to make up some geometry differences.

More to follow once I can speak with either of those manufacturers...