building a 4 pole starter?

[monsta]

thanks smdub
good idea in point 1, for the wire to be made from a copper strip... I may just do that!     I looked around to buy the wire yesterday with no joy. so this is a timely reply...


as for the rivets...  thats pretty much waht I had planned, tho, I'll have to wait till I've got the bits, because I dont think there'll be room to get a punch or seat on one side of the plate. And blind rivets will be too big??

anyhow, just gotta wait for the brush plates to arrive to suss it properly...

[smdub]

I don't see why you can't get to the back, looks doable from here but maybe Im missing something.  Usually the negative pole holders are riveted directly to the base plate where the motor frame provides ground.  The positive holders should be riveted to an insulator and then that is riveted to the base plate w/ clearance for the first set of rivets so they wont short out to the plate.

You mention pop/blind rivets.  Since they are under nearly zero force, you could install a pop rivet, carefully cut much of the end off w/ a grinding wheel, and carefully peen over the remainder.  Would probably be easier to both source and peen than solid rivets.

Or on a completely different tact, how about cutting two factory (still assembled) plates in half and welding them back together as one?  You already have the special base plates made up but this approach might be more practical for someone starting from scratch.

[monsta]

Bits arrived (2 brush plates) and I made a bit of progress yesterday...
I've used blind rivots as suggested by smdub, but what I did was cut them a bit shorter and remove the 'pin' from up the guts of it and install and pein over.
Looks a bit agricultural, but theres plenty of clearance around the springs. I also had to drill some holes in the plate and make some spacers to raise the height of the negative holder.
all in all, I'm fairly happy how it came out...





Now I have to work out how to get the wiring around and joined up..
It looks like the wire is fused onto the positive contact?? I guess i can just try an solder a wire to this??  any suggestion?

[monsta]

job done...
got it all together, connected power and Spins up ok.
I'd like to work out if, and how much extra torque it puts out, but I reckon I'll just have to put it on the engine and just trial it...
might take a while to fit because I've got a few other thing on me plate at the moment.

[ENGAKATS]

Hi monsta, any updates on this? Did you try the 4 pole on your starter?

 

[greenmonster]

Any update Monsta?

[Düb Lüv]

I can't believe it's already been a year. Time flies when your 25. Har har made a joke

[monsta]

update!  has it really been that long! 

Got the starter in a couple of months ago!
Definately works better! rarely have that stutter where you have to let go of the starter button and try again, but that does still happen...
Still not perfect, but better...

I do have a problem tho, where sometimes it wont start and I have to put it in gear and rock the bike to get the engine in a different position?? then it'll start up ok.

I've given Koko64 a laser cut plate and he's also gunna have one made up. We'll have to wait for him to see if he gets the same results....

  

[koko64]

Thanks Monsta.
It's with my sparky who is rebuilding Lukes starter for his 944.
He was very impressed with the plate. Hope to get it back this week.

I wonder if you have a sprague gear bearing issue.

[JoeB]

I'd be interested in the 4-pole plate if you have a spare one laying around.

[koko64]

I have a used oem starter on the way from a forum member. The Superlight starter is buggered.  May order an Electrex starter for Luke and if its output isnt enough we will have to decide which one to convert to 4 pole.  Will order brush kits from Electrex this week. Anyone used their starter motors?

Update.
Ordered brush kits from Electrex. They actually make 4 pole brush plates, but not it seems for Ducati. Will see if my sparky can modify the plate to fit the oem Denso starter. If not we can remove the parts to put on the monsta plate.
Thanks to akmnstr for selling me the starter for a great price and to monsta for his technical guidance.

Will see how we go.

[monsta]

well...  it failed on me! 

was working fine, but it was starting to not engage when I pressed the start button. I'd have to put the bike in gear and rock it and then the starter would work.

So I pulled it out and had a look. Seems to be a lot of wear on the brushes and I'm guessing they were sticking in the brush holders.

Anyhow, I put another old starter in that I had lying around.
I also fitted an anti gravity lithium battery... All problems are gone! no hesitation whatsoever!

I'll have another crack at the 4 pole starter when I get a chance, but it'll be on the 'it can wait' list because there's no great urgency for it now...