The red/black key dilema

[Ledz558]

So, I lost my whole set of keys and my last black key was on them..   I've been reading on here about key programing etc. I bought another black duc key that needs to be cut and I was going to buy another one. Then I took my problem out in the world and this guy came back with this...


Red keys and black keys have different programming. The red is the master key used for pertaining new dashes and ECU. But when the system asks you to "insert black key 1" and you use a clone of the red key the system will see it as a red key and will NOT allow the programming to go any further.

Very, very few shops can actually get you a true black key from a red key. I'm one of them. But if you have the code card or the info on the card that will be faster, safer and cheaper.

Also, using your red key as a primary key is not a good idea unless you have no choice. The reason being is that if for any reason you trigger or trip the immobilizer you'll be stuck in that mode with a dead bike.  Tripping the immobilizer is not common but very possible if the right sequence of hand control steps are performed. The only way to get it out of immobilizer trip mode is with red key and code card info.


So I've been riding with my red key, and I do have a new dash, my old one on my bike doesn't work. I have never tripped the thing where it went dead. Anybody out there have this problem. Or is this true about these black keys..


thanks
Ledz


Capirex 620 04

[brad black]

buy two black keys and code them using the std procedure.  easy.

[Ledz558]

Yes that's what I've always heard Brad that you can do that but this guy claims otherwise and wants to charge me $280 to do it, plus he says not to many can do this but him, which I think he's full of crap.
I've read on here that you can program black keys to the red, I think it even sez that in my bike manual for the red key is for when you lose your blacks the purpose of the red is for that reason..duh.
I can't find any locksmith around this one horse town I live in to cut them though, I have to go an hour to a bigger city.
I'll email the tech in CA @ pro italia where I got my bike and ask him.

[Speeddog]

You can code 2 black keys from a red key, just as Brad says.

As far as cutting the black keys, it's no more difficult than doing a house key or padlock key.
Any genuine locksmith should be able to do it, even a hardware store with a key cutter can do it.
Very unlikely that they would have one of the blanks with the chip in it, yes.

You said your old dash that's on the bike doesn't work, and you've got a new one.
Is that *brand new*, never been used?
Or is that a used unit that's new to you?

If you want to mix a dash replacement in with the key programming thing, it's a bit more complicated.
Totally possible, but a different procedure.
And it depends on how *new* that dash is.

[Ledz558]

Speed its a new dash still in the box from Italy,  even has the clear plastic on it sealed..

So where can I get another blank black with a chip?
I saw those instructions on how to program it on here so I'm not worried about that.

Thanks for the info..

[Speeddog]

Blank black key with a chip?
sosdiagnostics.com
There may be others, but I stay with vendors who have delivered the good in the past, as experiments tend to lighten my wallet.

I think a Duc dealer should be able to get 'em as well.

Keep in mind you need to have 2 black keys to do the programming, AFAIK it won't cooperate if there's only one black key.

I'll be 'that guy' and say that a spare black key might well be a good thing. 

[brad black]

you need at least 3 keys total to do a coding procedure.

[Ledz558]

Thanks..Brad n speed, forgot to mention that, when they sent the dash in the mail, the needle fell off on the right side. 
I need to take it apart and put the speed needle back on, sure this isn't hard, it looks like there's a torx screw holding it together.
The front cover with the gasket around it comes off right..

[Speeddog]

What year and model of speedo is it?

Early ones did not come apart with screws, only saws.

IIRC, the change was ~2005, but that's not cast in stone.

[Ledz558]

It's for a 2004 620 duc.

I'd post a pic but you can't browse pics on here and load from your desktop.

[ducpainter]

You need to host your pics on photobucket...flickr...etc and link to them

[jwoconnor]

Doesn't re-flashing the ECU remove any need for chipped keys?

[brad black]

yes, but two chipped keys should cost less.  up to the owner.