Upgrade 2 piston calipers to 4 piston?

[mmakay]

So I have the 2 piston Brembos on my 695 ... would it be a worthwhile mod to pick up some 4 piston calipers? 

I'm not pushing the bike hard enough to fade the stock set up, but the brake feel is pretty wooden.  I really just want better brake feel, rather than tons of power.

[Howie]

So I have the 2 piston Brembos on my 695 ... would it be a worthwhile mod to pick up some 4 piston calipers? 

I'm not pushing the bike hard enough to fade the stock set up, but the brake feel is pretty wooden.  I really just want better brake feel, rather than tons of power.

If you upgrade the calipers it means upgrading the master cylinder, new rotors and, if I remember correctly, new lines too.  Good upgrade, but expensive.  I would try after market pads first, much cheaper  The OEM pads do feel like wood at speed, even with 4 pot calipers.

[clubhousemotorsports]

I agree with what Howie said but in the days of ebay you can get a complete brake system cheap enough you should be able to upgrade for less than a couple hundred dollars. new (better) pads will set you back probably $60ish.

just thought though that you will probably need larger rotors as well there goes the budget
I would buy brake components from ebay (used anywhere) but rotors are a gamble that they do not have high spots.

If on a tight budget the pads will get you much better brakes.
If you are going to eventually upgrade anyway don't waste the money on the pads

[Monstyr]

You wont have to replace the master cylinders,they should work just fine.
I replaced the discs, calipers and lines on my S2R which has the same oe set up but kept the coffin masters.Those are just as effective as the goldline masters I have(still) in the garage but never used because of the clutch switch wasn't on the goldlines.Maybe I'll try them out one day.

[ducpainter]

You wont have to replace the master cylinders,they should work just fine.
I replaced the discs, calipers and lines on my S2R which has the same oe set up but kept the coffin masters.Those are just as effective as the goldline masters I have(still) in the garage but never used because of the clutch switch wasn't on the goldlines.Maybe I'll try them out one day.

You don't have to replace masters, but the coffins on the S2R is 15mmm and the goldlines and the coffins on the 4 pot bikes are 16mm.

It certainly affects the feel. Depending on preference you may like it better.

YMMV as always.

[mmakay]

You don't have to replace masters, but the coffins on the S2R is 15mmm and the goldlines and the coffins on the 4 pot bikes are 16mm.

It certainly affects the feel. Depending on preference you may like it better.

YMMV as always.

May like which better?  The larger pistons or the smaller?  The smaller pistons should actually be more powerfull, but require a longer pull.

[ducpainter]

May like which better?  The larger pistons or the smaller?  The smaller pistons should actually be more powerfull, but require a longer pull.

I was saying you may like the smaller bore better.

I know an ex racer that swore by an undersized master for single disc brakes to enhance feel.

I have no FHE.

edit....

the 4 pad calipers on my 996 with standard masters are amazing.

[DarkStaR]

You don't have to replace masters, but the coffins on the S2R is 15mmm and the goldlines and the coffins on the 4 pot bikes are 16mm.

It certainly affects the feel. Depending on preference you may like it better.

YMMV as always.

+1.  It does feel a bit different with the 15mm, but still works.

I like the more "solid" feel with the 16mm better.

[EEL]

It all depends on where you use you're bike. If its the track, then the higher bore will give you a better bite allow you to brake harder. If you're using it on the street, you'll get a LOT more brake feel with what you have right now. i initially thought about upgrading the bore but after a few weeks of use, the brake feel is WAY more useful than the added bore would ever have been. Stick with what you have I think you'll be more than happy with it.

[EEL]

I hope I didnt confuse anyone with that last statement.

I'll clarify since its a little counter intuitative.

The smaller the master cylinder bore the more movement you will have in your lever
The bigger the master cylinder bore, the less movement you will have in your lever

BUT, since the lever is moving less with a bigger bore, you have more room the pull it in tighter to get more braking (though its much tougher to do this). So the reality is that the bigger bore master will assist your in braking just a tad harder than with the smaller bore.

The problem is you loose a lot of feel for a bit more overall braking power.

[krista]

This is the setup I have on my S2R 800 (same brakes as OEM from Ducati):
http://pics.livejournal.com/ca_cycleworks/gallery/00001q3t

They are hella strong! Almost too strong! If it weren't for the great feel, I would have downgraded to an axial master cylinder.

Advice I normally give our customers who ask about the same mod:
+ I always suggest buying new aftermarket rotors, like EBC (saves $) or BrakeTech (best on market)
- Ducati OEM rotors are on the thin side, 4.5mm, and warp kind of easily. I would never suggest buying them new and definitely not used!

+ Get the "2 pin" gold line calipers which have 4 pistons and 2 brake pads. They are very stiff and work quite well. They can be found used, too! They were on many Aprilias as well as most Ducatis from 2000 on.
- Avoid the "4 pad" brembo calipers ... they have extreme initial bite, which I consider dangerous on the street. IMHO, anyone who recommends these calipers for street use are irresponsible. While riding a stock 749, I could lock up the front wheel at freeway speeds at will. Not cool.

+ For the best feel, use "organic" or semi-metallic compound brake pads, like Ferodo Platinum, Performance Friction, or EBC Green Stuff
- Sintered pads are the great rage, but they have unfriendly high initial bite and introduce a lot of heat into the rotors, leading more easily to warped rotors.

- You almost always need new brake lines to be custom fabbed
+ ... unless you use the same setup as standard on another Ducati, then you can use their OEM hoses or buy aftermarket ones for that model.

Chris

[clubhousemotorsports]

early superbikes like the 851 used a smaller piston so as stated you had a longer throw that some thought equaled weaker brakes. You did end up with better feel but for some reason it is comforting having the brakes bite earlier than later.

I never changed my 851 masters and never felt they were "weak"
If I was starting from scratch with a system I would go with the gold lines.

Another thing to think about is that when your buddy hits your front brake lever at  70mph there is a better chance of recovering with the smaller piston

And I can tell you that the coffin masters hold up much better if you do not recover.

[ducpainter]

early superbikes like the 851 used a smaller piston so as stated you had a longer throw that some thought equaled weaker brakes. You did end up with better feel but for some reason it is comforting having the brakes bite earlier than later.

I never changed my 851 masters and never felt they were "weak"
If I was starting from scratch with a system I would go with the gold lines.

Another thing to think about is that when your buddy hits your front brake lever at  70mph there is a better chance of recovering with the smaller piston

And I can tell you that the coffin masters hold up much better if you do not recover.

   

[mmakay]

Good info all.  Thanks!