is there a mechanic in the house

[cbartlett419]

so here is the deal. 1996 Suzuki X-90 1.6l I-4. Friday night I noticed the starter was a little sluggish, no bigger. Saturday substantially more sluggish so I put a new battery in, charge it, still nothing, not even a click at the solenoid. So yesterday I pulled the starter had it tested the guy said it was "weak" but ready correctly on his machine. Installed new starter and just the solenoid clicks, pulled the new starter out and have it tested, better than fine. Re-install starter and replace positive and negative terminals and wire, still the solenoid clicks but does not engage the starter. I can rotate the engine via a wrench on the harmonic balance, all my systems que up, 12.7 volts at the battery and starter, and crossing the solenoid produces the same click, no spinning starter. If I bump the starter 3-4 times the power wire heats as if it's sending current, but no nada. 

save me Obi Won Kenobi you're my only hope

[Scooter Montgomery]

What if you try and jump the starter directly with jump cables? Put the car in park, turn the key to the run position, and put power directly to the starter, and see if it turns over and starts.

[Howie]

There is high resistance somewhere between the positive battery post and the starter.  Even if the connections are clean there can be resistance where cable joins the connector or in the cable itself.  The cable may also have a junction point between the battery and starter that is poor.  Best way to find the high resistance is by voltage drop.




                    l                VOLTMETER         l
                    l                                           l
                    l                                           l
                    l                         ___             l
____________l______________l  _________l___________________
                                            l___
                                     CONNECTION OR LOAD



This is done by setting your meter in parallel with the connection or load.  A wire or connection should have no more than a .1 volt loss, .2 for the whole circuit.  Test the ground side also.      

Sorry about the poor art work

[cbartlett419]

positive and negative cables both where replaced, no connections, just at the ends, those too are fresh. I did not replace the positive and negative cables that terminate at the main fuse panel and fire wall, but they tested fine and if I'm not crazy, should not be the culprits. I ran your test, howie, by touching positive lead to positive terminal on the batt. and grounding on the starter housing, again with positive lead to positive terminal on starter and grounding to starter housing, again with negative lead to negative batt terminal and positive lead to positive terminal on starter, again with positive lead to positive terminal on starter and ground on negative terminal on batt. every time the voltage stays the same, still a stout click by the solenoid and no effort to turn the motor.

I'm truly at a loss here

[mitt]

There is high resistance somewhere between the positive battery post and the starter.  Even if the connections are clean there can be resistance where cable joins the connector or in the cable itself.  The cable may also have a junction point between the battery and starter that is poor.  Best way to find the high resistance is by voltage drop.




                    l                VOLTMETER         l
                    l                                           l
                    l                                           l
                    l                         ___             l
____________l______________l  _________l___________________
                                            l___
                                     CONNECTION OR LOAD



This is done by setting your meter in parallel with the connection or load.  A wire or connection should have no more than a .1 volt loss, .2 for the whole circuit.  Test the ground side also.      

Sorry about the poor art work

Just a question - this is done under load correct?  I assume it is a 2 person job, one to turn the key and the other to read the voltage drop.  Because to get a voltage drop across a conductor, you need current.

What the OP stated above is just checking the open circuit voltage between the positive and negative sides, not really testing the robustness of the connections.

mitt

mitt

[tcspeedfreak]

check out the solenoid itself maybe that is shot, check voltage between that and the starter?

[Howie]

Just a question - this is done under load correct?  I assume it is a 2 person job, one to turn the key and the other to read the voltage drop.  Because to get a voltage drop across a conductor, you need current.

What the OP stated above is just checking the open circuit voltage between the positive and negative sides, not really testing the robustness of the connections.

mitt

mitt

DOH! (hitting self upside head)   Yes, under load, meaning someone has to hit the starter button.  No load, no drop. 

Thanks, Mitt

[Porsche Monkey]

Make sure that your engine and body grounds are good.  Like Howie said, a voltage drop test is the way to go.  Even with new wires, make sure they have a good clean mounting surface.  Even though you said it had a new battery, check it.  Start there and work your way down the circuit to the starter.  I suspect a bad ground because you stated the B+ wire is getting hot. 

[Gator]

Does it have a kill switch connected to the side stand?

I assume it you can crank it by hand you are in Neutral, have engaged 1st and put it back into neutral?
I had a GSX that would ''Forget'' it was still in neutral after disconnecting the battery.

[Porsche Monkey]

Does it have a kill switch connected to the side stand?

I assume it you can crank it by hand you are in Neutral, have engaged 1st and put it back into neutral?
I had a GSX that would ''Forget'' it was still in neutral after disconnecting the battery.

Its a mini SUV, not a bike. 

[Gator]

ok forget about the side stand question then...


we dont have x-90s in Europe.
I dont know the Suzuki bike range or models released in the US.
I thought it was just a missed placed Tech thread.


Have you tried kicking it?

[toaster]

try jumping it across the solenoid to see what it does.  put the key to run and have the shifter in park or have the clutch pushed down and find the solenoid and hit both terminals with something metal and see what it does.  if it starts up that means your solenoid is bad.

and if that doesnt help you can deliver the car to me, my brothers slightly wrecked x90 needs parts.

[cbartlett419]

I performed the drop test and it damn near zeroed out, so I replaced the ground wire and terminals, filed paint, coated everything with unubtanium grease and still the solenoid clicked. I had to split to put in some hours else where but plan to perform the voltage drop test again in the morning

and if that doesnt help you can deliver the car to me, my brothers slightly wrecked x90 needs parts.

is his 4x4? does he want to sell his front-end?

[El Matador]

Have you tried the heimlich maneuver yet 

[toaster]

is his 4x4? does he want to sell his front-end?

his is a 2wd sadly.  and if youre talking about front end body parts, thats what im wanting yours for.