What not to do at Turn 2 Eastern Creek.

[loony888]

letting loose at the track, regardless of how much ability you have or whether you're a victim of your own red mist is cool, it's the safest place to make the beast with two backs up

Loony you seem to have taken my point of view personally    what about the poor victims you will take with you on your demise I regret to say but its words like that relay make a statement to you view of your fellow mans safety

Some go out to enjoy their machines with safety in mind regardless of the cost of it  ,these are the people i want to ride with, not some testosterone filled try hard with no experience trying impress his mates or his women

I do value your opinion Loony, but in this case i am a little disappointed 

no, not really, i don't take things personally but your criticisms are a little out of touch. first and foremost, the big picture looks like this, on the road if you get carried away you could fall off, you could also run wide, say straight into the path of a station wagon with a young family on board, and lets say you're lucky enough to live, mangled, maybe, but you live. now lets say the family wasn't so lucky, the wife in the passenger seat is DOA, the 5year old in the back is a paraplegic and his older sister is so traumatised she goes into shock and needs serious counselling but really, she'll never get over it. They didn't sign up for that, they planned on a nice drive and a picnic with the kids. At the very least, you would have to admit that everyone who attends a track day and intends on participating attends a rider briefing, in that briefing everyone is reminded how dangerous our sport/hobby is, so everyone knows full well what the risks involved are, and that includes being taken down by another rider. those experienced enough to understand the need for bike preperation also have enough experience to spot wobblers and give them a wide berth. As i said previously, marshalls usually spot them and with a kind word suggest maybe a different group. my point is, on a track day everyone shares the risks, everyone goes in the same direction and plays under mutually understood guidelines, that sort of level playing field is a pipe dream on the road. Regardless of anyones motives for doing a track day, and regardless of their skill level, maturity or experience the track is the best place to play and elitist bullshit about who may be worthy to ride with you is a joke. everyone who attends pays the same admission fee, and riders of ALL levels should be encouraged to use the track, to learn the limits of themselves and their bikes.


paul.

[Dockstrada]

no, not really, i don't take things personally but your criticisms are a little out of touch. first and foremost, the big picture looks like this, on the road if you get carried away you could fall off, you could also run wide, say straight into the path of a station wagon with a young family on board, and lets say you're lucky enough to live, mangled, maybe, but you live. now lets say the family wasn't so lucky, the wife in the passenger seat is DOA, the 5year old in the back is a paraplegic and his older sister is so traumatised she goes into shock and needs serious counselling but really, she'll never get over it. They didn't sign up for that, they planned on a nice drive and a picnic with the kids. At the very least, you would have to admit that everyone who attends a track day and intends on participating attends a rider briefing, in that briefing everyone is reminded how dangerous our sport/hobby is, so everyone knows full well what the risks involved are, and that includes being taken down by another rider. those experienced enough to understand the need for bike preperation also have enough experience to spot wobblers and give them a wide berth. As i said previously, marshalls usually spot them and with a kind word suggest maybe a different group. my point is, on a track day everyone shares the risks, everyone goes in the same direction and plays under mutually understood guidelines, that sort of level playing field is a pipe dream on the road. Regardless of anyones motives for doing a track day, and regardless of their skill level, maturity or experience the track is the best place to play and elitist bullshit about who may be worthy to ride with you is a joke. everyone who attends pays the same admission fee, and riders of ALL levels should be encouraged to use the track, to learn the limits of themselves and their bikes.


paul.

Wow you have obviously taken it to heart    Do you concider your self one of those hooligans 

[loony888]

Wow you have obviously taken it to heart    Do you concider your self one of those hooligans 

my god! just how self absorbed are you? did you even get my point? there's so many new riders around these days you're bound to find a few "hooligans" everywhere. what makes you think the track is just for middle aged wannabe's with expensive toys?

paul.
oh, i can post little faces that roll their eyes too. see?
p.s, i am a middle aged wannabe with expensive toys as well.

[Spider]

Paul,

why do you want these people near you at all? young, inexperienced but arrogant and dangerous (everyyone is the first two but it's the second two thrown into the mix that we are discussing)....I understand your point about getting them off the road and completely agree (it's the reason I held a licence for 7 years before buying a bike, I knew the attitude was all wrong)...

but I also understand Vince's point about not having them next to him on the track either (we have the same 'elitist' attitude in bicycle racing/training - it's not snobbery - it's self preservation of the entire group).

If their attitude and approach is wrong...they shouldn't get the privilege of participation.

[loony888]

Paul,

why do you want these people near you at all? young, inexperienced but arrogant and dangerous (everyyone is the first two but it's the second two thrown into the mix that we are discussing)....I understand your point about getting them off the road and completely agree (it's the reason I held a licence for 7 years before buying a bike, I knew the attitude was all wrong)...

but I also understand Vince's point about not having them next to him on the track either (we have the same 'elitist' attitude in bicycle racing/training - it's not snobbery - it's self preservation of the entire group).

If their attitude and approach is wrong...they shouldn't get the privilege of participation.

i didn't say i wanted them near me, i get nervous watching some guys ride around the streets, i certainly don't want them taking some strange line as i'm about to overtake them at track speeds! but, i have enough experience to steer clear of inexperienced riders and from previous track days the marshalls have been very good at moving them to a group that more suited their ability, and i have no argument about that, for the good of everybody who wants to enjoy their day. that said, i find it galling that vince seems to think they have no place there, because he's worried about their actions affecting him. again, the bottom line is we all pay the same track day fees and we're all aware of the risks to those of us there, the organisers _should_ keep riders of similar skills in similar groups (maybe that's vince' problem? he's in the right group for his skill level) but even if they don't,that's life. and how can they assess a riders arrogance or danger level until they see his behaviour on track?  they can't can they. Add to that that riders can and do get thrown out for consistent dangerous behaviour, which i also agree with by the way, some people never learn, but most are ignorant of on track etiquette even after a briefing and the best way to learn is to make mistakes and have them corrected, that's how we all learn, and most of us remember that. most of us.

paul.

[Jukie]

both all good points but all im worried about is that neither of my boys here get hurt, so we should just leave it at that ok.

[Spider]

Add to that that riders can and do get thrown out for consistent dangerous behaviour, which i also agree with by the way, some people never learn, but most are ignorant of on track etiquette even after a briefing and the best way to learn is to make mistakes and have them corrected, that's how we all learn, and most of us remember that. most of us.

paul.

agreed 

same with a licence...they have access until they consistently do the wrong thing....and then they are eliminated by the road marshalls (  ) or accident.