knee down?

[Shifty]

Here's a question:

I have heard from people not to drop your knee unless you plan on putting it on the ground. They say its a bad habit? Anyway I have this mentality now that if I lean in I can't pull my knee off the bike unless I plan on getting it to the ground. judging from what I have seen here I assume that's not true?

[pennyrobber]

I would say there is nothing wrong with putting you knee out when not intending to put it on the ground. For one it gets more of you weight off the bike. Secondly it gives you a way to finely adjust your weight during the turn.

[Cider]

Every track school I've been to they've told us to get our knees out there regardless.

[Monster Dave]

Here's a question:

I have heard from people not to drop your knee unless you plan on putting it on the ground. They say its a bad habit? Anyway I have this mentality now that if I lean in I can't pull my knee off the bike unless I plan on getting it to the ground. judging from what I have seen here I assume that's not true?

My take on your question goes back to the question of where you are riding. If you're riding on the road, then you really should never be out there putting a knee down. Riding like that on the road is risky. I know that's a personal opinion, but it's unsafe to ride on the road like you'd ride on the track.

Regarding it being a bad habit or not, lots of people have various opinions about this. I'd be more inclined to say that the majority of the people who ride ( like idiots on the road) like that, put a knee out because they think that it looks cool but have no concept of what it really means to attempt to do that. However, if you're taking your bike to the track, it can be very good practice and help you as Charles said to get a better feel for what it feels like to start to move your body in that direction.

You have to keep in mind though that throwing a knee out is about the last thing that really makes any difference in getting your body into the proper position. If your body position is good, all that you will need to do is literally "drop" your knee. If you're pushing it out, you're not in the right position. And keep in mind that you can get to maximum lean angle without ever putting a knee down if you're in the proper position. Exercising the practice is only going to help you if you're working on the whole overall position (arm, elbow, shoulders, back, hips, feet, and knee). If you know anyone who's skilled and not out to "hot dog" around, ask them for advice, to follow you, or to take pics of you as you go through turns on the track. Pictures are hugely valuable to help you see your position and mark the areas where you need to refine your posture. If you're feeling nervous or tense while working on your position, take a deep breath and release it before you move into position and relax. You'd be surprised at how many people forget to breath.

[pennyrobber]

That's a good point about proper body position being the most important thing. I have seen people on the track who you could tell were just trying to get a knee on the ground without regard for proper body position. I remember one particular example of a guy who had his rear way off the seat but his torso very crossed up and almost still right above the tank. His knee was sticking out bolt strait and indeed was on the ground. The bike was hardly leaned over and he was actually holding many people up in the corners (beginner track session). So his knee was down but his technique was awful.

[Cider]

Sticking a knee out isn't critical, but it usually requires getting up on your toes and opening up your hips, both elements of good form.  It might be silly on the street, but I think it's good practice on the track.

[EvilSteve]

I guess my opinion is a little different then. I believe that you should stick to a particular body position so that it becomes second nature. Just because your knee's out doesn't mean you need to touch down. Nor does having your knee in mean that you're riding at a safe speed. Having the correct body position is important so I advocate riding with the correct form whether your knee is on the deck or not. If you're never going to a track & are never going to drag your knee then don't bother sticking it out & learn how to ride without doing so.

Just for the record, the other side of the form on the track point is that there are plenty of people who are really, really fast who don't have the "correct" body position & can drag at will. I've good good form & good lines but I'm relatively slow on the track. My friend doesn't have as good form as I do but he smokes me. I still reach a bit with my knee but mostly because it's fun to drag it.

There are more important points to form than your knee but opening your hips & facing the corner exit is important and is one step toward having one's knee on the deck.

[Shifty]

Thanks guys great replies. I went out today and really tossed the 620 around since I am feeling more comfortable on her. Tried a lot of the things I have learned from this site and I have to say, between these tips and the new Duc, I feel 100x more confident around corners than I did on my Katana. I found myself really leaning off the bike with much confidence, and my corner speeds and stability were much better.

I discovered that before when I was trying to corner I would just move over on the seat, stick my leg out there, and lean in. I was way crossed up and in no way comfortable. Someone mentioned to "kiss the mirror", and this was the jewel for me. As soon as I got my head down and looking into the turn the rest of my body fell where it needed to be and I was haulin! Only thing I'm still baffled by is counter steer... but I plan on researching that quite a bit.

Of course I'm no Nicky Hayden yet, but I feel like I'm on the right track anyway. 

Thanks guys!     

[orangelion03]

Ever hit a Bots dot when dragging your knee?  Hurts like a motherfu..., er, it hurts.  Loads.

On the other hand, all those old guys on their dustbin fairinged bikes did pretty well before all that knee dragging nonsense came along.  Damn that Ago guy!!!

Yes, I'm old.  But not THAT old.