Calling all engineers....

[Triple J]

I think it also means that the person has some discipline, patience and perseverance to get through 4 years of tough schooling.

True. I didn't mean to marginalize the accomplishment, because it is one of the more challenging college degrees.

Actually, ill say for a fact that for most of common problems that you come across you dont need to know where the answer comes from. Its the highly technical ones that require you really dig deep into the math and understanding.

A good engineer knows the answer, or close to it, before the program spits one out. That was my point. Relying blindly on a program for any answer without knowing how it is being derived  is a bad idea.

[MonsterRider]

A question related to liability of components designed by engineers versus non-engineers.  If a component used on one of our bikes for instance was to fail resulting in injury or worse death what legal recourse would someone have toward the designer if they are not an engineer.  What liability insurance is required for engineers designing components for use on public roads?  Is registration as a professional engineer not required in order to get such insurance?

I have often wondered how all these fabricators of custom bikes or cars can register vehicles without this type of insurance.  I know that all lot of these component manufacturers get around this by stating that their components are for "Race Use Only" which absolve them of all responsibility should the component be used on the street.

Food for thought.

[The Bearded Duc]

So my GF and I have been talking about moving back to where I'm from, NY. That being said, I'll have to wait a bit to regain residency so that school is cheaper but I have decided to take on a few classes that satisfy both majors.

Having to wait a bit will afford me the time to research which schools to look in to, make sure all of my paperwork is in order, and to look in to financial aid.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that CAD classes would be good to take, does anyone know if they are part of getting an ME degree or would I have to add that to the existing degree requirements?

[sno_duc]

True. I didn't mean to marginalize the accomplishment, because it is one of the more challenging college degrees.

A good engineer knows the answer, or close to it, before the program spits one out. That was my point. Relying blindly on a program for any answer without knowing how it is being derived  is a bad idea.

I've got a fun story about that.
Was working at a job shop in Golden,Co as a machinist.
Bad engineer calls Monday afternoon, tells the owner (one of the best machinist I've ever had the honor of working with) "need a part Wednesday first thing, faxing a print right now".
Tuesday, Randy grabs the print to go hunt down the correct material, notices an error. Calls bad engineer to point out problem and is told " I'm the make the beast with two backsing engineer, my prints are always right, just make the part".
Wednasday 0700 bad engineer shows up to collect part. Randy hands him a baggie full of chips. Bad engineer    "WTF". Randy "When the I.D. is larger than the O.D. all that's left is chips", he then reach in his pocket and gives the correct part , " I knew what you really wanted, next time I tell you there's a problem, you might want to listen".

[mitt]

I have worked with a lot of bad engineers, and a few good ones.  Yes taking things apart and owning guns, bikes, cars, motorcycles is definitely sided toward the good ones, but no guarantee.  The best engineer I have worked with had a math and physics degree - not an engineering degree.  He broke down problems into their basic building blocks and then went up in complexity from there.


mitt

[Randy@StradaFab]

A question related to liability of components designed by engineers versus non-engineers.  If a component used on one of our bikes for instance was to fail resulting in injury or worse death what legal recourse would someone have toward the designer if they are not an engineer.  What liability insurance is required for engineers designing components for use on public roads?  Is registration as a professional engineer not required in order to get such insurance?

Engineer or not, liability insurance is not a requirement to sell a product. I'm not an engineer but I'm looking at liability insurance for the fabrication business I'm starting. So far, the quotes are 5-7k a year for product liability insurance. Insurance companies don't care if your an engineer as long as you pay the premium.
  A while back I told our plant engineer I was going to build a Ti frame for a Ducati. He looks at me and says, "how can you do that, you're not an engineer". LOL You had to know this guy to appreciate that.
  One day I asked our process engineer, who is a mechanical engineer that graduated from Auburn, about modulus of elasticity of different metals. He wasn't sure exactly what it was but vaguely remembered reading about it one time.
I doubt that most of those guys building custom choppers carry any liability insurance and I'm pretty sure Jesse James is not an engineer.

[He Man]

A good engineer knows the answer, or close to it, before the program spits one out. That was my point. Relying blindly on a program for any answer without knowing how it is being derived  is a bad idea.

Oh, i got your point now. Yea, a person who UNDERSTANDS engineering will know if the answer is right or not. off the top of your head, you should know if the number is too big or small and you can go back and chekc what value would of given you the error from there.

"When the I.D. is larger than the O.D. all that's left is chips"

The plane takes off!!!!!

[Triple J]

I've got a fun story about that.

Classic! 

I work in heavy civil, not mechanical...but I have yet to see a perfect set of plans go out for bid. Including mine.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that CAD classes would be good to take, does anyone know if they are part of getting an ME degree or would I have to add that to the existing degree requirements?

A CAD class was part of the ME degree where I got my undergrad. (I took it before switching to GE).

[orangelion03]

Regarding CAD classes.  If you are a registered student (doesnt really matter where or what field), you can buy student versions of some software relatively cheap.  I know ProE had it, and I think Solidworks does too.  You can then use the built-in tutors to learn the basic operations and go from there.  There may be online classes as well.

I am a degree mechanical engineer and I knew long before I graduated to pay attention to the guys that would be fabricating or assembling what I was designing.  I had the benefit of a father who is a "natural" engineer (no degree but years of practical experience), and while I was in school I worked part-time and summers as a technician for the test equipment design team of a large aerospace corporation. 

[sno_duc]

It was an AutoCad print.
In my decades in machine shops, I've noticed that the old hand drawn prints have fewer errors compared to AutoCad prints.
Plus they were scaled so can use a rule to deduce diminsions, with Autocad to many are "Scaled to fit".

Another arrogant engineer story.
Back in the early 80's was working for Rockwell Int.
Anyone here familar with "compounding tolerences"??
Young (ink still wet on sheepskin) cocky engineer designed a window frame all 304 ss.
Basically one side had 1/4-20 tapped holes spaced 1" ± 0.015, mating part had 9/64" holes spaced 1" ± 0.015.
Being lazy he cut and pasted 1" ±0.015 and used it every where, instead of correctly drawing 1"±0.015, 2"±0.015, 3".......
So, when I made the parts, the tapped hole side was drilled and tapped 0.990 ±0.001 spacing, the hole side was drilled 1.010 ±0.001 spacing.
Needless to say only 3 or 4 bolts could be installed.
He was livid, stormed in to see my supervisor. My boss grabbed a pair of dail calipers, checked the parts against the print, and told the cocky engineer that "the parts were in tolerence, and if he wished to push it my boss would call the engineer's boss".
Yes, I had to do the job twice. However it was worth it because the engineers started to treat the machine shop with a little more respect.

[Drjones]

Classic! 

I work in heavy civil, not mechanical...but I have yet to see a perfect set of plans go out for bid. Including mine.

A CAD class was part of the ME degree where I got my undergrad. (I took it before switching to GE).

From personal experience it is best to take CAD courses at a junior college rather than an university, because the instructors at junior colleges come from the real world and the instructors at universities come from universities.  Situations may vary, but definitely interview the instructor to make sure they didn't just take the 1 week course from the CAD vendor last week and are "teaching" this week.

I've got a fun story about that. . . .

Oldest story in the book told by every machinist.

Oh, i got your point now. Yea, a person who UNDERSTANDS engineering will know if the answer is right or not. off the top of your head, you should know if the number is too big or small and you can go back and chekc what value would of given you the error from there.

The plane takes off!!!!!

"Off the top of their head"  No, unless they've seen the particular design before or something similar before.  I'm assuming the reference was to FEA for "the program."  The saying for FEA is that it will make a good engineer great and a bad engineer dangerous.  A good engineer will correctly analyze the loading conditions and have done some basic calculations before setting up a FEA model then compare the results which should be within a small percentage difference from one another.  A good engineer doesn't 'need' FEA, but it helps interrogate designs to make them more efficient.

[Punx Clever]

Purdue's ME program has everyone go into the machine shop at least once to build a hammer from a piece of brass hex stock.  Hands are held through the project and it's very cute and cuddly, but at least it's an intro.

OTOH, I spent quite a bit of time working in the student machine shop as the shop assistant... and good lord, I saw some STUPID SHIT.  Ever see an engineer try to cut a garden hose with a tube cutter (see below)?  I have.  I told him it wouldn't work... he tried anyways.


So like many above me... I wouldn't trust the guys I went to school with any further than I can throw them.  They had all the equations and book knowledge to get the degree... but hadn't gotten good at applying that knowledge yet.