Collet direction and other valve questions

[csorin]

In the middle of my valve adjustment and I can't figure out which direction my collets sit.  There is a definite mark on one side of the collet as though it has been depressing against a lip, but neither side has developed a flat spot.  I'm not sure if the marked side goes against the closer (down) or against the valve stem (up).  Thanks guys.

[ducpainter]

If you look closely at both sides there will be a mark. On one side it is closer to the inside of the collet, the outside on the other.

The side that has the mark closer to the inside of the collet, from the groove in the valve, goes up.

I have to use a magnifying glass to see them. 

[He Man]

there should be a mark corresponding to the top lip of the valve stem.

i just use a red marker and give it a quick swipe. makes it loads easier because ill remove the collects several times to get the right shim installed.

if you install them the wrong way and the shim does not fit then just flip em and hope for the best. new collets dont really show the dents or flatspots well.

[csorin]

Thanks guys.  Another question for you, that I've never seen addressed in any of the tutorials, the Snyder book, or otherwise.  If I replace a closer shim with a larger sized shim, will this affect my opener?  In other words, say I add .01 mm to my closer, will I then have to subtract .01 mm from my opener?  Are they independent of each other?

[ducpainter]

Thanks guys.  Another question for you, that I've never seen addressed in any of the tutorials, the Snyder book, or otherwise.  If I replace a closer shim with a larger sized shim, will this affect my opener?  In other words, say I add .01 mm to my closer, will I then have to subtract .01 mm from my opener?  Are they independent of each other?

It will affect the opener, but not necessarily by exactly the same amount. The change in closer would be a good starting point.

It's always best to do the closers first.

[devimau]

no, it won't affect the opener, two different things.....

[csorin]

Heading to the dealership tomorrow for some new closers.  My intuition says it should affect the opener (unloaded gap), but I guess we'll see tomorrow.  Thanks guys for the varying opinions on here.

[He Man]

If the closer is too big, it means that the closing rocker armis being  pushed down, which will force the opening rocker arm to push down as well. So yes it will affect it, but its not directly related. If it really is way to big of a shim then you cant even get the opening rocker arm to slide over (regardless if there is a opening shim there or not) this is the case on a DS1000 irrc.  and as dp said, do the closers first, and check for binding, then  do your openers.

[csorin]

Alright, thanks guys for all the helpful tips.  This board once again helped me out.  Bike is buttoned up and test ride has been completed.  It runs fine, with maybe a little more clatter from the valves (might account to the openers being loosened to spec).

It seems I had been pushing entirely too hard on my closing rocker arms while reading the closer clearances.  In another thread, it was recommended that you be firm rather than all out strength.  With a firm press, all the closers were in spec.  They passed both the feeler (.05 or less), and the finger test (no movement with rocker up, rotated with pressure on the rocker). 

Now for an embarrassing question.  I used earplugs to plug the oil galleys in the vertical cylinder.  I may have left one in there (a tiny chance that is gnawing at my brain).  What symptoms would occur if this is the case?  I just ran the bike for a few miles up to operating temp.  So far everything seems to be running properly.

[csorin]

Wait a minute, now reading through the LT Snyder book again, he says there is only an oil galley in the vertical exhaust side.  I could have sworn I plugged the intake side as well.  Maybe I'm remembering this wrong?  Is there an oil galley hole on the intake side?

[ducpainter]

Pretty sure there is a drain in both heads.

After extended running oil will pool in the head possibly causing smoking because oil will run down the guides.

It would be worth pulling the covers to look.

[devimau]

csorin......what happened with your intuition?

[csorin]

Haha, if I had x-ray vision I'd be all the merrier.  My paranoia bit hard this morning so I took the battery tray off and opened the heads.  As I suspected...nothing .  Everything was as it should be, no earplugs to be found.  Buttoned everything back up and had a non-eventful ride to work.  Bike is pulling hard, and I'm glad to have my first valve-job done.

Thanks again to all those involved here.  Wouldn't have been able to do it without you guys.  It was a two day job, but I think next time I should be able to finish it up in a few hours, maybe less if few adjustments are needed.  Again thanks.

[uclabiker06]

 

[devimau]

wow, I just read this.....sorry he man but you're way off......
if the closer shim is too big the clearance will be 0, it will put force on the rocker and this will put force on the cam lobe, drag and ruin both rocker and cam, nothing to do with the opener.
if the closer clearance is too big the valve will still be @ the same spot thanks to the closer return spring, so the valve will be @ it's seat unless the cam lobe boss it to the open position, so the opener clearance will be the same than before.
The valve lash is determined by the gap between the rocker arm and the cam lobe, the valve remains @ it's seat thanks to the return spring, not to the closer clearance.

If the closer is too big, it means that the closing rocker armis being  pushed down, which will force the opening rocker arm to push down as well. So yes it will affect it, but its not directly related. If it really is way to big of a shim then you cant even get the opening rocker arm to slide over (regardless if there is a opening shim there or not) this is the case on a DS1000 irrc.  and as dp said, do the closers first, and check for binding, then  do your openers.