Swapping to dual-spark motor... what coils to use?

[duc_fan]

Hi all,

Saw a post on ADV rider from a long time ago where a guy swapped a 1000DS motor into a Cagiva Gran Canyon, and all they did was remap the ECU and add dual-outlet coils.  I couldn't get ahold of the poster, so I don't know what coil packs they used.

The Gran Canyon uses the Marelli 16M ECU.  Same as the 748, late 916, 996, ST2, ST4, and a few others.  The Monster 900 and SS900 used the similar Marelli 15M unit, so I'd imagine the same dual-plug compatibility would apply.

The Multi 1000DS, Sport Classic 1000DS, SS1000DS, and Monster 1000 all used coil packs with one input just like the single-plug bikes, but they had two output terminals (one for each spark plug).  Need to know if any of you have upgraded an older bike to dual-spark (particularly one with a 15M or 16M ECU), and what did you do for the coil packs?  Not sure if it would hurt the ECU to have different primary coil resistance, or if you could just hook 'em up and go.  (Obviously, the ECU would need remapped for the fuel/air needs of the 992cc 1000DS mill)

What say you all?

Thanks!

[Speeddog]

'08S2R1k (DS) here in the shop measures 0.8 ohm primary.
'01 M900 here measures 4.1 ohm primary.

Based on that, I wouldn't plug the DS coils into the 15M ECU.

But get someone more 'sparky' in on this.

[hnracing]

Hi,
It would help if you confirmed the model & year & ECU of the bike you want to put a 1000DS engine in.
And what parts you will reuse from the bike and what you will use from the 1000DS "bike".
The ECU map do have some parameters that are depened of the coils & injectors you will use
- Dwell time table
- Injector dead time table
- Injector phase table/map
But any combination will be possible, just have to make the correct adjustments in the tables/maps.

I am running a 1000DS engine in my M600-96 with a modified 15M ECU.
/Henrik

[Speeddog]

Chris at California Cycleworks could well have quite a bit of relevant info with all of the work he's done on his coils.

[duc_fan]

Hi,
It would help if you confirmed the model & year & ECU of the bike you want to put a 1000DS engine in.
And what parts you will reuse from the bike and what you will use from the 1000DS "bike".
The ECU map do have some parameters that are depened of the coils & injectors you will use
- Dwell time table
- Injector dead time table
- Injector phase table/map
But any combination will be possible, just have to make the correct adjustments in the tables/maps.

I am running a 1000DS engine in my M600-96 with a modified 15M ECU.
/Henrik

If I were to do this swap, it would be a 2000 Cagiva Gran Canyon with a Marelli 16M ECU.

Motor (block, cylinders, heads) from donor.

Coils would be whatever dual-outlet coil can be made to work best with the 16M ECU (MTS, SS, Monster, etc).

Not sure on injectors and throttle bodies, would depend on the price and availability of 1000DS units.  I'd probably try to use the stock GC hardware, since the displacement isn't that different.  I figure that remapping the 16M ECU should account for the new fuel/air requirements.  If it can't cope, then I'd switch to 1000DS TBs and injectors.

It's starting to sound like I could use pretty much whatever parts and pieces I want, but if I'm gonna do this, I should invest in the fully programmable MyECU. (<--link)

[duc_fan]

Chris at California Cycleworks could well have quite a bit of relevant info with all of the work he's done on his coils.

Good point... If I recall correctly, they listed a "dual spark" upgrade option with the MBP Testarosso heads for the 900 desmodue, so they must know how to handle the new spark needs.

[hnracing]

OK!
Gran Canyon with 16M ECU.
Coils: Use the Ducati std dual output coils. I prefer the older type Champion BAE 800 B. Not the newer black one "Beru" .
TB: Use M900ie TB or 1000DS TB. The injectors is much better (Pico IWP043 Brown, later on Pico IWP162 White)
If 1000DS TB try to get the old type without the idle steppervalve.
TPS: Make sure you use a PF3C/00 the old non linear type, small with slotted mounting hole.
Eprom: Your GC eprom can be used as a base.
Dwell table will be ok.
The injector dead time differs but as long as the rectifier keeps the voltage stable around 13,5V
the mapping of the fuel will take care of the difference.
The injector phasing you really do not have to care about.
The sparkmap, closed & WOT spark tables have to be adjusted for dual spark.
And also the fuel map.

I strongly recommend you to stay with the 16M ECU.

/Henrik

[duc_fan]

OK!
Gran Canyon with 16M ECU.
Coils: Use the Ducati std dual output coils. I prefer the older type Champion BAE 800 B. Not the newer black one "Beru" .
TB: Use M900ie TB or 1000DS TB. The injectors is much better (Pico IWP043 Brown, later on Pico IWP162 White)
If 1000DS TB try to get the old type without the idle steppervalve.
TPS: Make sure you use a PF3C/00 the old non linear type, small with slotted mounting hole.
Eprom: Your GC eprom can be used as a base.
Dwell table will be ok.
The injector dead time differs but as long as the rectifier keeps the voltage stable around 13,5V
the mapping of the fuel will take care of the difference.
The injector phasing you really do not have to care about.
The sparkmap, closed & WOT spark tables have to be adjusted for dual spark.
And also the fuel map.

I strongly recommend you to stay with the 16M ECU.

/Henrik

Thanks for the info!