The Height Challenged w/ a new Monster!

[jcmjrt]

HI, I'm new and posted an introduction above. As stated a couple of times, I'm height challenged (AKA 5'2" and eyes of blue ) Anyway, I've only ridden my new to me bike (2010 Ducati Monster 696 ABS) a coupe of times but know that a few ergonomic changes would improve the bike a great deal for me. The bike came with the Ducati low seat so I can touch down with my toes (and I already have Lady Daytona boots).

I'm thinking that I may do a ride-in to Corbin and get a saddle made to lower, narrow (effectively lower), and  level the seat so it doesn't throw me forward like the Ducati seat does. I want to sit a little more upright/relaxed. I wonder if they do a heated seat for the Monster? I'm only planning this bike for short twisty rides (1 - 4 hours kinda' thing) but warm is still nice. I'll probably give them a call next week and talk with 'em. If anyone else has done this, please speak up and tell me your experience.

I'd also like the controls up and back to me a little. I've been reading threads on here and it seems that quite a few people have put on Rizoma Risers and/or gotten the 29mm Rizoma Bars to bring the controls back and up. I'm wondering if this will be sufficient? I'm surprised when I see folks talking about how short they are and then it comes out that they are 5'7" or so. I'm 5'2" so that's my scale. Will the dual Rizoma 60 mm riser and Rizoma handlebar mix mean that I need new abs line, and brake lines as well as clutch and throttle cables ?? Any idea how much longer the brake lines, abs line and cable would need to be? I really would like to get a good comfortable, reliable controls set-up so words of wissdom are welcome.

[Howie]

I suggest one step at a time, seat first.  You can probably find a local shop or follow (sort of since yous is the new generation) this http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=2513.msg32290#msg32290

Also read this if you haven't already  http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=2513.msg32290#msg32290

[stopintime]

(Howie beat me to most of it, but anyway...)

In my experience, it's better to do modifying step by step.

That would mean to build a seat first and see how you feel then. It being lower will change the relative height of the controls, so you might not need risers. If you decide to go forward after the seat, maybe Rizoma bars with their sweep/pull back is enough...

Heated seat? Usually hands get colder first, but of course I don't know how you feel.

[He Man]

the seat goes a long way, however, i actually added height back onto the seat since im at a point where im very comfortable riding a bike where i cant tippy toe bot hfeet. I just hang off at lights. When im in my  1 piece i cannot touch either feet when sitting.

This is how i cut mine. i did the passenger seat too. and the seat is actually pretty freaking heavy compared to stock seeing how theres two gel pads in it.





I then had a new cover stitched so it looks like this now

[S21FOLGORE]

This was what I wrote in 2011 summer, in reply to someone who was asking "seat height help" for his wife (4'10") (and the bike in question was 696).

As howie and stopintime mentioned, you should look at the suspensions also. Or, I'd say, look at the rear suspension first (before cutting down seat, or put extra sole on the boots.)

I am short , not 4'10" short but 5'6" short. I am also really light weight. (with full gear, about 135 lb - 140 lb).
I assume your wife would be even lighter. Take her to a dealer and let her sit on a bike, and watch how much the rear end of the bike will sink. Most probably , almost nothing.

My bike is 05 S4R. With stock rear shock springs, I had to back the preload adjuster out all the way in order to achieve proper sag. (that is, roughly 1/3 of suspension stroke should be used with a rider on board .) I ended up ordering Ohlins with lighter spring and that made quite a difference not only while riding but also at the stop. I am pretty sure stock spring rate on 696 would be too high for her. So I'd suggest getting the shock spring that matches her weight. You don't have to buy the expensive rear shock unit, just the spring. The suspension that can "sink" when the rider sit on a bike will practically lowers seat height and lighter spring on the rear shock is a much better solution than cutting down the seat.  And it will make the bike a lot more enjoyable & safer to ride. ( The feeling of riding a bike with too stiff spring is something hard to understand if you are average built (or heavier than average) person. )

Also, there are certain things to learn, such as how to put your feet down at the stop (if you're short rider ,or riding a bike with ridiculously high seat)

The original thread
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=51903.msg952270#msg952270

Anyhow...
I'd suggest adjusting rear suspension first ( I'm not going to ask you how much do you weigh. I weigh around 135 lb with FULL GEAR, and the stock spring rate was too high. Go figure ... )
If the rear suspension does not stroke at all when you sit on a seat, you have to back off the preload.

Also, as howie and stopintime said, don't change too many things at one time.
If you lower the seat, it would effectively make hand controls higher. (also foot pegs get closer to the seat sitting point, so, for your lower body, it has the same effect as rising the pegs.) Do one at a time.

As a short and light weight rider, I recommend adjusting rear suspension first. Maybe you just need rear shock spring in proper spring rate, and don't need to lower the seat at all.

[Howie]

This was what I wrote in 2011 summer, in reply to someone who was asking "seat height help" for his wife (4'10") (and the bike in question was 696).

The original thread
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=51903.msg952270#msg952270

Anyhow...
I'd suggest adjusting rear suspension first ( I'm not going to ask you how much do you weigh. I weigh around 135 lb with FULL GEAR, and the stock spring rate was too high. Go figure ... )
If the rear suspension does not stroke at all when you sit on a seat, you have to back off the preload.

Also, as howie and stopintime said, don't change too many things at one time.
If you lower the seat, it would effectively make hand controls higher. (also foot pegs get closer to the seat sitting point, so, for your lower body, it has the same effect as rising the pegs.) Do one at a time.

As a short and light weight rider, I recommend adjusting rear suspension first. Maybe you just need rear shock spring in proper spring rate, and don't need to lower the seat at all.

Yup on rear suspension sag first. 

[jcmjrt]

OK, some good ideas...and a couple of threads I need to peruse. I'll see about setting the suspension next; we've got Monday off so I think I'll do it then. I'll also probably go ahead and make a ride-in appointment for a couple of weeks out. My experience is a saddle is make or break for a bike and if my *** ain't happy, I ain't happy.

I have already done the thick boots thing...that's why I have the Lady Daytona boots; they are known for adding height/reach.

[Slide Panda]

Anyhow...
I'd suggest adjusting rear suspension first ( I'm not going to ask you how much do you weigh. I weigh around 135 lb with FULL GEAR, and the stock spring rate was too high. Go figure ... )
If the rear suspension does not stroke at all when you sit on a seat, you have to back off the preload.

Also, as howie and stopintime said, don't change too many things at one time.
If you lower the seat, it would effectively make hand controls higher. (also foot pegs get closer to the seat sitting point, so, for your lower body, it has the same effect as rising the pegs.) Do one at a time.

As a short and light weight rider, I recommend adjusting rear suspension first. Maybe you just need rear shock spring in proper spring rate, and don't need to lower the seat at all.

Please don't confuse spring rate and preload. At that weight you will need a softer springs for proper suspension action and sag. Spring force is a constant which is not effected by preload. Preload simply changes geometry. If the springs are too stiff, they will always be too stiff. Reducing the preload would possibly lower the seat, but the bike will not sag anymore than before, and not as much as it should

I'm not as sure about the 696 generation of monster, but on the previous gen it was possible to lower them quite a bit with different rear suspension link and raising the fork tubes in the triples. Doing both can, when done right, lower your seat height, while retaining your previous rake angle. Though stuff like the trail will change... but hey, we're moving big bits of the bike.
One issue that lowered monsters like this had was the speed bump. The header from the horizontal cylinder was that much closer, and might take a hit. But I don't think this is much an issue with the newer bikes with their up-n-around header path.

[S21FOLGORE]

Please don't confuse spring rate and preload.

I am not, and Howie also is not confused.
However, just in case OP might get confused about this subject ...

1) changing preload does NOT make spring stiffer or softer.
2) changing preload does change the amount of initial suspension stroke when
     a rider sits on. That's why you change preload when you have a passenger,
     or heavy luggage for two weeks camping trip, etc.

3) I suggest adjusting the stock suspension first (what you have now), because everything starts from there.
    The stock setting is most probably off for OP anyway. And the rider weight is probably out of adjustment range.
   (need a new spring.) But,  she needs ride for a while how it feels with stock suspension.

4)696 use cantilever style shock mount. So can not alter the ride height by link length.

5)I remember somewhere I've read that stock spring for 696 is a huge compromise.
    it is progressively wound (in order to cover wide operating range.)
   What it means is its action is initially soft, gets stiffer as it stokes (gets progressively stiffer), at near the end of
   stroke it becomes very stiff.

So, my suggestion ...
adjust the stock suspension (both front and rear) as much as possible. Ride around for about three months. Decide whether to get Ohlins or not.
Better rear shock is a good investment in long term.

[Howie]

The 696 is...don't know the numbers...but quite progressive.  If sag is within specs with preload adjustment the spring is good.  This worked out for one short lady I know.

Always start with simple and cheap first

[S21FOLGORE]

The stock spring on 696 shock.
Yeah, it's progressive, maybe "too" progressive.

Well, this is a really rough estimate, because the rate is really sensitive to wire diameter, but....

That spring is very close to a 500 lbs/in starting rate, progressing to about 1000 lb/in.

quote above by mmakay in this thread (photo came from this thread also)

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=14109.0

The number (500 ibs/in at start, close to 1000 lbs/in near the end of stroke) sounds like stock spring is too much of a compromise. Too soft initially, gets too stiff as it strokes ...

However ...

If sag is within specs with preload adjustment the spring is good.  This worked out for one short lady I know.

it worked maybe because of this (500 - 1000 lbs/in ) progressive rate.

BTW, I found this ... (it says the rider is 5'1", and the bike is 696. it doesn't look that bad...)

[jcmjrt]

I do actually understand the diff between pre-load and spring rate. Several years back I took a class on suspension being offered on BARF (Bay Area Riders Forum) by a local hotshot at a chiropractor's office in Redwood City (?) - on the peninsula anyway - and remember a few basics. I ended up changing the shock on my Vegas after about a year of riding and it did need a different and lighter spring to be correct for me. The ride was definitely superior afterwards.

So I should have just about the right amount of time to make up my mind if I need a better shock/lighter spring by say....hmmm Christmas?   I haven't even dared to look at the price of an aftermarket one yet for a Ducati. It made me flinch a little for the Vegas...and I'd just have to bet this is more expensive.

[Raux]

$100 i've heard

[He Man]

$100 is pretty much the industry standard for a shock spring. unless uget an exotic titanium one.