'04 Monster 800i.e. engine stalling

Started by Intrepid, August 10, 2014, 06:32:12 AM

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Intrepid

Bike: 2004 M800i.e.
Mods: Mivv X-Cone slip-ons, K&N Air Filter, evap canister removed. Full stop. No other mechanical mods whatsoever.
16500 (imp)miles on the clock
Normally runs like a top - never failed me.

The other day, riding to gym before work about 5km away, I was idling through parking lot at the gym, 1st gear; bike just dies.

Re-start attempt; pump primes when I turn the key, starter turns over fine, but engine does not fire. Approx 90 minutes later, go back to bike, bike starts. Runs fine. Ride about 300M, bike dies.

At this point, I think maybe breather issue. Open gas cap, bike starts right away. Ride the last 1 KM to work, no issues. At lunch, bike starts without issue on outbound and return trips. After work , engine again does not fire. Pump still primes, starter turns engine over, but no fire. Same symptoms each time.

Wait 20 minutes, bike fires right up. Riding down a big hill at 50-60kp/h on my way home, bike dies again without warning, but oil pressure light remains off as I coast. I figure the wheel driving the engine is keeping the pressure up. Lower to 2nd gear, drop clutch, bikes roars to life. Approx 3 KM further, bike dies again. Bollocks to this, I call recovery. Truck gets here, again about 20 minutes later, bike starts. Screw it, drove it onto the truck anyway.

I must stress that she doesn't sputter or lose power in any way. She just dies, as if I had hit the kill switch. So I doubt it's the coils, because I figure the odds of both going at once are remote, or at the very least I'd be running on only one cylinder or something. There are absolutely no signs of her fading. She just shuts off. She always cranks fine, and  on one occasion I gave her throttle while cranking, I can hear the RPMs rising just a little. But usually, no fire. When I turn her over, I can feel airflow out the exhaust, so the starter is engaging just fine I figure.

So. I'm thinking...

a) Bad gas (i.e. water): Intermittent occurrence points me that way. Too easy. Drain, fill, Go. Not equipped to carry out a specific gravity test at home (anymore), so I'll just drain the stuff.
b) Fuel filter: Same reasoning as above.
c) Fuel pump: Less likely to me, as it primes, and fuel flow does not behave sporadically under loads (until bike just dies, of course), but you never know. I suppose I could bench test it, but the pump is a sluuuut to gain access to.
d) Vapour lock?

I didn't find any damaged wires or fuel/breather line, or any other damage. So I changed the fuel filter, and threw a few capfuls of gas line anti-freeze to deal with possible water in the fuel. I also filled the tank and ran some injector cleaner through. She started right up, as expected. Took her for a spin, about 3-4 km and enough to get the engine temp up (60-70 Celsius), and the same symptoms came right back. She just died without warning. After about a 20 minute wait, she fired again. Rode her home. Another odd thing is that when I press the start button, the engine cranks over but doesn't stop. Normally, the engine will turn over and will stop cranking automatically if the engine doesn't fire after a given period of time (about 5-8 seconds). Now, if I try to immediately after it stalls, it just cranks until I turn the key to off or press the kill switch.

Another theory is that she's running lean. I installed the new slipons about a month ago. Never had any issues until now. Could it be that the high flow air filter, coupled with a higher flow exhaust, are causing me to run lean? In any case, I pulled my plugs: The vertical cylinder plug is showing some carbon fouling (rich) and the horizontal cylinder appears normal.

Then, there's the possibility of a worse case scenario; that my ECU is starting to pack it in. That would be pretty lame on a bike with such low mileage.

Is there a way to read the codes without the ridiculously over-priced mathesis tester? The nearest Ducati dealer is two hours away. I'm an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer, so I feel as though I should be able to resolve any parts changing on my own. But Ducati sure makes electrical diagnosis a PITA. I own the factory maintenance manual for the bike, but there is no troubleshooting guide.

Thoughts and opinions sought. Please and thank you.

thorn14

Bike dies and the dash is still on with lights and all?
M620 turned M800 but then back to M620 after the M800 died at 110k, and now to Multi 1000.

Intrepid

Yes. Forgot to mention that. Bike dies, lights and dash stay on. In fact, sometimes I can just hit the start button (without cycling the key to off and on) and she fires, but normally she just cranks and cranks and cranks.

I just put in new plugs. Now, she sputtered a bit but kept running, and a few minutes later died again. Hit the start button, and she fired, but with a little hesitation. I was only running it in my driveway.

thorn14

Someone more knowledgable than me may have an idea.

I'd check the fuse for the fuel pump, but not sure what after that.

The plugs, when you removed them did they look lean to back up your theory? What do they look like now?
M620 turned M800 but then back to M620 after the M800 died at 110k, and now to Multi 1000.

Howie

Won't hurt to change the gas filter.  While in there you can see if there is water and debris in the tank and inspect the hoses, which could be your problem.  If needed, replace with hose that meets SAE 30R10 spec.

SpikeC

 He changed the fuel filter. It sounds heat related to me. If it was a BMW I would say Hall effect sensor.
Spike Cornelius
  PDX
   2009 M1100S Assorted blingy odds and ends(now gone)
2008 Bimota DB5R  woo-Hoo!
   1965 T100SC

Intrepid

All the fuses are fine. The past couple of days, it only warms up to about 50-60 deg C before dying out. Normally, with the recent heat wave here in SE Ontario, she normally ran at about 90-100C at low speeds in town, but once went as high as 110C sitting at a red light.

How do you figure it might be a heat issue? Please elaborate.

SpikeC

 The engine warms up and dies. It cools down a bit and starts. It warms back up and it dies. It cools back down and it starts.
The BMW K100 had a Hall effect sensor in the front of the engine and would display this behavior when the sensor was marginal.
Spike Cornelius
  PDX
   2009 M1100S Assorted blingy odds and ends(now gone)
2008 Bimota DB5R  woo-Hoo!
   1965 T100SC

brad black

when it has stalled and won't restart, does the fuel pump run when you are cranking it?

you'll need to put your head against the tank to hear it, or use a test light to check for power at the connector.
Brad The Bike Boy

http://www.bikeboy.org

Intrepid

About the heat theory: on many occasions, the bike fires right up again after stalling, so the temperature hasn't had a chance to drop. As to the fuel pump, I believe it does run fine. At the very least, it primes when I turn the key, and the bike runs and drives for about 10 minutes before stalling.

bagodoosh

Quote from: Intrepid on August 10, 2014, 06:32:12 AM
Is there a way to read the codes without the ridiculously over-priced mathesis tester?
VAG KKL usb cable (either CH34x or FTDI chipset) ~ $10 US
fiat 3 to 16 pin obd2 adapter ~ $5 US
guzziDiag software for windows - free

that's a setup for windows laptop; for a pad/phone it would be slitely different.