Tuning my FCR's and Ignitech to run E85?

[Rudemouthsky]

I'd like to continue this convo where Howie left off here;

E85 in your bike would require major timing and rejeting.  Main jets might need to be increased by as much as 50%.  Btu content of E85 is also considerably less.  In round numbers, a gallon of gasoline has 125,000 BTUs, E10 120,000 BTUs and E85 a whopping 85,000.  This is why fuel economy and performance is reduced with E85.  You will need to advance ignition timing and bump the compression way up, probably around 13-15:1 to see optimum performance out of E85.  Then you have to worry about reduced range on a tank and fuel availability.  As far as I know, 0 in NYC and less than 100 in the whole state.

my JE Pistons have a comp ratio of 11:1 but I don't know the science behind calculating an appropriate octane level for a given compression ratio. This is something I'd really like to do...E85 has a ton of potential as a cheap race fuel with its 105 octane and I'd also like to make my moto as earth friendly as possible. I'm willing to put in the time and follow the instructions of the smarter ppl here to achieve this.

[oldndumb]

Maybe one of these might add to your research. The hotrod.com article is probably the most interesting.

http://www.fuelexpert.co.za/octanetesting.php

http://www.fuel-testers.com/gasoline_octane_and_ethanol_E10.html

http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-0611-e85-ethanol-fuel-test/

http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html

http://autocalc.onlinedyno.com/compression.php

[Howie]

Not much to add to that post.  IMO, E 85 is far from earth friendly, a conversation that should probably continued off the board since it would be hard to avoid politics, by phone maybe?  Your 944 will probably run fine on pump 93, if not, a recurve of your ignition should do it.

[ducatiz]

Why, oh why?

E85 cars use variable timing to adjust for the shit ethanol fuel mix.

You can't easily do that with yours.

[Dirty Duc]

Not flex fuel, but run E85 all the time?  The flexfuel vehicles are problematic because they can't take full advantage of the benefits of alcohol.

Pros:
the oxygen molecule gives you a little more power under the curve.
the bike will be less picky about altitude changes

Cons:
Fewer miles per tank
Not sold everywhere

It would work better if you had gone for higher compression in the build... or added some forced induction.

Can the FCRs support flowing approximately 30% more fuel?  That's about how much you need.  You might be able to run a little more timing due to the octane boost.  

Stainless needle and seat if available (although I see a kit for 35mm FCRs that appears to have some kind of rubber on the tip).  
If you haven't already upgraded to ethanol-safe fuel lines, do that.
You might have to do something with the fuel pump to make it survive.

I can't comment on the earth-friendliness.

[Rudemouthsky]

I'll try to tread very lightly re: politics but I'll say that I'm aware of some of the problems with the ethanol industry and do agree. There is certainly an environmental impact but much of it is due to the mob that rakes in corn subsidies and their profit model. /end politics. I like the fact that it's a renewable energy source that anyone with a stil can make.  Part of that goes along with my SHTF paranoia (more like a fantasy than an actual "paranoia", lol)

I'd probably be wise to attempt this with a different rack of carbs...

P.S my ancient creeper van runs good on E85 when it's strictly long trips and done sparingly. Mileage is about 20% less.

[MotoPsycho]

With alcohol being hygroscopic, that in and of itself makes me doubt the viability of E85 for use in a motorcycle. Especially in places that rain a lot, the vent is sucking in humidity into a metal tank, which will not end well eventually.

[Howie]

With alcohol being hygroscopic, that in and of itself makes me doubt the viability of E85 for use in a motorcycle. Especially in places that rain a lot, the vent is sucking in humidity into a metal tank, which will not end well eventually.

Good point!

I'll try to tread very lightly re: politics but I'll say that I'm aware of some of the problems with the ethanol industry and do agree. There is certainly an environmental impact but much of it is due to the mob that rakes in corn subsidies and their profit model. /end politics. I like the fact that it's a renewable energy source that anyone with a stil can make.  Part of that goes along with my SHTF paranoia (more like a fantasy than an actual "paranoia", lol)

I'd probably be wise to attempt this with a different rack of carbs...

P.S my ancient creeper van runs good on E85 when it's strictly long trips and done sparingly. Mileage is about 20% less.

Two non political points about E 85; distilling requires a heat source, you are burning fuel to make ethanol and you are competing with land used for growing food.  Methane from a garbage dump or reclaimed cooking grease, now you have something.  Or diesel power, as in (looking down at my feet) a pair of dies el git me anywhere

[MotoPsycho]

Good point!

Two non political points about E 85; distilling requires a heat source, you are burning fuel to make ethanol and you are competing with land used for growing food.  Methane from a garbage dump or reclaimed cooking grease, now you have something.  Or diesel power, as in (looking down at my feet) a pair of dies el git me anywhere

I dunno how most ethanol plants run, but the one next to where I used to work had a miniature substation next to it. Where I work now making biodiesel, we make our own fuel to fire the boilers that make the steam blah blah blah. In a few weeks we will have a generator online running on biodiesel we make to stay somewhat self sustaining. It's possible for a lot of places to do it, just a matter of economic viability for them.

[Rudemouthsky]

I dunno how most ethanol plants run, but the one next to where I used to work had a miniature substation next to it. Where I work now making biodiesel, we make our own fuel to fire the boilers that make the steam blah blah blah. In a few weeks we will have a generator online running on biodiesel we make to stay somewhat self sustaining. It's possible for a lot of places to do it, just a matter of economic viability for them.

Yep.

[Howie]

Basically the same way you make moonshine, plus dehydration.  
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/pages/how-ethanol-is-made
Strangely enough, they do not mention growing algae as the bio source, as is cellulose, being a food waste product.

One could build something like one of these and run grease   http://www.dieselbike.net/privateconversions/privateconversionsI-R.htm  Scroll down, there is even a hybrid.

[MotoPsycho]

As attractive as it sounds a custom build would go for around $5K, most of that being motor. The guy I work for used to run a diesel shop on Maui. Talking about the concept with him, he recommended using a Hatz parallel twin to keep it narrow.

Kinda along this line