Brake pad replacement questions

[1.21GW]

Thanks, all.

I will try to take the bike out tonight or tomorrow and see how its feels now that the brakes are cooled and settled.  My big concern is the grunting/honking noise that occurs when I first make contact.  That seems to be a sign something isn't right.  I did a visual check and nothing seems out of line, installed incorrectly, etc., wherein it might be rubbing up against a part of the rotor or fork, so I can only assume the sound is related to pad contacting rotor.



Just curious: how much more bite would those of you that know say there is between the HH and OEM?  Does it feel 1.5x, 2x,...?

[ducpainter]

The noise is probably related to the friction material and the holes in the rotors/semi floating nature of the system.

When I turned my rotors into full floating by the hammer method I couldn't believe the buzz they made.

It really depends on how hard you squeeze. Coming from the stock pads you're probably squeezing a lot harder than necessary. You need to modify your technique to be more gentle. The 'feel' is completely different, and a hard squeeze will chirp the front wheel with my Dunlop Pads I use.

Another point to consider is that not all pads are created equally. You might find a different brand more to your liking, or maybe you'll always prefer a less aggressive compound.

[1.21GW]

Well, the good news is that they stop the bike, which is the point.  So I'm safe for now.



Next major ride for me is DIMBY, but based on Howie's, DP's, and Monsterlover's riding style, I don't think brakes will be used much if at all.   

[ducpainter]

When we stop for gas they're handy.

[oldndumb]

Read your latest post and I suddenly remembered a botched pad swap out I did a while ago. Bike did stop, but there was a weird, never heard before noise. Pulled the pads and found I had installed one backwards!   Strange thing is that the rotor was not damaged.

I know you did not do this, but a quick look see would verify.

[1.21GW]

Read your latest post and I suddenly remembered a botched pad swap out I did a while ago. Bike did stop, but there was a weird, never heard before noise. Pulled the pads and found I had installed one backwards!   Strange thing is that the rotor was not damaged.

I know you did not do this, but a quick look see would verify.

Thanks.  I'm not above doing stupid mistakes like that, so I appreciate the suggestion.  Pretty sure I got it right, but will double check when I get home.

[Howie]

Read your latest post and I suddenly remembered a botched pad swap out I did a while ago. Bike did stop, but there was a weird, never heard before noise. Pulled the pads and found I had installed one backwards!  Strange thing is that the rotor was not damaged.

I know you did not do this, but a quick look see would verify.

Ever install an automatic transmission and just when you were done notice the torque converter sitting on the floor?  Did I do that?

Might be a good idea to pull the pads, lightly sand so they are pretty much seated, bevel the edges, clean the rotors, reinstall and bed again.  Needless to say all pads need to go back to their original location.  Or not.  If the bike stops well I would ride it the way it is if the noise does not bother you that much.

Nate is correct, do not expect all brake pads to have the same bite and feel even if they are both HH. 

[1.21GW]

Rode about 8-10 miles of city riding on Monday and didn't notice any problems.  Still feel a little different than my old pads, but I am getting used to it.  I guess these just took a little longer to bed properly.

Next stop is DIMBY, so that should take care of any leftover bedding needs.

[Yogi]

The recommended way to bed your brakes in is as follows.

EBC

Fitting New Disc Pads To Used Brake Discs/Rotors

First of all, there are two different types of brake pad on the world markets which are sintered copper alloy or organic types. The sintered types are of course much harder and take 3-5 times longer to bed in GEOMETRICALLY to any hollow areas or ridges on a worn brake rotor. Organic pads being slightly softer bed in more quickly but also suffer from what is known as “green fade”. Green fade is explained as a heat curing of the brake material which happens over the first heavy heat cycles.

To bed in sintered pads, drive the vehicle carefully allowing extra braking distance for the first 300 miles. Please be aware that brake performance during the bed in period may be significantly less than you have been accustomed to. What you are looking for is to see a 90%+ surface area contact between the pad and the disc or rotor before optimum braking will be achieved.

Once your pads are 90% surface area bedded after the 300-400 miles, on a safe road, use the brakes 10 times in succession stopping your motorcycle from 60mph to 20mph to get the brakes deliberately hot. This is particularly important with the organic versions (Kevlar® types, carbon based pad types and semi-metallic pad types). After this process, the pads should settle down and normal riding and brake performance can be safely achieved.

Taken from the EBC website.

I have not seen any manufacturer other than Mountain Bike Brake suppliers recommend hammering on the pads from new. I was always led to believe this caused the pad to glaze resulting in poor brake performance.

Brembo recommend

• Drive vehicle to a remote area and perform at least 30 brake applications of 3 second duration. Use light/medium deceleration with varying starting speeds. Leave at least 1â,,2 mile between each brake application
• The purpose of this procedure is to gradually increase the temperature in the components without thermal shock, and to mate the brake pad and disc friction surfaces
• After the repeated stops, drive the vehicle for several miles with little or no braking in order to adequately cool the components
• The system is now ready for normal use

Apec

If abnormal braking or force bedding takes place on initial fitment, the disc can distort or the surface of the pad material can become burnt leaving a carbon layer which will reduce braking performance and the pad will take longer to bed and achieve maximum performance.

[Ddan]

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/bed-in-theory-definitions-and-procedures/brake-pad-bed-in

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/bed-in-theory-definitions-and-procedures/big-brake-kit-bed-in

[Yogi]

Interesting Ddan, those white papers are contrary to what  The big International Brake Pad manufacturers recommend. I suppose you pays your money..... Brembo or Stoptech?

I would probably go with the manufacturer of the pad every time, they know what is in it and how its constructed. If I had Stoptech I would follow their break-in.

[ducpainter]

Interesting Ddan, those white papers are contrary to what  The big International Brake Pad manufacturers recommend. I suppose you pays your money..... Brembo or Stoptech?

I would probably go with the manufacturer of the pad every time, they know what is in it and how its constructed. If I had Stoptech I would follow their break-in.

The stoptech method works for DP pads just fine. I find it interesting that they don't have a bedding procedure on their site.

[1.21GW]

Ok, just to follow up on this (and embarrass myself in the process), here is what I discovered was wrong:

To recap: I installed the pads no problem.  Did 10 or so hard stops the next day to bed them.  Then rode the bike 80 miles home (I keep my mechanics tools at my father's house in the 'burbs).  By the end of the ride the brakes would start nicely, then grab really hard, accompanied by a honking/grinding sound.

Here is the "Doh!" part:
At DIMBY, DP and I were looking at something on my bike and I noticed my front wheel, my beautiful gold OZ Piega wheel that cost my $2k a set or whatever, had a major scratch around the rim.  Then it all came together...



It turned out that when I installed the pads, I finger-tightened the caliper bolts and then went inside to google what Nm to torque them.  But I got distracted and watched something on youtube, had a bowl of cereal, put in a load of laundry, and generally forgot what I was doing.  By the time I rode home the next day, one bolt had backed out completely and presumably is still on I678 South somewhere, glistening in the sun.  When I braked, the rotor would pull the caliper up, pivot off of the still-in-tact other bolt, and literally grind into the wheel.  That was the honking noise and the heavy bite.  I'm lucky only 1 bolt backed out.  Lesson learned: any noise that is not normal needs to be checked immediately.

One more for the road: