Hyper/Monster 1100 Suspension Question

[koko64]

The HM1100S model (DS1100 from 07-09) has DLC low friction/stiction forks and an Ohlins rear. As with some S model 1100 Monsters, do you think the ride quality, comfort and ability to absorb bumps is superior to the regular suspension? I'm guessing it is and not just a matter of better handling but ride quality and comfort in absorbing road irregularities. I have found the Sachs shocks to allow for a plush set up with much less suspension control or a harsher set up but with taught handling. Ohlins shocks ime appear to more readily provide both supple ride quality and control at once.
I am looking at HM1100 and HM1100S models as a platform for a DIY 1100 Hyperstrada but with a pillion in mind which could be set up for a more comfortable ride.
Cheers.
Any experience or advice regarding this is appreciated.

[Raux]

I think a big thing with online is lack of stiction.
The hyper seat is too narrow for 2 up Imo.

[koko64]

We have a customized Sargent seat. Excellent.
The S model suspension should give better suspension control when set up plush than the regular suspension. Sound right?

[Raux]

I had set up soft for the st2.
Fine for me alone. Adding gear and her left it bottoming out on speedbumps.

But the new hagon is plush and not soft to get same effect on ride quality with no loss of ride height. Suppose the online would be that much better

[EEL]

I did a lot of research on my Monster 1100 evo suspension and have disassembled an Monster 1100S suspension to compare. It not exactly the same as the M1100 Dual spark units which have showa forks but I have done all the work on the Monster 1000 Showa units (which were similar).

The knowledge I gleaned from all this is as follows:

Stiction from the fork tube is a factor in the performance of the fork but there are some conditions that really make the difference. It all has to do with how the inside tube moves within the fork. Explanation below:

On showas, marzochhis and many typical forks, the bushings are mounted on the inner tube.They snap around the inner leg and take up the slack between the inner and outer tubes. Usually the inside face of the outer tube is either polished or coated with a low stiction material (such as teflon) to allow smooth travel.  

In this design, the teflon coated bushings, as they wear, create wear on the inside face of the outer tube which they slide against which rarely gets surfaced. So in this type of fork design, the low stiction DLC or TIN coating really only plays a role in reducing drag between the fork seal, the dust seal and the inner tube. The impact is limited.


Ohlins however go a different route.

The bushings are snapped into the outer tube. They don't move at all when the inside tube is absorbing bumps. Unlike the showa / marczochhi design where the outside of the bushings rub against the inside face of the outer tube, the ohlins has the inside of the bushings rubbing directly against an ultra hard low stiction coating (DLC, TiN, etc) in addition to the stiction reducing benefits of TiN/DLC on the fork seal and dust seal.

So when people do crazy with coating their showa forks, I kind of roll my eyes. With regards to stiction, improving on a crappier design is much more difficult than starting with a good base to begin with.

If you ever get a showa and ohlins with the guts removed side by side, do this simple test. With the inner tube pushed in all the way into the outer tube (touching the dust seal), try to pick up the fork and see how much the inner tube slides out.

I'm willing to bet that the ohlins performs night and day better.

For my marzochhi's on my Monster 1100 EVO. At my first service interval, I replaced the dust and fork seals with lower stiction SKF variants. They performed better but got their a$$ handed to them by the ohlins on a monster 1100S.

Hope this helps shed some light on the topic.

[koko64]

Thanks heaps EEL, very interesting. I didnt know that and assumed all the brands fitted the bushes to the outer tubes as that made better sense to me. Shows that I've mainly dealt with conventional forks over the years. So the suppleness of Ohlins is as much to do with that as the sophistication of their valving?

[EEL]

Correct. It's a combination of all components including valving that give you that plush but firm feeling.

One thing to note however is that because of the ohlins design with the bushings on the outer tubes, my personal experience is that there is more load applied to the ohlins fork seals than in the case of a standard upside fork with bushings on the inner tube. If you slam down a lot of wheelies or go over harsher pavement more, I feel ohlins tends to leak more frequently or earlier than other varieties. I've got weeping fork seals on ohlins at 10k mile intervals where the showas would double that.

YMMV though.

[Raux]

So reading this, you could really improve stock non online forks by coating the inside of the outer tube.

[Speeddog]

Ohlins bushing configuration:
Pro - Lower stiction
Con- replacing said bushings is a PITA and requires special tools

The SKF seals are indeed lower friction, it's not a lot, but it helps.
Same with the TiN coating on some Showas.

I've been running a set of Showas with hard black anodized outer tubes.
Not sure how much it helps the stiction, but it doesn't hurt.

Biggest gain in ride quality was SBK cartridges with a softened shim stack.
Comp and rebound adjustments are totally separate, and the valve body is good.

I've found more of a correlation between leaking/weepy seals and the TiN coated sliders than just Ohlins.
My theory is that they're so smooth that they don't wear the seals at all.
So any damage to the sealing lip stays, rather than slowly being ground smooth again by the slightly rougher chrome legs.

[koko64]

Thanks you blokes.