custom setup non adj showas vs. sbk swap

[kingmoochr]

Im having a bit of a quandry. Ive got a 97 M750 with showas that need some love for me. I picked up a sbk front end (forks, triples, axle, speedo) for 350 locally. Problem is im probably looking at another 3-400 dollars to finally be able to install them (upper triple since sbk wont work, clip ons, bearings, fender, and having the sbk forks resprung and freshened up). This is a mostly city/country road bike, I dont ever plan on having it at a track, and I dont expect to lose or gain more than 10lbs for quite some time. Is the swap REALLY worth 750-800 dollars on an old salvage titled 750? Will they produce performance that couldnt possibly be matched by a set of properly valved/sprung non adjustables?

[kingmoochr]

really? no one has any insight on this? that blows.

[the_Journeyman]

I've got a '99 M750 that came with non-adjustable Marzoochi forks.  I simply changed the oil & springs in the front and it made a big difference.  It got rid of the brake dive and made the bike a bit more stable.  I picked up a new Hyperpro spring kit on e-bay for $90 that included a rear spring as well.  It was actually for a M900, but the springs were same diameter.  Mine was originally a dark, so it was way undersprung, as most tend to be ~

JM

[Markus]

This spring we picked up a '96 900SS/CR with the non-adjustable Marzzochi forks. They were real junk, but rather than invest in a new set of forks we had the Marzzochis rebuilt with Racetech springs and oil. The difference is night and day... a whole new-feeling bike. I had a suspension shop do the rebuild and total cost came in at $220 including labour. Much better than the new/used set of adjustable forks, and much easier than a SBK swap.

If your bike is going to stay on the street, I'd say just have your non-adjustable Showas rebuilt and resprung. It'll be a lot less money and much less effort on your part.

[Norm]

The Showas you have are not bad forks (not great either), but the SBK forks are better stock than modified 41 non adjustable ones. If you take your top triple to a machine shop you should be able to get it bored for about $60, then just shim the lower. You can also use your exsisting wheel with a few mods, but in the end it'll be better to sell yours & get a 25mm axle wheel.

[He Man]

theres also loaads of info iif you searched this topic was discussed atleast 3 times in the past few months

[killerniceguy]

I am in the same boat.  I have a S2R800 with non adjustable 50-54mm forks.  I picked up a set of 749 adjustable SBK forks for it and have been fence sitting on this for while.  To make the stock forks (and rear shock) right for street and light track night riding will require them to re sprung and the valves/oil changed for a 220lbs guy (me) not the 150lbs Italian guy Ducati had in mind.  I have been quoted about $1000 for the whole pakage including fine tuning from the local suspension wizard.  This would provide as good as it gets setup for the nonadjustable variety found on the S2R800.  However, the same problem exsist for the SBK forks.  They are way under sprung for a guy my weight, so in addition to the spring /alve job I would have to mess with the stock triple and to do it right replace it with a speedymoto or something similar.  This would go way beyond the $1000. 

So the question is...Is the $$$ required to make the SBK forks right and the gain of adjustability worth it for a guy who might never adjust his forks or be in an environment where he might notice or even know how to adjust his forks?

KNG

[Privateer]

Why not just get the right springs for the un-adjustable forks and see if that is "good enough" for you.  If you decide it isn't, then you go through with the sbk fork swap.  The springs should have a pretty good resale, even I am going to be doing this same change myself very soon.  And if you can't sell them, at least you're only out a couple hundred on the springs instead of a thousand on the sbk forks which you might never use to their potential.

That's my 2 cents at least.


Andy

[stopintime]

You can search my topics to find the material you need - from a while back.

All I know is that at 220 we NEED to do something, because the S2R 800 43 mm Marzocchi is worthless/dangerous for us. (rear as well)

I'm not racing my bike, but I can feel the difference between worthless and good street/track day suspension. None of the work will be done by me by myself - wish I could, but I can't (not yet anyway). At this point I'm happy to have narrowed it down to two alternatives:

1. New springs and valves, maybe another oil and shims. No way over $500 including labour.
2. Matris cartridge, 3 way adjustable, includes customized springs and valves. About $1,000 plus a guru to make it work for me on my bike.

If I can afford the price tag I want the Matris, but I know that even with the first alternative my bike will, as several people have told me, not just be better - it will be a new bike.

Have in mind this is how I see it - for me. Others will have, and choose, different ways of dealing with this issue.

[kingmoochr]

theres also loaads of info iif you searched this topic was discussed atleast 3 times in the past few months

no, it hasn't. Plenty on the swap nothing comparing the two

[stopintime]

no, it hasn't. Plenty on the swap nothing comparing the two

Not an "expert", but I have been following these issues and posts for a year -  educating myself theoretically. I have also tested stock S2R 1000 and HyperMotard. The suspension on these bikes aren't supposed to be good enough for demanding/experienced riders. They were not set up for me, but a hell of a lot better anyway. I have been bugging every experienced rider/mechanic I have met AND consulted two "gurus".

With new springs and valves your/my bike will be stunningly much better.

My image of this situation is, on a scale from 1 to 10:
busted forks = 0 
stock S2R 800 for 220 rider = 3
customized internals = 6
"the swap" = 7 or 8
SuperDuper track bike = 10

I strongly believe I'm quite close to the "truth" here, but as always someone might be able to correct me or to question my knowledge. That's only fair and understandable. Just thought I'd say what my perception is.

[He Man]

no, it hasn't. Plenty on the swap nothing comparing the two

Look for stopintime's thread. There is good information in it regarding respringing his forks. Ive posted a bunch of topics about how good my showa forks were after a respring and revalve, norm has just posted a few days about which SBK fork is actually better (20mm vs 25mm internals). Its been a hot topic this season.

Stopintime, you pretty much have it right, but it isnt worth re valving your fork since its a shady fork to begin with.

[stopintime]

Stopintime, you pretty much have it right, but it isnt worth re valving your fork since its a shady fork to begin with.

"Shady" is a kind way to put it  Maybe you could help me understand a little more: I thought the forks were more or less an empty tube. How can one empty tube be better than the other? I realize that there is probably more to it ....

(If we're talking about brakes - that's taken care of. Or, more correctly, a plan is on the table.)

[Norm]

There is no substitute or better mod than good suspension. Buy the best you can afford, it will make you a faster & safer rider. Every bike I send out now has Ohlins suspension, but prior to that we ALWAYS used the 43mm SBK forks in a variety of configurations. I wouldn't equip a bike with 41mm Showas or 40mm Marchesini(sp).........ever.

[kingmoochr]

it seems the fork gambit has been run in this thread. the showas i have are the 50/54's and the sbks are the 53/53. i know the smaller showas and marchozzis arent worth their weight in shit, but can something respectable be done to the 50/54 showas in comparison to the sbks? itll never be on a track, and probably wont even have much twisty duty after next spring. all in all, im looking at about a 1000 dollar investment against a what, 3-400 one max? im just trying to figure out if that could be considered reasonable for this bike and its intended use. thanks.