The 3 Gun Cabinet

[ducatiz]

that sure beats the $900.00 RRA

talk to me about the pro/con of the 1 in 7 twist over the 1 in 9

depends on which 5.56 ammo you are using.

if you are using 55 gr SS109, the twist should be 1:12, but for various reasons the 1:9 and 1:7 are used with good effect with the heavier ball currently used (62 gr).

the main advantage of the 1:7 is for the M4 barrel which is 14" of rifling.  but mainly for heavier (>60gr) projectiles.

[COWBOY]

Forgive my newb question here I am certainly no gunsmith.    I thought the advantage of 1 in 7 was that it spun faster and enabled using heavier ammo with better effect?   Why would you want to use 1 in 12 as opposed to it?

[Sinister]

Why would you want to use 1 in 12 as opposed to it?

Note that he mentioned a 55-grain bullet with regard to the 1:12 twist.  With greater bullet weight (65-gr, etc.), a 1:7 (in M4 barrel lengths) or 1:9 is preferred.

[ducatiz]

Forgive my newb question here I am certainly no gunsmith.    I thought the advantage of 1 in 7 was that it spun faster and enabled using heavier ammo with better effect?   Why would you want to use 1 in 12 as opposed to it?

Depends on the projectile weight.  55 is the old weight, 63 is the new, so the SP1's had a 1:14 turn with a 55 gr projectile, but now the issue is 63 gr with a 1:7 or 1:9 turn depending on the barrel (M16 vs M4 etc)

Note that he mentioned a 55-grain bullet with regard to the 1:12 twist.  With greater bullet weight (65-gr, etc.), a 1:7 (in M4 barrel lengths) or 1:9 is preferred.

...what he said..

[c_rex]

so is there some sort of "optimal" algorithm for gm/twist?

[ducatiz]

so is there some sort of "optimal" algorithm for gm/twist?

no

it is a function of your projectile, powder load, broach depth and probably a dozen other things you'll never figure out even with the best voodoo.

trial and error.  if you reload, then you can tune your ammo for your twist, but generally it's better to have a slower twist with a lighter projectile and faster (and hotter) with heavier.

[Mother]

Matching calibers defeats the purpose.

in the case of .357 or .44

it means only having to find, purchase, and carry one type of brass

and

can be used to effect in both the short and medium range catagory

note however that in my area, a shot farther thn 150yds is highly unlikely so the pistol chambered carbines are a viable option over the .06 or .308

[Mother]

Depends on the projectile weight.  55 is the old weight, 63 is the new, so the SP1's had a 1:14 turn with a 55 gr projectile, but now the issue is 63 gr with a 1:7 or 1:9 turn depending on the barrel (M16 vs M4 etc)


...what he said..

is the new 62gr round having any more single shot effect over the old 55gr round?

or has Irag made it more and more clear that a .30 cal bullet is worth the weight to carry?

[iDuc]

Some of you people know entirely too much about guns and ammo.

[Sinister]

is the new 62gr round having any more single shot effect over the old 55gr round?

or has Irag made it more and more clear that a .30 cal bullet is worth the weight to carry?

A bro-in-the-know says he's tired of shooting people and not having them die.  He recommends the .308, highly.

iDuc - Your post makes absolutely no sense to me. 

[iDuc]

My threat level is minimal, and I'm in the 'burbs so the houses are fairly close together. An AR-15 or such would be way over-penetrating for the neighborhood. I'm going old school: a 1911 .45 with HydraShok frangible loads,  a Remington Model 870 12 gauge with .00 buckshot,  and something small and lightweight to carry if necessary ( with proper permits, of course): .38 Special wheelgun??

[Sinister]

My threat level is minimal, and I'm in the 'burbs so the houses are fairly close together. An AR-15 or such would be way over-penetrating for the neighborhood. I'm going old school: a 1911 .45 with HydraShok frangible loads,  a Remington Model 870 12 gauge with .00 buckshot,  and something small and lightweight to carry if necessary ( with proper permits, of course): .38 Special wheelgun??

I like your plan.  The AR-15 is for the apocolypticon inside of me...must have one!!!

One thought, though: why not use the 1911 for carry (though not small and lightweight, I guess).  I've never been a fan of carrying revolvers, as they are bulkier than semi-autos.  A revolver is a great thing to have around.

[ducatiz]

is the new 62gr round having any more single shot effect over the old 55gr round?

kill-wise, no
accuracy-wise, yes.

or has Irag made it more and more clear that a .30 cal bullet is worth the weight to carry?

6.5 is the new AR round.

in the case of .357 or .44

it means only having to find, purchase, and carry one type of brass

i agree with the sentiment, but rarely can you get similar performance out of a longer barrel.  powder is different.

and

can be used to effect in both the short and medium range catagory

note however that in my area, a shot farther thn 150yds is highly unlikely so the pistol chambered carbines are a viable option over the .06 or .308

that's a different issue.  but having a long range (or medium) option is smart. 

Some of you people know entirely too much about guns and ammo.

no, it is that most people know entirely too little.  my brother-in-law is a bona fide hoplophobe.  he won't let his kids in my house despite the fact my firearm collection is in a room safe.  he's an idiot.

A bro-in-the-know says he's tired of shooting people and not having them die.  He recommends the .308, highly.

+1 or any round > 80 gr projectile.

for comparison, a typical 9mm pistol projectile is 140 grains weight.  a GI issue M16 round is 62 grains weight.  do the math, regardless of velocity, the 9mm has more weight to hit.  a typical 7.62x51 round has 152 grains (16 grains is about 1 gram)

My threat level is minimal, and I'm in the 'burbs so the houses are fairly close together. An AR-15 or such would be way over-penetrating for the neighborhood. I'm going old school: a 1911 .45 with HydraShok frangible loads,  a Remington Model 870 12 gauge with .00 buckshot,  and something small and lightweight to carry if necessary ( with proper permits, of course): .38 Special wheelgun??

wheelguns are useful in home-def situations esp urban where break-ins are opportunistic versus planned as in exurban.  check out the Glazer Safety rounds.  any 9mm or above autoloader is also good provided you can control it.

typical AR rounds will not penetrate more than one sheet of plaster (sheetrock) before disintegrating. 

shotguns are special and require some practice.  most of us are not used to going through the house with a 3-ft projection (unless we are exceptionally well hung).  shotguns are the best IMHO but require some planning for storage and access.  handguns are easier to secure.

I like your plan.  The AR-15 is for the apocolypticon inside of me...must have one!!!

One thought, though: why not use the 1911 for carry (though not small and lightweight, I guess).  I've never been a fan of carrying revolvers, as they are bulkier than semi-autos.  A revolver is a great thing to have around.

good point on carrying revolvers.  the J-frames are thinner with 5 rounds, but still are thicker than a typical 9mm autoloader. 

the issue iwth autoloaders is just familiarity.  carrying a J-frame is not hard but requires some planning.  you can carry your KelTec P3AT in your belt, but a revolver needs to be in a hip or underarm holster.

[Sinister]

Okay, let's dig deeper.  Shotguns: autoloader or pump?  I recently acquired a pump, but have hunted with an autoloader for years.  Thoughts?

[rgramjet]

Pump, less hang ups and you can easily cycle through a bad round.  Plus the satisfying Chick-Chick when you put one in the Pipe!