Oz Internet Filtering - WTF?

[desmoquattro]

So maybe it's because I'm an ignorant uncultured American, and a few of us are still dedicated to freedom (not freedumb, as it was imposed on Iraq by George W. Bush, but freedom, which is still enshrined in our usurped American constitution), but I found this to be a bit disturbing:

http://www.infoworld.com/news/feeds/08/10/13/No-opt-out-of-filtered-Internet.html?source=gs

Australians will be unable to opt-out of the government's pending Internet content filtering scheme, and will instead be placed on a watered-down blacklist, experts say.

So, I have to ask, WTF? Wait...maybe WTF will be blocked by the new filters. So WTH? Is this a remnant of  John Howard's Australia? I didn't think so, as the article mentioned the Labor party. The last time I checked, the Peoples' Republic of China's southern border ended at the sea... Is this really something you guys are going to have to put up with?

Sorry for the rant...filters really irk me, as they epitomize the problem with censorship: who gets to decide what's "appropriate", and how can that decision possibly not be arbitrary and capricious?

[CairnsDuc]

I hate to say this, but I'm surprised it's taken this long, It's wrong there is no argument from me there, but look at todays society, the Government makes the laws and rules to suit the lowest common denominator, to protect the stupid, and the rest of logical thinkers get caught up in the net because the knuckle dragging mouth breathers have to be protected.

A few minorities get in the governments ear about porn and next thing the Government, as usual thinks they know better and then the conclusion jumping begins, and there logic begins.....
people who watch porn, most likely will then want to see kiddie porn, or animal porn, or inanimate object porn.......

"We'd better censor the Internet!!" Block all this porn, it's destroying society. 

Then another minority gets on the band wagon, better cut access to Euthanasia websites
Then another Minority will decide it wants in on the action, remove access to pro abortion websites
The church will want anti religious sites banned, they destroy society!
And then some Government dept will want access to anti government websites banned
And then Victorian TAC says better stop access to motorbike websites, people might be having fun and they are dangerous.
And Then
And Then
And Then..........

And that is the catch, you censor one thing, and then they add one more thing, and then another, and another
Suddenly you have censorship on a grand scale. The Government panders to the Minorities on a grand scale because they don't have the balls to stand up and say no!

Censorship is like the drug problem, the more you try to ban something and cover it up, all you do is push it underground, most of the time making it worse.
People will still try to get access to things that our elected leaders will not want us to see, they will find ways around these systems, They always do.

It's insane, but all of this stuff was available before the world wide web came into existence, and if you try to ban it, they will simply find another way to access the information/porn/anti religious/anti government they want to get hold of.

It's make the beast with two backsed, but I will say again, I'm surprised it's taken this long.....

[desmoquattro]

[dragonworld.]

Had a yank over here for a visit and he loves OZ but he said we are very over legislated and dont really have any rights compared to the USA.

He said that in the States they (The Guvmint) wouldnt be game and indeed couldnt foist a lot of the crap that Guvmints dump on us!! Like here in Victoria the Bike Levy for example. 
 Its true though, once a Government here gets in power with enough of a majority its a virtual dictatorship until the next election. And in the case of the Libs and tha Nats they form a coalition and they can rule with only a minority supporting each individual party. 

I'm not intending to start a political argument here but it was interesting to get an impression from an "outsider" on our alleged freedoms that are progressively disappearing without us having any real ability or legal rights to protect. At least in the U.S. they have a Bill of Rights which is enforcable, and we have squat.

[loony888]

so, let me get this straight.
the government needs a MAJORITY to legislate censorship and restrictions so as not to offend MINORITIES and that's supposed to keep ALL of us happy? riiiight???
it's called the WORLD wide web, NOT  the AUSTRALIAN WHINING MINORITY web ferchrissakes. the biggest problem i can see is just about every country is more than a decade behind in making workable laws for misuse of the net, so rather than work at that they put a blanket ban on everything but cake recipes and we're supposed to smile and breathe a sigh of relief cos our kids are safe? WAKE THE make the beast with two backs UP YOU GOVT. WANKERS!

[desmoquattro]

<DISCLAIMER>I'm a yank, but one who realizes that "freedom" is a double-edged sword.</DISCLAIMER>

In the US, something like this would be quickly thrown out by a court because it would clearly violate the first amendment of our constitution. That's not to say that the troglodyte fundamentalist "Christians" don't try...they controlled congress for 6 years and the presidency for 8, and passed a number of ridiculous laws...almost all of which were thrown out by judges because they violated the constitution.

Of course, too many Americans take the personal rights enshrined in our constitution for granted. And the "leave me alone" attitude extends to areas where it might make sense to have more government intervention. Try losing a job or getting sick in the US versus Australia. You guys might complain about the national health care system you have, but it's arguably better than our privatized system that puts money into the pockets of executives and leaves 1/6 of our population uninsured...and another half underinsured. Something like half of all US personal bankruptcies are caused by medical catastrophes.

But hey, I'm glad it's not my American predilections toward libertarianism that made me say WTF to this bit of censorship. Here's hoping you guys stick a foot up the politicians' arses and set them straight.

[CairnsDuc]

But like every government in the world, 95% of the rules and regulations are put in place because of 5% of the population want them, it's just wrong how the minority groups control our lives.

And if they don't get what they want, they threaten to go to court after court until they get what they want and the rest of the country is held to ransom and we can't get anything done.

I remember nearly 10 years ago, A power station needed to be built in WA or SA, sorry can't remember where it was, The greens took it to court and got it cancelled, then the company had it over turned, then minority after minority kept bouncing it from court to court, and again the people who live there are in limbo, companies go broke waiting to get working. here we are some 10 years later and it is still in the courts being held up due to appeal after appeal.

Another classic case, My cousin is a member of a local religious group, they have there mass/prayer group at 5am every sunday, good luck to em I say, it's not my choice, but hey.

They built a little church in the middle of Suburbia, now at 4:45am on Sunday they ring there bell to bring people to mass, The locals who were there first complained to the local council, the council advised the Church it was illegal to make that amount of noise at that time of the day, have some consideration and understanding of your fellow man and neighbor, and they never approved the construction of a bell tower.

Well, didn't the shit hit the fan, They protested the council, went to the council members homes and protested. They protested by blocking the road outside the church (a very busy road). They went to court and claimed discrimination of religious beliefs and other crap, If the Council had a town function or anything like that, they would write letters to the sponsor companies claiming they were supporting a council who tried to crush religious freedom. After 6 months of pressure the council gave in.
So a group of just under 100 people (A minority) now piss off hundreds of homes and the residents (The Majority) by ringing there friggen bell at 4:45am, 5am, 6am and 7am every sunday morning.

Why are people so afraid to stand up to these minority groups?
I see it in American, Australian, English..... Hell, just pick a Democracy!! The minority's rule!
The Minority's scream the loudest, why don't the pollies just tell em to make the beast with two backs off and lets get the job done! They are just that, a minority
They have little to no sway and people overall are sick of hearing them yell and squeal until they get what they want.

And the one group that does win is the legal profession!  This entire system is make the beast with two backsed! 

[Betty]

snippy...

They went to court and claimed discrimination of religious beliefs and other crap

So their religious belief was the ringing of bells at some ridiculous hour  . If that was not written in some centuries old tome I would be applying the laws of ... umm, common sense - before perhaps suggesting that any religion that requires its followers to be lobotomised (is there any other excuse for this sort of inconsiderate crap?), maybe is not entitled to such rights.

If I was an affected party I would be clearly exhibiting my beliefs of the desmodromic faith at all hours in my attempts to convert people from the 'bell ringing' faith.

[monstermick58]

So if minorities rule.........................................

                     How come us bike riding minorities still get make the beast with two backsed over??

Me thinks we are getting a little precious.






                                                    Mmick

[748s]

So if minorities rule.........................................

                     How come us bike riding minorities still get make the beast with two backsed over??

Me thinks we are getting a little precious.






                                                    Mmick

We're the last minority that it is politically correct to vilify.

[CairnsDuc]

So if minorities rule.........................................

                     How come us bike riding minorities still get make the beast with two backsed over??

Me thinks we are getting a little precious.

Because as a minority, we are poorly organized, how many different governing bodies do you see advertising for membership, all clambering to try and claim they represent riders and the riding community. (Do we really need 4 different national groups all trying to appeal to the same limited pool of riders?)

Whenever something is organized to benefit riders such as a protest ride (Look at the last ride in Vic), every different group tries to have input, everyone can't decide on an a specific agenda, different groups fight amongst themselves and the very reason for the protest ride was lost.

I read and followed with much interest on Netrider.net the topic about the recent protest ride, the different groups and the reps all fighting about the reason for the ride, why it was done poorly and why the organizer was or was not an Idiot. There was no consistent message given to the media, so the reason for the ride was lost and in some cases the media made the whole thing look like a joke because no one had a consistent message or conflicting reasons as to why they were protesting.

I, like many others are lost as to try and join a group that will represent my views and pass on those views to our politicians.
But they seem more interested in bagging each other and getting very little done, or the one group that was talking to the Government seemed to be happy to bend over the table and be arse raped.

I think one of the bloggers on News.com.au said it best about the protest ride, The opportunity to present one united face to the Government lawmakers and the rest of the world was not delivered,  To stand up with one message of we are here to fight for our rights, to show we are tired of being ripped off and stepped on, too many Egos, too much infighting between the people organizing the ride, not one consistent message, Opportunity lost.