Knee dragging is fun!

[gm2]

i'll stick to elbows, thanks  ;p

[silvy1200]

i'm hoping to join the kneedraggers group next week during my first track day  [moto]

congrats bryant!

[gm2]

i'm hoping to join the kneedraggers group next week during my first track day  [moto]

congrats bryant!

i'm probably going to suck the fun out of this but if it's your first track day i wouldn't go out there with that goal in mind..  same thing for trying to keep up with faster buddies, etc.  don't ride above your head.  it never works out well.

[Triple J]

i'm probably going to suck the fun out of this but if it's your first track day i wouldn't go out there with that goal in mind..  same thing for trying to keep up with faster buddies, etc.  don't ride above your head.  it never works out well.

+1 Just concentrate on being smooth and in control, and improving your form. Speed and eventually the knee will follow.

I've never touched my knee...which is a bit dissapointing since at my last trackday (Miller  ) I was faster than some guys who were dragging their knee ahead of me.  The guys I was with said my form was pretty good...they though maybe my foot positioning on the peg was making it hard to rotate my knee outwards enough. That's how it felt to me as well. I suppose I should also get my butt off the seat a bit more which would help.  I'm not too worried about the knee...more concerned on how my form can improve.

Any ideas from the peanut gallery? 

[gm2]

your form in the 2nd photo looks good.  yep, pull your foot back.  probably get off the seat more, hard to say.  in that photo all you need to do is reach a tiny bit and you're on the ground.  how tall are you?  maybe you're humping the tank; most riders need to move back in the saddle.

you're carrying a lot of lean angle there (i'm one to talk...) so getting your body out a bit more will help you start to use your knee as reference.  you won't have to lean as much then either.

[Triple J]

I'm 5'9".  I'll try and move back from the tank a bit, as well as moving my foot back on the peg a bit. I did drag my toe a couple times, which surprised me that my knee didn't touch first. I knew I was close, but it felt like my leg just wouldn't rotate out any more...hopefully moving the foot will give me a better angle.  Thanks.

Part of the problem is good form doesn't come natural to me yet...I really have to concentrate on everything or else my body positioning goes out the window. I was getting much more comfortable by the end of the 2nd day there, but I'm sure it'll take a few more days before it comes without thinking too much about it.

[EvilSteve]

Your head looks pretty close to the center of your screen. As you're setting up for a corner, do a quick check to see where you head is in relation to the screen. If you're close to center then you probably aren't off the bike enough to get good draggage. Some people also have issues on one side or other, my theory about this is that when leaning off to the right (most people have issues there), your right wrist needs to be bent a fair bit, you can reposition your hand such that you're actually on an angle to the grip. Aside from that, your knee isn't really out that far at all in those pictures. You knee is meant to be a feeler so you could try getting it out a bit further. If you're slightly twisted back towards the center of the bike, that would make getting your knee out a bit harder. Try thinking about facing your chest towards the exit of the corner and getting your head more towards the outside of the bike. In combination with putting your foot & ass further back (as gm2 mentioned), these things may help you get better body position.

It's actually pretty easy to get your knee down in slow, tight corners and a little harder (IMO) in very fast sweepers (90mph+), what you seem to be doing is twisting in the saddle and that's stopping you getting your knee down but getting your knee down is fun but won't really (in and of itself) make you go faster.

[gm2]

I'm 5'9".  I'll try and move back from the tank a bit, as well as moving my foot back on the peg a bit. I did drag my toe a couple times, which surprised me that my knee didn't touch first. I knew I was close, but it felt like my leg just wouldn't rotate out any more...hopefully moving the foot will give me a better angle.  Thanks.

Part of the problem is good form doesn't come natural to me yet...I really have to concentrate on everything or else my body positioning goes out the window. I was getting much more comfortable by the end of the 2nd day there, but I'm sure it'll take a few more days before it comes without thinking too much about it.

you can see in that photo why you're dragging toes 

your outer arm looks relaxed, resting on the tank.  that's good.  for some the keep-your-spine-parallel thing seems to be easy; many more folks cross-up.  it may help to concentrate first on moving your head out toward your wrist.  and definitely trying moving back, if you're on the tank.

look at the difference in toe placement:



actually i guess it's hard to see there.  but my knee is flat on the ground and i still have a few inches of toe clearance.

[gm2]

getting your knee down but getting your knee down is fun but won't really (in and of itself) make you go faster.

important, good point.  it's fun 'n all but if you get the (correct) turn made really quick you don't necessarily need to drag anything.  eventually you'll just use it as a guide when messing around with your body geometry in order to pass people  =)

[silvy1200]

i'm probably going to suck the fun out of this but if it's your first track day i wouldn't go out there with that goal in mind..  same thing for trying to keep up with faster buddies, etc.  don't ride above your head.  it never works out well.

no prob! that is my first goal is to work on my form! i've come pretty close riding the canyons and i definitely know my limits! thanks for the heads up 

[Triple J]

OK...1) Head out more 2) off the seat more, 3) toes back more 

Your head looks pretty close to the center of your screen. As you're setting up for a corner, do a quick check to see where you head is in relation to the screen.

That's exactly what i was trying to do.  Easier said than done sometimes though.  I actually improved leaps and bounds from where I started during the two consecutive days at the track. The guy I went with couldn't believe it...he was blowingme away at the beginning of day 1, but I was hanging with him by the beginning of day 2. Another day or two would really have been helpful.

your outer arm looks relaxed, resting on the tank.  that's good. 

actually i guess it's hard to see there.  but my knee is flat on the ground and i still have a few inches of toe clearance.

Relaxing my arms was my main focus actually. I have a tendency to stick them out.

Where is your foot on the peg...tucked in tight, or towards the outside (can't tell)? You can see mine is towards the outside which may be part of the problem.

Thanks guys!  I know dragging a knee won't make me faster...but good form will and it's all related. 


Funny story...one of the guys I ended up pitting with was on a GSXR1000. He should have been in the advanced group, but he doesn't have his race license so they wouldn't allow him. He passed me once on the outside in the same corner the pics were taken...like I was standing still. And here I thought I was hauling ass! 

[gm2]

Where is your foot on the peg...tucked in tight, or towards the outside

tucked in

[EvilSteve]

Ok, so I typed a response and then closed the tab accidentally...

Main point was to show my form before & after I went to a track day. First pics are at the track day, last is me at a local car park where it's easy to practice (can't afford track days all the time)

Feels like I'm going fast but the video shows that I could basically have stopped and not gone much slower:


Here's a good comparison of toe form:


This is the corner that I eventually got my knee down in:


What a bit of practice does for you:


edit
Oh, here's a picture of a friend of mine comically hanging off his bike. He'd been to the Lee Parks school to get toe issues and general form corrected:

[silvy1200]

good info here, i'm taking notes!

[Triple J]

Good pics...I'll have to find a parking lot to practice in.

The guy on the yellow bike looks like he's riding on his heels. I only do that after about 300-400 miles on the bike when I can't find anything close to a comfortable position anymore!