Help me stop snoring!

[SaltLick]

anyone try sticking an extra pillow under thier heads. It works i swear.

[PizzaMonster]

Sorry.  Bad joke.  As a fellow member of the Snorer's Society I know it's no laughing matter.  I really hope it is just a snoring problem and you don't have to go down the CPAP road.  Been there.....it works for snoring and apnea but it's really pretty crude and not exactly a romantic addition to the bedroom!   

[mstevens]

i did the sleep study and was diagnosed with OSA. I snore like a mofo without my CPAP. One of my friends recommended:
www.puresleep.com
He said he doesnt snore anymore. I just got mine in the mail yesterday and will report back later this week on how it goes. I travel alot so this would be alot easier than dealing with that machine on the road.

That device is approved for snoring, NOT obstructive sleep apnea, and those are different things. The disclaimer on the website specifically warns that it's not for OSA. SOME dental devices work for OSA, but they are ones that significantly reposition the jaw (forward) so can cause problems with TMJ pain and tooth migration.

They do make quite small CPAP generators, about the size of a large paperback (without humidifier, tubing, cord, mask, etc.)

[tonyj311]

That device is approved for snoring, NOT obstructive sleep apnea, and those are different things. The disclaimer on the website specifically warns that it's not for OSA. SOME dental devices work for OSA, but they are ones that significantly reposition the jaw

The disclaimer is for central sleep apnea which is not the same as OSA. Alot of people agree that OSA is over-diagnosed so the hospitals can sell more CPAP machines. I know I was rushed into getting one the morning I woke up after my test. Either way, I'm going to give it a shot and see what happens. I was only able to keep it in for about 2 hours last night though.

Honestly I dont feel any more rested when I do use the machine- but I dont snore at all while its on. My wife always reminds me to use it at night to make sure she gets a better night of sleep.

[ducsix]

Just wanted to say thanks for this thread, and the great advice being offered.  After years of my wife telling me I snore & sometimes stop breathing at night, this thread has motivated me to go see an ENT with on-site sleep clinic...just got the appt set up for next Tue

[SaltLick]

two pillows.

[mstevens]

The disclaimer is for central sleep apnea which is not the same as OSA. Alot of people agree that OSA is over-diagnosed so the hospitals can sell more CPAP machines. I know I was rushed into getting one the morning I woke up after my test. Either way, I'm going to give it a shot and see what happens. I was only able to keep it in for about 2 hours last night though.

Honestly I dont feel any more rested when I do use the machine- but I dont snore at all while its on. My wife always reminds me to use it at night to make sure she gets a better night of sleep.

From the website "PureSleep is not intended to treat sleep apnea or any other disease. PureSleep should not be used by anyone under 18 years of age; anyone who has been diagnosed with central sleep apnea or a severe respiratory disorder; or anyone with loose teeth, oral abscesses, severe gingivitis, full dentures, or temporomandibular disorder."

It is quite clear that it is NOT intended for treating ANY form of sleep apnea. In addition, they specifically warn that it shouldn't be used AT ALL by someone with central apnea. An OSA sufferer using it won't be treated but won't likely get any worse. A central apnea patient using a dental device could be killed by it.

I absolutely dispute that "people agree that OSA is over-diagnosed so the hospitals can sell more CPAP machines." For one thing, I challenge you to show me any hospital in the US that even sells CPAP machines, let alone has an interest in selling any more of them. Further, I don't believe that there is any such widespread agreement. The criteria for OSA are pretty clear, and many people believe they are excessively restrictive, not overinclusive. For example, I have difficulty getting reimbursement for CPAP machines for patients who have clinically significant symptoms (and who feel better even during the hospital titration study, which is saying quite a lot given how irksome the test is) but who have "marginal" AHI numbers according to the criteria.

There's a lot more to OSA than sleepiness, and the main reason to use CPAP is not to get better sleep. The main purpose is to keep your blood oxygen saturation high enough to keep your brain, heart, and kidney cells from dying since all of these tissues are very sensitive to low oxygen levels.

As a disclaimer, I have severe OSA and sleep with CPAP. It doesn't make me feel any less tired during the day at all. I am confident that it significantly reduces my cardiovascular and cerebrovascular risk. Perhaps I am more worried about those risks by virtue of having been to medical school and of working with stroke patients on a daily basis. .

[swampduc]

+1, well put, mstevens. I'd love to know who this group is that's in "agreement" that hospitals over diagnose problems to sell equipment. 

[Mother]

I'd love to know who this group is that's in "agreement" that hospitals over diagnose problems to sell equipment. 

yep

and they over treat and they over medicate

They spend far too little time diagnosing the core of the issue and instead treat symptoms

[mstevens]

They spend far too little time diagnosing the core of the issue and instead treat symptoms

For the majority of ailments, symptoms are the only things we have treatments for. Most of the time we can, in fact, "diagnose the core of the issue." It's just that doing so is often completely useless when it comes to making anything better.

Here's an example: in the most common form of diabetes mellitus, the "core issue" is that pancreatic islet cells are either missing or don't function. That leads to insufficient insulin response, which in turn causes all sorts of things ranging from blindness to limb loss to death. Nobody has yet found a way to get those islet cells to reappear or to work better. We can give insulin or oral hypoglycemic agents to reduce serum glucose (which causes its own issues), in turn mitigating the more severe symptoms. I'd argue that doing so is still a good thing. On a more everyday level, there's a pretty decent understanding of the root causes of myopia. I don't give a shit. I just want lenses that work to treat my symptoms of nearsightedness since there's not a thing that can be done about the complex ultimate causes of it. (LASIK is still symptomatic treatment.)

Even more apropos, we absolutely know the core problem in OSA - it's a collapse of the upper airway structures during sleep since the muscle tone diminishes in the absence of consciousness. There is, in fact, an absolutely universally 100% effective treatment for this: tracheostomy. Nobody wants that. There's a nearly totally effective treatment: CPAP. CPAP forms an "air splint" that effectively pops back open the airway that would otherwise be collapsed, which allows the patient to breathe. Although these treatments are almost completely effective at reversing the "core issue," they actually don't very often relieve the symptoms.

One way to look at this is the patient who rolls into the ED with arterial blood spurting from a subclavian artery. That's a sign, by the way, since we don't need the patient to tell us about it but otherwise it's no different from a symptom and certainly isn't a disease or "root cause." We could spend a few days searching around for the root cause: was the knife a switchblade, or Swiss Army? Was it stainless? What caused the argument? Is the perpetrator still at large? Personally, I'd want them to sew up my damned artery before I exsanguinate and wouldn't want them wasting a moment on searching for "root causes."

For less-urgent problems, the "root cause" is likely to appear on a brief list including obesity, smoking, drinking, recreational drug use, risk-taking behavior, sex. I'd be happily out of a job if there were some way to eliminate those.* Every once in a while I run into someone who really does want to lose weight or quit drinking. Most of the time, people are only interested in treating symptoms anyway. They want their fatal arrhythmia shocked into something that will sustain their life rather than a well-reasoned argument for not putting butter on their bacon.

*Well, I doubt I'd be happy if they eliminated sex, beer, or motorcycle riding, but you get the idea.

[somegirl]

Here's an example: in the most common form of diabetes mellitus, the "core issue" is that pancreatic islet cells are either missing or don't function. That leads to insufficient insulin response, which in turn causes all sorts of things ranging from blindness to limb loss to death. Nobody has yet found a way to get those islet cells to reappear or to work better. We can give insulin or oral hypoglycemic agents to reduce serum glucose (which causes its own issues), in turn mitigating the more severe symptoms. I'd argue that doing so is still a good thing.

Somewhat inaccurate (the core issue in type II diabetes is insulin resistance; impaired beta cell function is generally secondary to this).  However, your main point is still true.

[mstevens]

Somewhat inaccurate (the core issue in type II diabetes is insulin resistance; impaired beta cell function is generally secondary to this).  However, your main point is still true.

Looks as if I got my DM physiology confuzzled after a long day. Good thing I don't treat it! Thanks for the clarification.

[tonyj311]

It is quite clear that it is NOT intended for treating ANY form of sleep apnea. In addition, they specifically warn that it shouldn't be used AT ALL by someone with central apnea. An OSA sufferer using it won't be treated but won't likely get any worse. A central apnea patient using a dental device could be killed by it.

I absolutely dispute that "people agree that OSA is over-diagnosed so the hospitals can sell more CPAP machines." For one thing, I challenge you to show me any hospital in the US that even sells CPAP machines, let alone has an interest in selling any more of them. Further, I don't believe that there is any such widespread agreement. The criteria for OSA are pretty clear, and many people believe they are excessively restrictive, not overinclusive. For example, I have difficulty getting reimbursement for CPAP machines for patients who have clinically significant symptoms (and who feel better even during the hospital titration study, which is saying quite a lot given how irksome the test is) but who have "marginal" AHI numbers according to the criteria.

There's a lot more to OSA than sleepiness, and the main reason to use CPAP is not to get better sleep. The main purpose is to keep your blood oxygen saturation high enough to keep your brain, heart, and kidney cells from dying since all of these tissues are very sensitive to low oxygen levels.

Geez- I was just reading back my interpretation of the disclaimer. The way I understand OSA is similar to what the dental device accomplishes.
The reason I am hesistant to believe the diagnosis is
1. I am only 34
2. I am not obese (just a little chubby)
3. I have been snoring like this since I was a teen.
4. The sleep lab tech said she doubted I would have apnea, and then said she was surprised in the morning how bad it was.

As far as the hospital selling the CPAP- I went to Allina Hospital, the CPAP sales guy was 2 doors down from the sleep lab, I pay my monthly rent to Allina Home Oxygen and Medical Equipment.

My AHI was/is 81. My understanding of the whole situation is that the apnea is only preventing me from getting deep sleep and feeling more rested. They never discussed harm to my health. Thanks for the heads up on that.

As for the Pure Sleep device- probably going to send it back. Its really uncomfortable, and I have been taking it out in favor of using the CPAP.

[minkman]

When I went for a sleep study, I got the distinct feeling the sleep center's main goal was selling CPAP machines. The doctor there wouldn't even discuss other options when I had my consultation afterwards. I went to another ENT. I ended up having surgery. I got my tonsils out, my septum undeviated, and had a UPPP. I couldn't be happier. No more snoring. I feel rested after a nights sleep and I can breathe through my nose. I'd rather treat the problem than treat the symptoms for the rest of my life.

CPAP machines work. I won't debate that. There are other options too.

Ken

[The Architect]

Have you tried not sleeping?



















Sorry, I couldn't resist.     Hope you get some good advice here.