Harley forum compairing Monster 1000s and HD XR1200!

[Dave R]

there is still the factor of expensive engine components that need replaced in the Ducati, but not so for the Japanese rocketships.

can you list some examples ?

[Statler]

flux capacitor

[Dave R]

flux capacitor

Of course !! the fluxio capacitorie !
other that that, any other bits ?

[NYCmonster]

What it really comes down to is that preferences, tastes, opinions are like noses, everyone's got one. We all have our reasons for purchasing a particular bike; so in the end regardless of number, stats, magazine testing, or what anyone else says, each of us is 100% right when it comes to our bikes.

I love riding and I love all bikes. Maybe that's why I've owned 4 in the last 4 years. Rented a 50cc scooter in the Bahamas and had a big smile riding that thing to death. I had cruiser folks ask me when I'm upgrading my 883 to a big twin. Sorry, it might be hard to believe but I actually like my little Sporty and not interested in "upgrading" it. Same thing with the Monster, why didn't you get an SV - lower price, maintenance, dealership network, blah, blah  . Well, 1) I had an SV (loved the bike  ) 2) duh, it's not a Monster.

[z0mb1e_DUC]

my .02 worth...

HD builds what their customer base wants, which is a very retro-centric design.  Admittedly, this is because for many years(read AMF years), they didn't do any real R&D, so that is what their customers were used to.  Ride a Sporty from anytime in the early 80's, then compare it to one from this year.  The difference is stunning.  You take an AMF HD for a short ride, by the time you get back, you need to tighten nearly everything on it, it's falling apart.  HD didn't really recover from the AMF years until the late 90's.  If anything, HD is great example of knowing your brand image is & sticking to it.  Even the XR1200 is a look back at the X-R750's & HD's flat track history.  Don't know about you, but I grew up on flat track racing.

[greenohawk69]

In some ways Ducatis and Harleys are very much alike. 

I have to admit that my Street Rod makes me somewhat of an outcast with the "real" H-D crowd too. Whatever.  Ride what you want and fill the garage with all flavors, that's my motto.

I've never understood this either.  I like the Street Rod, but I like the V-Rod Muscle even better.  Test rode one at Harley's 105th and really liked it. 

[flynbulldog]

If all you compare is numbers I agree, there are better deals out there. 

Here were our findings when we checked with a local Suzuki Only dealership in 2007 and asked for the "recommended" service intervals and alloted hours for all factory services up to 30,000 miles, this is what they told us.   Please read that this is the "recommended" services from both Ducati and Suzuki.  Most owners of Japanese bikes will admit they tend to ignore many of the "recommended" services as long as it's running ok...  Ducati's admittedly do not like to be ignored...   Here are some hard numbers that may shed a different light.. 

Last comment, what is the value of a well maintained used 2007 1098 with 30,000 vs a 2007 GSXR1000 with 30K  ??  What percentage of the original MSRP will be retained ?   

The big problem here is that the Ducati dealers are not sticking to this service schedule. Just try to take your 1098 in for the 7000 mile service and see what happens... The Ducati schedule says it will cost you around $270. The dealer says more like $500 to $800... The lower cost maintenance advertised by Ducati is a farse!

[Dave R]

The big problem here is that the Ducati dealers are not sticking to this service schedule. Just try to take your 1098 in for the 7000 mile service and see what happens... The Ducati schedule says it will cost you around $270. The dealer says more like $500 to $800... The lower cost maintenance advertised by Ducati is a farse!

Actually this whole subject has gotten beaten to death in my opinion..  As has been explained on many forums, there are two services at 7500 miles.  An "A" service and a "B" service..  both those added together add up to 5.5 hours.. The original article written on some e zine was missleading.  The hours I have shown are what is recommended by Ducati.

[flynbulldog]

Your right Dave it was misleading. The article clearly stated that the cost for the 7500 mile service was around $260 and they made it sound like that was all that was recommended by Ducati.

But I do see where they list a Valve service of around $300 that was never included in the research that the authors conducted.

Now, I'm sure the dealer is going to quote a price that includes both services when a customer inquires so the comparisons that they made are not inclusive and misleading.

But all of this doesn't stop some dealers from charging excessive amounts for services, unfortunately I've been at the wrong end of a few of those transactions...
A $1200 bill for a 2 valve monster has left me a little bitter.

[Centerline]

What do you mean, "give us some examples of expensive engine parts that are up for scheduled replacement" ?
If I say it is so, then it is .  But, no the flux capacitator does not need replacement.

I confess, though .... by myself, I started years ago the ufounded myth that Ducatis are high dollar maintainance machines.  Sorry.

[bigiain]

can you list some examples ?

The obvious one that relates to this discussion is the cam belts - at 30k miles a Ducati will have needed two sets of cambelts, the Jap bike will still be happily running it's original camchain. On the other hand, by the time both bikes get to 60k miles, the Jap bike will have needed new camchains and tensioner blades, at I suspect about the same sort of money (for parts and fitting) as the Ducati owner has spent on belts in the same period.

I guess a dry clutch Ducati is probably going to be about due for a clutch at 30k as well, depending on how hard the rider is on the clutch (some guys will be doing their _second_ replacement by 30k...)

I can't think of anything else that applies, unless you want to start talking about things like flaking 4V rockers...

big

[Popeye the Sailor]

Or maybe the expensive shim kit to actually do a valve job. I suspect the japanese bikes may just need the typical feeler guauge to adjust them.


Also while it *may* even out at 60k......bikes often don't see that type of mileage.

[bigiain]

Or maybe the expensive shim kit to actually do a valve job. I suspect the japanese bikes may just need the typical feeler guauge to adjust them.

They still need a collection of shims to swap in and out to get the clearances right, but they only need "opener" shims, not opener and closers, and their shims are not as complex a shape as Ducati ones (and, I think, they're interchangeable between different manufacturers, so a Jap bike mechanic can do multiple brands with one shimset)

Also while it *may* even out at 60k......bikes often don't see that type of mileage.

True.

big

[Dave R]

They still need a collection of shims to swap in and out to get the clearances right, but they only need "opener" shims, not opener and closers, and their shims are not as complex a shape as Ducati ones (and, I think, they're interchangeable between different manufacturers, so a Jap bike mechanic can do multiple brands with one shimset)

True.

big

The Big 4 all use different style of shims and most likely change the design more often than Ducati.. That is speaking from past experiences, hey I sound like many of you !  Honestly I haven't paid much attention to Big4 for the past 16 years but I rent out space and Dyno use to a tuner who specializes in them..  I will go ask about valve clearance adjustment procedure and report tomorrow..  Speaking of the past, things do change. 

[Dave R]

Your right Dave it was misleading. The article clearly stated that the cost for the 7500 mile service was around $260 and they made it sound like that was all that was recommended by Ducati.

But I do see where they list a Valve service of around $300 that was never included in the research that the authors conducted.

Now, I'm sure the dealer is going to quote a price that includes both services when a customer inquires so the comparisons that they made are not inclusive and misleading.

But all of this doesn't stop some dealers from charging excessive amounts for services, unfortunately I've been at the wrong end of a few of those transactions...
A $1200 bill for a 2 valve monster has left me a little bitter.

Here is what the DNA web site shows.... the claim of 50% less maintenance was based on one of the easiest bikes to maintain....  a 695 vs a 620 Monster   It should have never been construed as 50% less for every model, we made sure we never mis represented it and I think Ducati made sure to include the fine print too..