20,000km service co$t$$$

[brad black]

the last few 20,000km services we did (when i was doing the invoicing, etc) were all about $1,000 all up.  if it's an '03 onwards bike fork oil is specced every 30,000km usually.  the price of small round tooth belts varies - the 21A are about half the price of the 51A from memory.  depends on whether or not they're long time mechanics too who do all the old stuff that maybe the schedules don't include anymore, or have their own "you have to do ...." things going on.  you might find the new frasers shop sticks to the schedule per the model book.  and if you use the ducati valve clearance specs you'd never change a shim anyway.

how many hours did they charge, and were there any extras?

the std steering head bearings can go quickly, especially with little use.  i always had trouble convincing people about this - i'd get "i don't do wheelies", "feels all right to me", etc all pointed at us trying to rip them off.  afterwards we'd often get "wow, you were right, it steers great now", usually in amazement that we didn't turn out to by lying, money grabbing arseholes.   but really, these days i'm over trying to save everyone like i used to, so just let people know i thought it needed doing and left it at that.  if you want a poor steering bike you're welcome to it.  usually i'd quote bearings plus 2 hours, about $350 all up maybe?  cheaper to get it done when the fork oil is being done labour wise, so i'd try to get people to do them both at the same time.

belts - i used to write "timing belts due for replacement due to age, belts not changed at owners direction" on any invoice where someone didn't want to do belts every 2 years just to cover our arse, and i'll keep doing it.  again, not my bike, not my problem.  really, i have no idea how long or under what circumstances they'll last, but i'm not paying for someone else's trial.  i know of guys who have gone much longer than specified.  some of them have paid a lot of money for it, others not a worry.

[loony888]

it doesn't sound like there were any "extras" charged, he was told the steering head bearings needed doing and they didn't do them so why would they do other work without the owners permission? regardless of hours charged, $1000 bucks for an air cooled 2 valve 20k service is pricey. add to that you say fork oil isn't done till 30k and it's exorbitant!! I recently paid $956 for a 20k service on my S4R that included belts, plugs, shims, oil, oil filter, fuel filter, fork oil, coolant, brake fluid AND labour. no air filter as i have a K&N but it got cleaned and re-oiled. the belts, plugs and filters were all genuine and i also had all my cables lubed and adjusted as well as the efi set up, in short i got a GREAT job for a FAIR price. i will NEVER complain about the service i get or the price i pay for using EUROTWINS, never!

paul.

p.s, my 03 complianced, 04 model year S4R warranty book specifies fork oil be replaced at 20k

[dragonworld.]

Hey Brad

Do you have a preference/recomendation for the fork oil??? (M1000DS)

For viscosity, quantity. ??

[Spider]

Brad - when are you ready to rock and roll?

when I buy a bike..first place I'm taking it for a over-see is your place!

[MonsterDorf]

How can anyone that owns a Duc be a tight arse?

My advice is to change the oil, filters & belts regularly as well as check your valve clearances. Do it yourself if you can or have a reputable shop do it for you (Flywheels, EuroTwins, Penrith Ducati etc) but do it.

Your bike will thank you with a long and trouble free life.

I also think that it will keep your "whole of life" cost to a minimum 

[loony888]

c,mon mick, there's a difference between being a tight arse and putting up with being fleeced! i've ridden dukes for over 15 years and i have to say as a customer i've seen it all, from dealers who think i'm a lawyer! (no i'm not kidding) and ask why i'm questioning a huge, read $1500 bill in '95 for a 10k service cause i can surely afford it in my profession! to being told to be thankful that i'm allowed to buy a bike from them. ( another stea... whoops! dealer) we all know they're not hondas and accept that there's a premium to pay in servicing our choice of ride but some places try and solve their own global crisis within a days trade.


paul.

[dragonworld.]

How can anyone that owns a Duc be a tight arse?

My advice is to change the oil, filters & belts regularly as well as check your valve clearances. Do it yourself if you can or have a reputable shop do it for you (Flywheels, EuroTwins, Penrith Ducati etc) but do it.

Your bike will thank you with a long and trouble free life.

I also think that it will keep your "whole of life" cost to a minimum 

And you learn more about your mount and learn to appreciate it.  

Showing my age here, but all the people I used to ride around with all used to fettle their own bikes and we all knew how to, what to and in what manner to do virtually anything on many different bikes both European and Japanese.  

And generally shops were very happy to impart knowledge and info on fixes, preventative repairs etc.

There wasnt much we couldnt do, particularly in the way of roadside troubleshooting.  

[dragonworld.]

c,mon mick, there's a difference between being a tight arse and putting up with being fleeced! i've ridden dukes for over 15 years and i have to say as a customer i've seen it all, from dealers who think i'm a lawyer! (no i'm not kidding) and ask why i'm questioning a huge, read $1500 bill in '95 for a 10k service cause i can surely afford it in my profession! to being told to be thankful that i'm allowed to buy a bike from them. ( another stea... whoops! dealer) we all know they're not hondas and accept that there's a premium to pay in servicing our choice of ride but some places try and solve their own global crisis within a days trade.


paul.

Gotta agree there mate. Have worked in shops that operated on both sides of the spectrum!! 

[ducsport]

Thought I should chime in again with another big thanks to all who have replied. Brad, I was hoping you would impart some of your experience as well, so many thanks. Paul, Dragon, Mick, Betty and others - many thanks.

Some more facts on my recent service experience:

The labour chanrge was not given in hours. The invoice says "20k service, Ducati (all models)....$700"
In terms of parts, invoice stated:
Oil filter $21.25 (the going rate)
Shell advance ultra oil $77.55 (at least double retail!!)
Fuel filter $41.09 (pricey??)
Gaskets and a new crush washer for oil drain plug $28.86 (seems about right)
Spark plugs $12.64 (about right)
Belts $150.70 (seems to be going retail price in OZ)
Consumables and environmental disposal of oils $20 (whatever that is...)

GST on all of above $105.21

Grand total $1157.30 to be precise

Reading all of the discussion on this, I think the biggest rip off is the $700 labour charge, regardless of which Ducati model, coupled to the fact they have not changed the fork oil (meaning fewer labour hours actually spent). The advice on the steering head bearings was printed on the invoice as "Steering head bearings need replacing soon"

I suppose this is what you get living in a regional centre (Wollongong), where we don't have the choice of multiple outlets like Sydney. I like to support local businesses and dealers, because without support they will leave and then we will have nothing. After this experience my local loyalty is pretty well gone.

I will be mostly DIY from now onwards, and going to Sydney for the rest. Penrith is a nice ride anyway....

Ty

 

[brad black]

spider - jan 19th ish hopefully.

fork oil - 5wt, std height at a guess.  replace the springs to suit your weight.

[loony888]

you're pretty liberal about knowing what goes through bevans mind there brad! i dunno about whether he wants out or not but he recently invested in new premises with a full refurbishment, yes he's a one man show, but from what i've seen maybe that's because he can't find someone who shares his dedication to the job. each job, no matter how large or small gets the same attention, that and the fact he's on his own would partly explain his 8 week wait on services, the rest of it would be that he's good at his job. what he makes from his business is nobodies concern but his but the usual signs of an unhappy owner, high prices, poor workmanship, grubby premises, bad attitude etc. aren't there so i reckon he'll be around for a while yet, i hope so anyway.
   Now that you're running your own shop and face the realities involved with keeping the wolves from the door week in and week out i can understand you're trying to get potential customers to accept higher servicing costs as normal, i'm sure you would like everyone to just cough up what you expect, problem is, there are others doing a good job for a more sensible price, eurotwins and flywheels to name just two, in the end i guess it comes down to choice, maybe there's little competition near you? remember though, you're not a dealership anymore......or are you?

paul.

[goldFiSh]

I see your point of view Paul, but don't forget to consider that there are many factors which set the price:
- overheads, including wages, rent, stock on the shelf etc etc
- what margin and profit you need to make to keep happy.
there's just two big ones as examples!

Just the overheads alone could have large differences in costs. Rent will vary not only with the city you're in but the location in the city. Location is often dictated by availability, cost, competition and the like. Same goes for staff, it's about supply and demand - good staff are hard to find, and when you find them you have to retain them, which is about remunerating and rewarding them. If you're a good mechanic with a sound knowledge of ducs, then chances are you are either working for a reputable dealer or working for a specialist shop. I'd hazard a guess that you'd make less working for the dealers (perhaps that's a generalisation). If you're a one man band, then that part is an easier solve but now its harder to find enough hours in the day to be the mechanic, business owner, accounts dept, purchasing officer, salesman and all the other hats you need to wear.

There's the saying about the value triangle - with the thee corners of the triangle being cost, quality and speed. You can take your pick of any two, but can't have all three. The three companies you've mentioned are all reputable specialist shops (or about to be in Brad's case!) in three very different markets, so I would expect some differences in where they see their value pitch. Now what would make it interesting is if all three were in the same city, not for their businesses, but for us as clients. Imagine the choice you would have!

You've mentioned an 8 week wait with Bevan, so it seems clear where he's pitched his value - with more of an emphasis on quality and cost. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I'm sure he's had to accept the fact that not all customers are like you and are prepared to wait 2 months for a service booking. Around xmas Flywheels was inundated with work, and with 1 mechanic down, were accepting no further bookings. I'm sure Ron faced the same reality that some customers would go elsewhere when faced with a long wait period.

FWIW, I just had my 20K done at Flywheels, and the costs were on par with Brad's comments. They took my bike immediately and it was ready within the week, so I'm satisfied that I got value.

Anyways all good discussions, and I wish all three companies all the very best in making their businesses a success, however they choose to measure it 

[melvin]

just picked up mine '05 S2R 800cc from Gowanloch after having a 20K service done




$1.049.00

[loony888]

well that's heading in the right direction at least, it's $108 cheaper than ducsport's bill. did they do fork oil melvin?
gowanlochs eh? i thought you had ron at flywheels do your work?

paul.

[melvin]

ron was busy; apparently booked out till mid feb so waiting that long wasn't an option
...............on the other hand. i've called Gowanloch's wednesday, brought the bike thursday arvo and the bike was ready for collection friday