Build A Garage...cheaply

[RB]

Very interesting stuff.

I have been planning to put up a garage for a little while now but I will stick to "conventional" construction, i.e. slab floor, cinder block walls, etc.  I have been looking at the radiant heating options for a while too, but I am not convinced running hot water is the best way -- one of the solutions runs hot OIL and can use almost any heat source -- the oil system is sealed and a pump pushes the oil thru a coil which can be in a furnace fired by NG, LPG, oil, or even wood.  temperature control is set by a tempering mechanism (a reservoir of un-heated oil) and the speed of the pump.

this will be a conventional build(stick build), unless i can take down a barn to salvage the wood...preferred rather then buying new, but budget is going to dictate this.
I am going to run the tubing for radiant floor heat, because once the slab is in there is no running the tubing later. Does oil work better the water, or the corn syrup stuff? I don't have a clue, and can't afford either system, but i can afford the tubing for the future upgrade.
the heating system for now will be a used wood stove, then eventually something that i could leave on all the time to keep the space tolerable.

[ducatiz]

I don't know enough about it to tell you and the system I read about was in Germany, so it may not even be available here -- they did not use plastic (PEX,polybutelyne) tubes, they used some kind of coated metal (non ferrous because of spalling).

But apparently it worked very well since it did not have any internal corrosion and was low pressure with only a pump as a moving part.

if you are interested, you better start reading up!

[RB]

i have a good friend that runs an HVAC shop,i think that, coupled with some internets research, should prove fruitful.

[lauramonster]

+1 on the radiant floor heat (if you're going to be in the garage most of the time).  Remember - radiant floor heat is different from traditional heat.  It heats the slab (which takes longer) and slowly warms the room.  So it's not the best heat if you're working for a couple of hours and want to crank the heat just for the time you're in the garage.  It is great if it's going to become your workspace.

more electric than you could possible imagine.  Everything is electric, and next thing you know all the tools, tv, radio, toaster, cellphone charger, computer,  will be blowing a circuit.  hubby suggested the garage should have it's own power supply.  He also suggested running conduit in case you want to later pull a line for something later.  Also he liked the idea of floor plugs (not me - I'd end up spilling a drink in there and have a short.  BZZZZ!!!BZZZZZ!!).
I like when they run the electric lines along the top of the workbench so you have a plug every 6 - 12 inches.

[RB]

ok, so i  have been obsessing about this project, i am now calling it a shop, garage is misleading when i talk to my friends.

So, what is the cheapest method to putting a roof on this thing?  Stick build, truss, metal roof (no sheathing) or some alternative using reclaimed aircraft wings. I am not concerned with looks, and the roof really only needs to last 5years, because it will get an overhaul before then....well that is the plan.

If i didn't mention it before the dimensions of the shop will be 24' by 30', the roof will need to span the 24' length(no columns). I don't mind having an i-beam support, but i don't know if that makes sense or not.

thanks
RB

[bluemoco]

Planning to have this roof in place for only 5 years could be problematic with your building inspector.  Whatever you do on the roof for the first 5 years will have to be pretty sound.

I don't know about what it's like where you live, but if I pull a building permit here, the inspectors will be certain that my structure meets all the codes.  They won't have any sympathy for me if I promise that the roof will be rebuilt in 5 years' time.    Inspectors have heard ALL these stories before...  

Not trying to lecture - just be mindful that building inspectors are unlikely to bend rules for you...  

[Bun-bun]

For any roof over 16', I suggest engineered trusses.  Cost is slightly higher than stick built, but it's not that much higher, and they come with wind, span, and load data that you can show your inspector. You can specify a storage space, and they deliver to your site(which is a blessing when you're talking about lumber over 16' in langth).
On the electric, stay away from floor plugs. You need to be ablt to clean the shop floor, and it's a lot easier to do a final cleanup with a hose. Floor plugs also tend to trap sawdust. I ran a 20a circuit along a roof rafter, and plugged in a cord reel which I attached to the rafter. When I need power for a floor saw, power planer, etc. I just pull the cord down, and plug in.

[ducatiz]

I ran a 20a circuit along a roof rafter, and plugged in a cord reel which I attached to the rafter. When I need power for a floor saw, power planer, etc. I just pull the cord down, and plug in.

cord reels are the way to go.  run a 30 amp line with several 15 amp cord reels. 

[RB]

thanks for the info. The electric will NOT be in my original design for the building since i would have to hire an electrician to fulfill the permit requirements.
The 5 year roof idea, i know th inspector isn't going to let me slide, i was asking because from what i have read, unless you install a floating metal roof system, you will need to replace the metal roof in ten years. The heating and cooling of the metal roof creates issues over time which is why the floating system is more $$$.

[Langanobob]

The 5 year roof idea, i know th inspector isn't going to let me slide, i was asking because from what i have read, unless you install a floating metal roof system, you will need to replace the metal roof in ten years. The heating and cooling of the metal roof creates issues over time which is why the floating system is more $$$.

Dunno where this piece of info came from?  I live in a high fire hazard area and there are lots of conventional metal roofs here that are a lot more than 10 years old and doing fine.

A few suggestions and also things I'd do differently if I built my shop over again:

I agree with the radiant flooring heat - I didn't do it because of the initial expense of running the tubing and dang is it cold in there sometimes.
Make the ceiling joists strong enough to support a lot of stuff you might want to store in the attic space, even if it is small.
Place windows to pick up some solar energy from the winter sun.
No matter how big you build it, it will be too small, so build it as big as you possibly can and if you have the space plan it  for future expansion. Can you go two storeys?
If you are thinking of adding plumbing later, run some pipes in the concrete floor slab.  If it's an inspector issue you can hide the stub ends just an inch below the surface of the concrete and he/she will not know they're there.  Just make sure you very carefully map their location.  It's a great help just having a sink.
For a shop I think a concrete floor is the way to go. 
Build it as good as you can, don't cut too many corners due to a tight budget and it will pay off. I think that no matter how you try to build it, there will be some surprise costs and it will  be a lot more expensive than you think, plus it will take longer to finish than you think.  I ended up getting a relatively small loan at a good rate and it has worked out pretty good.
I don't have a permitting issue with electricity since we're "allowed" to do our own work here, but electricity is important and if you can find a cooperative electrician and do most of the work yourself and have him finish it, it might not be prohibitively expensive?   Make sure you have enough panel capacity for future expansion like say a 5 HP compressor and a welder.
Pour a slab out front of the shop,  it's a good place to work on things in the summer.
Don't know where your neighbors are, if any, but sound insulation on their side might be a good idea.  It sometimes cramps my style when I want to hammer on something at 3AM and think of the neighbors.  They haven't complained yet, but...

[lauramonster]

and if you have a little extra money - put in extra stone below the footing.  Water has more room it fill up before it starts running into the shop.

Trusses are great - better look into if you need a crane to install.  Our builder told us that by the time he paid for the crane and waited for the trusses, it was quicker to frame it and the labor for the men was about the same as the rental of the crane.  Your conditions may differ - just wanted you be informed.

[RB]

I spoke with my dad last night about trusses, and this is definitely a concern, about the crane that is. I plan on having this stuff built and delivered in advance of the walls going up. Since i am doing this myself, and some friends with strong backs and weak minds, if i have to wait for trusses or stick buld the room because of money, that is what i will do.

I plan on setting the slab about 6 inches above grade, and add a vapor barrier.

thanks for the tips folks, keep them coming
RB

[B.Rock]

I spoke with my dad last night about trusses, and this is definitely a concern, about the crane that is. I plan on having this stuff built and delivered in advance of the walls going up. Since i am doing this myself, and some friends with strong backs and weak minds, if i have to wait for trusses or stick buld the room because of money, that is what i will do.

I plan on setting the slab about 6 inches above grade, and add a vapor barrier.

thanks for the tips folks, keep them coming
RB

I'd hang off on having them delivered until you're ready to put them up. They're really large and get in the way, plus there's no use having them sit around on the ground.
You can probably put those up by hand but get ready to walk on the top plates. 

[ducatiz]

I spoke with my dad last night about trusses, and this is definitely a concern, about the crane that is. I plan on having this stuff built and delivered in advance of the walls going up.

call around and see how much crane rentals are.  around me, you can get a huge one with operator for $650 for 4 hours. 

depending on how big your build is and how many trusses you are putting up, that might just do it. 

this calculator will give you an idea of how many trusses you'll need
http://www.get-a-quote.net/quickcalc/gable_truss.htm

use the dimensions of the building and the center-to-center requirements for your area/type of roof.  24 inch centers is common.

we were able to put up trusses for a 20x18 shed with truss roof in about 4 hours.  if you have more people, it might be quicker.

you need to connect them to each other and to the top, and if you buy premade ones that is pretty easy as long as you have 4-5 guys on the roof each with a screwgun.

[RB]

Right it is probably best to wait till i am ready to set the trusses, i have the room too let them sit, but since i don't have a deadline, i am the client, i won't have to worry about them until i am ready.

Hope i won't need a crane simply because of cost. I will have easliy 4-5 guys for this task.

I have the building already drawn, and know i will need 14 trusses, add two for the gable ends, and that is 16. I have been using RevIt for the last year, and am trying to get as proficient with it as i am with AutoCAD Arch Desktop. The drawings aren't finished yet, as i am still figuring how much material i can afford. That will determine the size.

thanks for the wisdom fellas

RB