new spring... and a new question

[TAftonomos]

just a question, but how much does re-powdercoating a spring effect the spring rate?  I would figure an extended bake at 400 deg would alter the rate of the spring somehow.  I know the springs are PC'd from the factory (well, eibach does, pretty sure hypercoil does as well).  I'd like a black spring, seeing as though I can't find a Ti one 

[mmakay]

just a question, but how much does re-powdercoating a spring effect the spring rate?  I would figure an extended bake at 400 deg would alter the rate of the spring somehow. 

That's not nearly hot enough to effect the temper of steel.  The annealing temperature is around 1080 degrees.

[bschur13]

Well this item is the tool I need for removing the spring from the shock but the reason I posted this link is because of another question. 

Please look here
http://corsair-industries.com/parts/Ducati%20Tools/Ducati%20Sachs%20Shock%20Adjusting%20Tool/

In the right side of this photo you can see a small, yellow, rubber bushing that is on the stainless part of the shock inside the spring.

This bushing is shredded on my shock.  Is this an indication of a problem or is it common? 

Also is there a replacement part that I can get for my trashed one?  (I'm not really sure if there is a way to remove the old and replace a new if that rod is permanently connected on both ends.  It may require some sort of magic if that is the case) 

[Howie]

I'm not sure how common this is, but you have a problem.  Ducati does show it as a separate part.  The part number 366.1.020.1A    Availability?  Dunno, if there is mileage on your shock you might want to consider a new aftermarket shock.

[mmakay]

This bushing is shredded on my shock.  Is this an indication of a problem or is it common? 

It's called a bump-stop, and its job is to keep the shock from bottoming out hard.  If it's shredded, the spring (and damping) is way too light for whoever has been riding the bike.  The shock itself may be just fine.  You need to get the suspension tuned for your weight, though.

[stopintime]

just a question, but how much does re-powdercoating a spring effect the spring rate?  I would figure an extended bake at 400 deg would alter the rate of the spring somehow.  I know the springs are PC'd from the factory (well, eibach does, pretty sure hypercoil does as well).  I'd like a black spring, seeing as though I can't find a Ti one 

WP springs are gloss Titanium finish, kind of dark.
http://www.wpsuspension.com/products/Street.php

[bschur13]

It's called a bump-stop, and its job is to keep the shock from bottoming out hard.  If it's shredded, the spring (and damping) is way too light for whoever has been riding the bike.  The shock itself may be just fine.  You need to get the suspension tuned for your weight, though.

I went and took another look at it...  It literally has an entire chunk taken out of it.  Picture if it was a dunkin doughnut that someone took a big bite out of.  It almost looks like perhaps a rock or something got in there and nicked the rubber and then it just tore away over time.  The areas that are still in place are in good condition.  I have been riding it for the last two years and I feel like to get anywhere near that bump-stop I would have had to hit a speed bump or something at a speed that would have gotten me air born. 

Either way...

Is there a replacement part?  On the suspension diagram I looked at the part mentioned above is not be the bump-stop. 

Is it possible to remove the end of the shock from that rod in order to replace the bump-stop in one piece?

[Howie]

I went and took another look at it...  It literally has an entire chunk taken out of it.  Picture if it was a dunkin doughnut that someone took a big bite out of.  It almost looks like perhaps a rock or something got in there and nicked the rubber and then it just tore away over time.  The areas that are still in place are in good condition.  I have been riding it for the last two years and I feel like to get anywhere near that bump-stop I would have had to hit a speed bump or something at a speed that would have gotten me air born. 

Either way...

Is there a replacement part?  On the suspension diagram I looked at the part mentioned above is not be the bump-stop. 

Is it possible to remove the end of the shock from that rod in order to replace the bump-stop in one piece?

I misread your post.   As you said, it is not shown as a separate part.  You might try some big dealers.  If they can't get the part they may have a good used bump stop from a take off.  Also post in "Parts Wanted" on this board.   The shock needs to be disassemble to change that part.  This means it will also need a nitrogen recharge.  Can you post a picture of the bump stop?  You may not need to replace it.

[bschur13]

I need to replace it now.  I pulled it off to measure it and it tore into pieces.  Needless to say it was brittle and worn out from the tear.  I am going to see if eshocks can supply me something with the spring I order.  I will also try a post in parts wanted.  But in the end I dont think its the end of the world if I dont have one.  Correct?

[Speeddog]

You *have* to have a bottoming snubber.

[bschur13]

You *have* to have a bottoming snubber.

any suggestions on where to look for one?  I am searching the web now and not having any luck.  Same at the place I just ordered my shock from.  Guy said they had nothing for a replacement part. 

[bschur13]

so i got my bump rubber and my spring and i am about to get my hands on a c spanner.  Today was the first time I actually measured the spring and a small worry entered the scenario. The stock spring is 2.25 inner dia and 3 on the outer.  my new eibach is 2.25 inner and 3.25 outer.   

my thought is that the eibach is a heavier spring and in order to make it heavier the coil had to be thicker, hence the extra .25 in outer diameter.  As I look at the shock I dont see a problem with the extra width.  To me it seems the important part is that new spring seats properly on the top and bottom of the shock and that the inner diameter should be responsible for this part.  The outer diameter should make no difference as long as it is free and clear of other parts on the bike (and it is).  Am I correct about all this?  Can anyone speak for this from experience with swapping springs? 

Thanks

[Speeddog]

As long as the spring clears the pushrod, it should be fine.

[Smokescreen]

There is more tot his suspension thing than just harder or softer.  If you rear spring is heavier to the point of being out of balance with your front suspension is will quicken your turn in, and also can cause headshake.  Or, in a turn, the increase workload of the front suspension will cause your bike to be less forgiving, and more likely to overload the front suspension and wash out.  So if you go heavier in the back, it stands to reason you should get matching springs in the front.

As to whether heavier or lighter is better, Racetech always pushes toward softer for anything less than track only bikes.  If the suspension is properly damped, using too heavy a spring is only going to limit how much of your suspension you get to utilize. 

Again with proper damping, softer suspension can also help you on rough roads as more low speed bumps will be absorbed rather than transmitted to you and your bike (not good for either)

HOWEVER....  If you put a softer rear on and don't match the front, not too much bad can happen aside from bottoming out easily when you take a passenger.  But IF and only IF you are an aggressive rider, and I mean AGGRESSIVE...  a softer rear can cause your bike to run wide on corner exits...  How?  Well, when you throttle hard out of a corner, the geometry of the rear creates some negative load on the shock, but nowhere near the positive load created by your ass and the bike throwing all their weight on the rear of the bike.  So.....  The rear suspension compresses, and while this happens, your forks extend...  When this occurs, the rake of your bike increases, slowing the steering and pushing the front wide....

So, in short, firmer suspension is a danger to inexperienced riders, doubly so if they overload the front fork by putting on too firm a rear spring.  I know, I saw MonsterGrrl slide past me into an intersection after her 800lb rear put the whole game on the oversoft front causing it to bottom, skip, and lock.... 

Softer suspension (IF BALANCED) is less of a danger, but a bit of a liability to a TRACK rider. 

Soo in short, you are probably better served with a softer setup overall, although one that's in the your weight range of course....  But you need to match your front springs to your rear.  When you sit on the bike, the front and rear should both compress equally.  That'll be your indicator that the springs match.

BTW, ProItalia sells the Ohlins spanner for $8.95...  Seriously, there is no reason you shouldn't have this tool...  It had a handle built on...  Not like the Ducati Spanner for our (S series) chain adjustments that's over $30 dollars, and has no handle.  You have to buy that separate...   

Hope this helps!!

[bschur13]

Thanks to everyone for the advice and 2c. 

I got into removing the shock today all by my lonesome.  I was too impatient to wait around for a helping hand.  The only tools I had for the job was the proper allen wrench for the bolts holding the shock in place and a universal c spanner that I picked up at a local bike shop.  It turns out that the eibach spring box was a perfect fit to place in between the rear tire and the frame for when I pulled out the shock and needed to rest the bike.  No hanging from the ceiling or propping up with a jack was needed.   

Basically I loosened the spring till it was at full extension.  Took the nut off the top and bottom bolts, then I removed the top bolt.  At this point I held the rear of the bike up with my left hand and pulled the bottom bolt out.  Placed the spring box in its "proper" place to hold the bike up and removed the shock.  Piece of cake.  My idea of slicing the bump stop and gluing it once it was in place on the shock worked perfectly.  Reversed the operation to reinstall and its all done. 

I guess a helping hand could have helped but it took me two hours of working methodically and its all done with no f bombs or nothin.  Now I just need the rest of my bike back and then I am thinking I am going to take a shot at the suspension set up myself.