What I hate about Ducati…

[sally101]

This whole thread and 'brand' idea reminds me of a favorite little quote.....  

You're not your job.  You're not how much money you have in the bank.  You're not the car you drive.  You're not the contents of your wallet.  You're not your make the beast with two backsing khakis.  You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.

Someone is not obeying the first rule...

[Triple J]

There was a good quote in the latest cycleworld with respect to the latest review of the guzzi griso.  Something along the lines of "at least one Italian company hasn't gone completely mainstream and still has its quirks"

mitt

You can't please moto journalists. First they pregnant dog about the "quirks"...then they pregnant dog when the "quirks" are reduced. WTF?

Personally I'll take a quirk-free bike. Quirk means pain in the ass. I just want something reliable, fun to ride, great to look at, and with a superb sound. All of my Ducs have satisifed that so far.  

[ducatiz]

And service quality... I looked at a Griso and the sales guy actually talked me out of it by saying they had one in their shop they had been waiting for a part on for 6 months from Guzzi.  6 Months of having my bike down?  No thank you. 

well, that is the problem with having a niche bike..  Ducati has the same problems and they are bigger than guzzi.

don't want your bike down -- EVER?  buy a honda.

Guzzis are awesome bikes though.  That engine is pretty impressive and I've browsed them on fleabay quite a bit, I may buy an older one and mod it out for a cafe bike, alas my garage is full... 

[ducatiz]

You can't please moto journalists. First they pregnant dog about the "quirks"...then they pregnant dog when the "quirks" are reduced. WTF?

they sound like typical people to me! 

Personally I'll take a quirk-free bike. Quirk means pain in the ass. I just want something reliable, fun to ride, great to look at, and with a superb sound. All of my Ducs have satisifed that so far.  

quirky could be issues with reliability or it could be design.. i assumed the guzzi=quirk meant they were still hanging on to their design (transverse 90 deg vtwin) rather than going with a parallel, or I3/I4

i know Honda makes other than I2/I4 bikes, but they don't make too many now -- maybe a Honda-harly Vtwin?

[ducatiz]

Someone is not obeying the first rule...

"Do no harm???"

[mitt]

I may buy an older one and mod it out for a cafe bike,

+1 - that is my current thinking also if I find the right one for sale.

mitt

[Drunken Monkey]

Someone is not obeying the first rule...

"Do no harm???"

I thought it was "Ape shall not kill ape", but I digress.

And Guzzis have always been a little too... agrarian for my tastes.

[Triple J]

quirky could be issues with reliability or it could be design.. i assumed the guzzi=quirk meant they were still hanging on to their design (transverse 90 deg vtwin) rather than going with a parallel, or I3/I4

In that case, ducati is as quirky as ever. Our 2-valve 90 degree twins with desmo valve action aren't exactly new! 

[jmoth79]

All very good points. I love the bikes but not everything else. You've got to hand it to Ducati though. American men are becoming soft affeminate metrosexual European wannabes and Ducati has absolutely nailed the timing on their marketing.... 

Clearly,  whoever views Ducati riders as "soft affeminate metrosexual European wannabes" has not seen your avatar.

[ducatiz]

+1 - that is my current thinking also if I find the right one for sale.

mitt

I thought it was "Ape shall must not kill ape", but I digress.

fixed

Ducati has been trying the "lifestyle" marketing thing for a while.  It's nothing new -- CocaCola became filthy rich after they realized people would actually PAY for a T-shirt with "COCA-COLA" written on it.

I see no problme with Ducati doing it as long as they have SOME restraint, but I can't say how that restraint must go.

if ducati's plans to keep their bikes low volume/high price works, then having a Ducati t-shirt might be all some folks can afford!

[sroberts152]

well, that is the problem with having a niche bike..  Ducati has the same problems and they are bigger than guzzi.

don't want your bike down -- EVER?  buy a honda.

Guzzis are awesome bikes though.  That engine is pretty impressive and I've browsed them on fleabay quite a bit, I may buy an older one and mod it out for a cafe bike, alas my garage is full... 

I don't expect NO downtime.  I also don't expect 6 months of down time.  6 months of pay insurance and the loan.  6 months of my gear sitting in the garage collecting dust.  That amount of time is unreasonable. 

[ducatiz]

I don't expect NO downtime.  I also don't expect 6 months of down time.  6 months of pay insurance and the loan.  6 months of my gear sitting in the garage collecting dust.  That amount of time is unreasonable. 

Suspend your insurance.  Tell them the bike is in the shop for an extended period and you want to keep the same coverage but suspend it.  Most will do it no problem.  they will send you a letter.

Tell the dealer to get your warranty extended (I had a similar situation and got an extension).

Buy another bike.

[Goat_Herder]

I have been thinking about this discussion for a couple of days now.  As I rode in to work, a few thoughts came to my mind and I thought I'd share with you.  

The discussion has been centered around the fact that Ducati has expanded its marketing and branding effect to broaden its reach to future customers.  Some of the tactics and branding choices might have been a little bit "too far out there" to the liking of core Ducati owners, whose focus and preference would be on the company's core confidency - technological advancement and race track performance.  Our fear is that, with the marketing campaign, Ducati would push out more bikes to those well-offs who would buy into the brand, for the image, without real appreciation for the bikes, therefore, soften and cheapen the brand.

Personally, I would compare Ducati to Porsche and Ferrari, our automobile equivalents.  They are all, relatively speaking, very low volume with a higher price tag, tailored to a niche market.  They all built their brands on racing success and take pride in being the on the edge of technology, which is justified with the price tag.  But whether you agree or not, they have also built a very strong brand image, or lifestyle if you will, that continue to draw in customers and convince them to fork over the $$$.  Whether it's the image of pretty boy metrosexual or the racing pedigree, I think we all bought into it.  I certainly did (how silly of me to think that a Monster can even compare to Bayliss' SBK or Stoner's GP bike on the race track).  But in the end, sales and marketing certainly did its job and Ducati, Porsche, and Ferrari are all very good at what they do.

As a small manufacturer, Ducati can't approach marketing the same way big manufacturers do, like the Japanese 4.  Ducati has to create the revenue stream by charging premium to whom ever is willing to pay.  If it takes fashion shows and creating a fantasy for people to buy into, that's what they have to do.  How else can they continue to dump money into WSBK and MotoGP and compete against the Japanese 4 which sell bikes by the millions?  

If you want to talk about the image being cheapen and soften by posers and walmart merchandise, I don't think we have to worry about that.  Just look at who's buying Porsches and Ferraris....  Racing and car ethusists?  Definitely.  Old farts, middle aged doctors, lawyers, fund managers?  A lot of those.  Suburbia trophy wives going 50 in 55?  I see that, too.  But when people see a Porsche or a Ferrari, they know what these cars are and what they stand for.  I would say the same with Ducatis, too.  I just hope that Ducati continues its success and keep on winning on the race track and keep on rolling out awesome bikes.  

Just my 2 cents.  Cheers

[swampduc]

Buy another bike.

That's the solution I intend to go with, and soon  . My garage is not yet full.

[wantingaduc]

"The angle that Ducati are currently taking is to reduce the number of bikes sold, increase the average price (and margin) and remove the low end bikes from the range (have you noticed that the 696 is the only bike they sell for less than $10k?)."

According to an interview with Michael Locke, Ducati NA president, this is not the case.
He said that he sees a Ducati as something any biker should be able to afford and get.
He compared Ducati to Porsche in this respect, and said that they in no way want to become an ultra exclusive brand more in the vein of Ferrari.

Looking at the models of Porsche vs Ferrari is a telling one. One company lives on a history of inovation and racing victories and a current prodcut line of average quality that tries to appeal to and become attainable to everyone. The other has as deep a history but a continuing racing tradition and current models of exceptional quality, performance and exclusivity. While they are both cool, which one would you rather own and drive.

While I can see the purpose of this marketing philosphy, I can tell you one thing is a guarantee. If they shuold try to make Ducatis something for the masses the quailty will suffer. The scale of production there allows the company to keep closer tabs on QC then they could at a much higher number of units produced. To step up to the level he is talking about would require a major investment in production and staffing, and in these times of constantly shifting economies that doesn't look like money well spent.

I for one have allways lusted after Ducs from the first ride on a buds 900ss in the early 90's. I rode all the latest and fastest Japanese bikes and I can say for sure that I enjoy riding my simple 620 as much as I did any of those. There is an intrinsic value that Ducati's brand has, and that is a result of the people and products, the events and things that have brought them to this point in time.

While I enjoy being able to buy some cool branded stuff, there is a line that they seem to cross every now and then. And I can understand where the argument of more stuff means cheaper bikes and a more profitable company, but it does feel like they're selling out sometimes.

I don't have an answer for to how to walk that fine line between the heritage and the whims of the market and the need for more money, if I did I would apply for Lockes job myself, but I hope that the suits at Ducati can figure out how to walk it for a long time.

jimi