What I hate about Ducati…

[muskrat]

I wish clothing on Ducati licensed stuff was cheaper, I mean, who pays $100 for a sweater?  wait a minute.....I did 
Every major manufacturer has gone to clothing and accessories to increase their bottom line, Harley perfected the game and now everyone is following their lead.  I don't hate Ducati for this but if they bottom line increases why not push some good fortune to bring down the price of the bikes..........just a bit damnit. 

My complaint is my lust for Ducs is lessening because they are starting to look like Jap bikes.

[wantingaduc]

But, I have to reply to volume versus quality.  Usually, higher volume = higher quality.  It has to by the laws of nature.  If your quality decreased with volume increasing, you would eventually have 100% bad.  For example, if you make 10, and 3 are bad (30%), then make 20 and 8 are bad (40%), then make 40 and 20 are bad (50%), you will get to 100% bad quickly as production grows.

for any given product, smaller production levels  usually allow higher production quality.
Invest in more production capacity and with it the manpower to make and inspect the product in order to maintain quality

The highest quality components in the world also have the highest production rate - atoms, cells, resistors, heartbeats, etc.

when it comes to products that are as complex a system as a motorized vehicle (bike, car, plane, etc...) more product at the same quality means a lot more investment.  When you mention man made items like resistors and ic chips you have to look at the incredible investment in the production facilites that are required to make these products at such vast amounts and at such high quality levels, ie: clean room facilities, etc.

[Popeye the Sailor]

But, I have to reply to volume versus quality.  Usually, higher volume = higher quality.  It has to by the laws of nature.  If your quality decreased with volume increasing, you would eventually have 100% bad.  For example, if you make 10, and 3 are bad (30%), then make 20 and 8 are bad (40%), then make 40 and 20 are bad (50%), you will get to 100% bad quickly as production grows.

for any given product, smaller production levels  usually allow higher production quality.
Invest in more production capacity and with it the manpower to make and inspect the product in order to maintain quality

The highest quality components in the world also have the highest production rate - atoms, cells, resistors, heartbeats, etc.

when it comes to products that are as complex a system as a motorized vehicle (bike, car, plane, etc...) more product at the same quality means a lot more investment.  When you mention man made items like resistors and ic chips you have to look at the incredible investment in the production facilites that are required to make these products at such vast amounts and at such high quality levels, ie: clean room facilities, etc.

I'm not sure you guys are arguing the same topic 

[ghostface]

Lets not get too fired up here this just a little treatise about what I feel is going on with the brand of motorcycle I love. Some of what I say may be dead wrong but if it is it's because Ducati has led me down that path, see, this is a personal interpretation of the brand as it stands today garnered from interaction with dealers, media and the people who live the Ducati lifestyle.

Ducati lifestyle? What is that? Is that a real or imagined thing? Personally I'd have to say its hogwash (pun intended). Herein lies the problem with direction Ducati is heading right now, Seems they think they are selling shoes, or watches, or perfume… you know, those things that hock a lifestyle rather than the actual product… intangible personifications of fashion that seem to permeate marketing in romance nations.

I don't want nor do I need a lifestyle identity, Ducati. I don't need to be sold - that by owning and riding this motorcycle I'm going to be associated with a hip young rich Italian/Latin crowd that wears all the latest Euro-Latin styles and ignores the best looking girls. I'm a middleclass, middle aged, white American dude who wouldn't hesitate to scrump till dawn if one of those 20-something cuties even hinted at the possibility.

OK I'll admit, a cool vintage looking leather jacket does go along with the bike in a certain way that I find appealing.  But believe me it doesn't make me look in the mirror and utter the words; “Ricco-swavee'…” And if said jacket even hints at Dolce Gabbana anywhere on it …You can keep it.

Ducati is riding a wave here, a wave created and marketed by the American Texas Pacific Group. TPG worked very hard to recreate Ducati in both marketing and in its products and has been very successful. TPG decided to give Ducati's legacy to the public; they started marketing Ducati's racing heritage. TPG dug up the Ducati history books and created the idea of the Ducati museum and had it built in Bologna. And they brought riders like Mike Hailwood and Paul Smart to the forefront of our ideals about Ducati. TPG created a man's legacy, a history of racing to be proud of, something that represents the core product and a reason to be a Ducati rider. But you can be sure - everything you thought you knew about Ducatis racing heritage is at the forefront of the marque because of marketing...


But Now that TPG no longer owns Ducati it seems like the new ownership has abandoned that wave and is heading down a different path, one with soft edged feminine logos and branded everything from computer flash drives to shoes and fashion accessories to bottles of wine! All of this in the name of brand identity and creating a lifestyle.  It really is enough to make the average American Ducatisti spit out his Starbucks double grande macchiato, strip off the Ducati t-shirt, belt buckle, gloves, helmet and jacket and throw his hands in the air exclaiming “I Give up Ducati!” “I can't take it any more!” How can we ever live up to the image? I know I can't.

At this point I am sick of it… Sick of the whole fashionista stinking perfumed and primped facade. And I think it's only a matter of time before the whole thing blows into one big gay Femi costume ball. At this point I'm about ready to chuck the whole brand and start riding a Triumph, at least those guys don't have to stop for a $5 cup of coffee every time they ride!

Would it be possible for Ducati to turn this “biker noir” image around and get back on the board riding the wave created by TPG? Sure, I think Ducati can stop this freefall into the depths of Gala Gran Dama and start selling motorcycles again. TPG had a plan and it was a good one; build great bikes and market the racing, both today's racing and the Ducati legacy… yeah! We can all get behind that.

But first some house cleaning: First and foremost Ducati, stop selling bikes through Neiman Marcus! The very thought of some ridiculous over-moneyed cream puff walking into the department store and buying an over-priced motor-icon with a few extra decals that he or she will never ride just to own the image makes me want to trade all my vehicles for an old pickup truck just to distance myself from the whole idea. Secondly back off on all the branding. A couple of race shirts, some t shirts and some riding gear ought to cover it for most of us. And last, stop the freakin fashion shows, I really want to go to a fashion show like I want …oh-god I'm starting to wretch!

Wuuu that was close… Now that the house cleaning is done lets get down to the business of building and selling motorcycles. I think Ducati is building some of the most desirable motorcycles on the planet but that needs to be good enough, you can leave the lifestyle to us Ducati, we can do fine on our own thank you very much.

One hundred percent. Things have been getting a bit super ghey. I owe you a beer.

[Drunken Monkey]

i have them all on LaserDisc, the only reason i keep the damn thing around.

I don't think they are equivalent.  a 30k car is just getting a decent car wheras 30k for a bike gets you a new 1198S plus upgrades.

Equivalent in utility. Not in excitement, actual value to me, etc.

As I said: Further proof that cars suck is what you actually get for you $$$

[ItalianHarley]

Not to drag this any further, but my opinion is that a 9K bike is NOT exclusive.  Other bikes, not just Ducati, cost about the same if not more but we don't hear those manufactures being compared to the exclusivity of Ferrari and/or Porsche.

Heck - I've seen one Ferrari in the last 3 months yet I've seen at least 50 Ducatis (and that's just in my day to day commute) on the road, 1098, Monsters, Hypers, etc.

Anyways...I still like my bike and enjoy riding it.  I'll buy a Ducati t-shirt here and there but will probably skip the fashion shows and the wine bottles.

[flynbulldog]

Hey Italianharley, Are you calling ducati's italian harleys?

Maybe you didn't hear but Ducati nixed the Apollo and the Indiana. Those may have been considered italianharleys. Or maybe the Aramacci - only by association, and now of course MV Agusta is an italian Harley by ownership only, not in any relative sort of way.

All of those things could have been called an italianharley but not anything built by Ducati in the last 30 years!

The last thing I want associated with Ducati is Harley. I find the inference offensive and degrading...

[swampduc]

Not to drag this any further, but my opinion is that a 9K bike is NOT exclusive.  Other bikes, not just Ducati, cost about the same if not more but we don't hear those manufactures being compared to the exclusivity of Ferrari and/or Porsche.

Heck - I've seen one Ferrari in the last 3 months yet I've seen at least 50 Ducatis (and that's just in my day to day commute) on the road, 1098, Monsters, Hypers, etc.

Anyways...I still like my bike and enjoy riding it.  I'll buy a Ducati t-shirt here and there but will probably skip the fashion shows and the wine bottles.

Guess that exclusivity thing varies depending on where you live. For example, in the town of about 100k where I live, I've got the only Duc (as far as the nearest dealer knows). I do however see Gixxers, CBR's, R1's etc, all the time, as well as tons of Harleys.

[Popeye the Sailor]

Hey Italianharley, Are you calling ducati's italian harleys?

Maybe you didn't hear but Ducati nixed the Apollo and the Indiana. Those may have been considered italianharleys. Or maybe the Aramacci - only by association, and now of course MV Agusta is an italian Harley by ownership only, not in any relative sort of way.

All of those things could have been called an italianharley but not anything built by Ducati in the last 30 years!

The last thing I want associated with Ducati is Harley. I find the inference offensive and degrading...

Air cooled twin, huge camaraderie amongst owners, lots of branding, resistance to change of any of the "classic" styles.


Sorry man-it's an Italian Harley.

[mitt]

But, I have to reply to volume versus quality.  Usually, higher volume = higher quality.  It has to by the laws of nature.  If your quality decreased with volume increasing, you would eventually have 100% bad.  For example, if you make 10, and 3 are bad (30%), then make 20 and 8 are bad (40%), then make 40 and 20 are bad (50%), you will get to 100% bad quickly as production grows.

for any given product, smaller production levels  usually allow higher production quality.
Invest in more production capacity and with it the manpower to make and inspect the product in order to maintain quality

The highest quality components in the world also have the highest production rate - atoms, cells, resistors, heartbeats, etc.

when it comes to products that are as complex a system as a motorized vehicle (bike, car, plane, etc...) more product at the same quality means a lot more investment.  When you mention man made items like resistors and ic chips you have to look at the incredible investment in the production facilites that are required to make these products at such vast amounts and at such high quality levels, ie: clean room facilities, etc.

Well, we can agree to disagree then.  If the 10 same people make 100 products, or 1000, they have the same chance of making a mistake on each one, so there may be more bad after 1000, but not a higher percentage versus total.  But, typically, if a company is making 1000 versus 100, they will improve the tools and methods, thus actually decreasing their defective rate.

I work in a production environment, and our lowest volume lines have the highest defective rate by %, while our highest volumes have the lowest defective rate. 

mitt

[Popeye the Sailor]

I work in a production environment, and our lowest volume lines have the highest defective rate by %, while our highest volumes have the lowest defective rate. 

mitt

+1 here-when I ran a production floor, the higher production items were more consistent.

[Carstarphen]

If Ducati is infatuated with the Harley Davidson business model, perhaps they should take another look. After a 58% drop in profits in the 4Q, HD sold Warren Buffet $600M of bonds with a 15% interest rate. Buffet bought bonds and declined to buy stock and an equity position in the company. The stock has gone up in value after the announcement but some thoughtful investors wonder why.  See:

http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/3010308

And remember, Harley Davidson builds a motorcycle that vibrates on purpose. Vibration is the enemy of machinery (a general truism). Harley Davidson riders like vibration (another general truism). No one can explain exactly why,  although theories abound.

[DucofWestwood]

The brand is an extension of the product, not the other way around.  When you hear a Ducati rolling down the block, you know what it is before you see it, and if you're like me, your heart rate quickens.  That's not marketing.

Like any cool thing (or person) worthy of admiration, people will try to attach themselves to it, and where there's profit to be made, you'll see Ducati chotchkies.  If I see someone wearing a Ducati-branded watch, and the guy doesn't ride a Duc, I might feel a little sorry for him; but it also makes me puff out my chest that much more, knowing that I've got the real thing.  On the other hand, if I see a guy with a Ducati die-cast model on the desk in his office, and he does ride a Duc, well then I've just found a common bond that I wouldn't have otherwise known about.

And I will admit to loving the Ducati-themed onesy that my 10-month old son wears.

[bluemoco]

The last thing I want associated with Ducati is Harley. I find the inference offensive and degrading...

Puh-leeze.  I don't think you're in danger of having someone confuse our Ducatis with a Harley.  (a Buell maybe, but I digress)  Ducati is simply taking a page from H-D's playbook.

Bear in mind, Ducati isn't the only moto OEM that emulates H-D's business model.  Just about all of them do, to varied degrees of success.  (ask me how I know)

How can you blame Ducati for wanting to sell branded apparel and accessories?  The margins on these products are much better than on the motos themselves.  (typicallly 3x-5x the moto margin)   If Ducati can make some $$ by building a Euro-fashionable brand and selling expensive shirts, I'm all for it.  If they don't take advantage of the brand marketing opportunities, it's simply $$ that they're "leaving on the table."

[patroldawg]

too bad some of the people Jeff has working for him (Scott in Dallas specifically) aren't the same type of people.

how/why Scott is in the Sales Mgr position of that dealership is beyond me.